Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[Aceboogie]

Damn, according to Finnish media, Oilers have told JP to look for an apartment in Edmonton. Looks like he's staying, right?

Link to news(finnish)

Naturally. Hell be on the team probably from day 1, or if not, by game 15. Plus have you seen some of the new condos going up around Ice District? If I had 900k to throw around, id be looking for a place in one of those

 

[Aerchon]

Damn, according to Finnish media, Oilers have told JP to look for an apartment in Edmonton. Looks like he's staying, right?

Link to news(finnish)

Contractually keeping him back makes ZERO sense.

He is one of the best prospects not playing regularly in the NHL.

They have come out and said he will be playing on the third line minutes beside two vets, one of which is his countrymen. He has already proven to be capable in the AHL and IMO wasn't terrible in the NHL either. Third line sheltered minutes is exactly where he absolutely "should" develop best.

AHL top minutes would still be good for him as well but the above better. The only reason to send him to the AHL IMO is if he really really struggles.

 

[McNuge]

Contractually keeping him back makes ZERO sense.

He is one of the best prospects not playing regularly in the NHL.

They have come out and said he will be playing on the third line minutes beside two vets, one of which is his countrymen. He has already proven to be capable in the AHL and IMO wasn't terrible in the NHL either. Third line sheltered minutes is exactly where he absolutely "should" develop best.

AHL top minutes would still be good for him as well but the above better. The only reason to send him to the AHL IMO is if he really really struggles.

100% agree, I think being in the AHL last year really helped him get accustomed to the smaller ice and the NA style of game. IMO he takes this opportunity and runs with it. RNH and JJ both have something to prove this year, fingers crossed they start hot out of the gate. We not longer need our young guys to step in ASAP and be strong contributors. They can marinate a bit and develop. If he breaks 50 points we should be stoked. His role will be somewhat limited but he has a chance to really show what he can do this year. By the end of the year if he hasn't taken over as the right handed trigger man on the first PP I would be disappointed.

 

[Aerchon]

100% agree, I think being in the AHL last year really helped him get accustomed to the smaller ice and the NA style of game. IMO he takes this opportunity and runs with it. RNH and JJ both have something to prove this year, fingers crossed they start hot out of the gate. We not longer need our young guys to step in ASAP and be strong contributors. They can marinate a bit and develop. If he breaks 50 points we should be stoked. His role will be somewhat limited but he has a chance to really show what he can do this year. By the end of the year if he hasn't taken over as the right handed trigger man on the first PP I would be disappointed.

I will never understand where people get their numbers for depth forwards. 50 points on a third line is Stanley cup winning performance level. To get 50 points while playing in a third line role he would have to be on the 1st PP and the line would have to be so good they would be taking minutes from McDavids and Leons lines. I don't believe anyone in a third line role last year broke 40 points on our team.

30 points in the NHL on a third line as basically still a rookie is solid. Especially if he plays a solid 2 way game.

40 points is awesome.

Playing in a third line role. Give me a 15+ goals, 35 points (give or take), primarily 5v5 and a + anything in goal differential and we got ourselves a very good one.

The following year, unfortunately his contract year, if given a top 6 role, I would expect 50+points. With our cap situation I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers leave him as a productive member of a third line for cost control.

 

[McNuge]

I will never understand where people get their numbers for depth forwards. 50 points on a third line is Stanley cup winning performance level. To get 50 points while playing in a third line role he would have to be on the 1st PP and the line would have to be so good they would be taking minutes from McDavids and Leons lines. I don't believe anyone in a third line role last year broke 40 points on our team.

30 points in the NHL on a third line as basically still a rookie is solid. Especially if he plays a solid 2 way game.

40 points is awesome.

Playing in a third line role. Give me a 15+ goals, 35 points (give or take), primarily 5v5 and a + anything in goal differential and we got ourselves a very good one.

The following year, unfortunately his contract year, if given a top 6 role, I would expect 50+points. With our cap situation I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers leave him as a productive member of a third line for cost control.

I said IF he hit that we should be stoked. I don't expect him to hit that, but if he does then over the moon I go.

In terms of the highlighted, no team in the league would risk losing games to try and save money in the future. If Chia or Todd did this (for this specific purpose) I wouldn't follow this team anymore.

 

[Aerchon]

I said IF he hit that we should be stoked. I don't expect him to hit that, but if he does then over the moon I go.

In terms of the highlighted, no team in the league would risk losing games to try and save money in the future. If Chia or Todd did this (for this specific purpose) I wouldn't follow this team anymore.

Wasn't really focused on your exact comment. I've seen comments from a few that seem to think players playing third line minutes can rack up 50 points no problem.

I believe the Flames have done exactly this to Sam Bennett.

A successful championship team needs a great third line and if they want to be perennial championships they need to also be very cap conscientious. Pittsburgh model has three very dangerous lines and many bargain deals. Including all three of their superstars. Crosby 8.7, Kessel 6.8, and even Malkin at 9.5 is a bargain compared to say Kopitar at 10.

Cost controlling guys while icing a competitive cup contending team is exactly what Chiarelli needs to get better at.

 

[McNuge]

Wasn't really focused on your exact comment. I've seen comments from a few that seem to think players playing third line minutes can rack up 50 points no problem.

I believe the Flames have done exactly this to Sam Bennett.

A successful championship team needs a great third line and if they want to be perennial championships they need to also be very cap conscientious. Pittsburgh model has three very dangerous lines and many bargain deals. Including all three of their superstars. Crosby 8.7, Kessel 6.8, and even Malkin at 9.5 is a bargain compared to say Kopitar at 10.

Cost controlling guys while icing a competitive cup contending team is exactly what Chiarelli needs to get better at.

I really don't disagree with you, you make fair points. I get that you need bargain contracts, but putting a player in a position so he would produce less to save money is just horrible coaching to me. I don't think any coach or GM would do this, at least not if they respected the team and its fans.

Pitts model is a little difficult to emulate because when Crosby signed he could sign for longer than 8 years, which he did in a lower cap era. Kessel was a gift from Toronto, and Malkin signed for market value at the time.

Fans had sky high expectations for Pulj last year, especially seeing what Laine and Matthews did throughout the year. I think those expectations have settled a little, but he is still a very very very good prospect, who needs to have expectations put on him. They cannot be looking at him as "depth" forward, he is part of the core going forward.

 

[Aerchon]

I really don't disagree with you, you make fair points. I get that you need bargain contracts, but putting a player in a position so he would produce less to save money is just horrible coaching to me. I don't think any coach or GM would do this, at least not if they respected the team and its fans.

Pitts model is a little difficult to emulate because when Crosby signed he could sign for longer than 8 years, which he did in a lower cap era. Kessel was a gift from Toronto, and Malkin signed for market value at the time.

Fans had sky high expectations for Pulj last year, especially seeing what Laine and Matthews did throughout the year. I think those expectations have settled a little, but he is still a very very very good prospect, who needs to have expectations put on him. They cannot be looking at him as "depth" forward, he is part of the core going forward.

See your bolded portion.

Produce less points doesn't actually have much to do with coaching IMO. You coach to win and individual player points are often just a confusing by-product.

McDavid was +27 this last year. McDavid can absolutely improve significantly, have less points, but end up with a much higher goal differential, and thus help the team win more.

If we roll 4 lines and all of them end up with career lows in points and career highs in goal differential, as long as our specialty teams are average, we make the playoffs and have a good chance at a cup.

Coaching is managing players/lines against opponents players/lines to score more goals regularly than the opponent. Oilers could win every game 1-0 and tear apart league records left right and center.

Putting JP in the top 6 role, especially if those are going to be hard minutes like I think they will be, just so he can rack up a few more points but bleed goals against is absolutely BAD coaching.

Oilers have really emphasized they want JP overall game to improve. Board work and battling. They have repeatedly said his offense is good.

Third line is exactly where he should start this year and be for most this year. Next year is a question mark but if we continue to win with him on the third line AND we get him a bit cheaper price that is obviously the way to go. Eventually he gets bumped up as long as he is playing well and then his points go up accordingly.... in a perfect world :-P

EDIT: I know plus minus is not a good stat, but for the purpose of my example and how it relates to goal differential it works very well.

 

[bone]

I will never understand where people get their numbers for depth forwards. 50 points on a third line is Stanley cup winning performance level. To get 50 points while playing in a third line role he would have to be on the 1st PP and the line would have to be so good they would be taking minutes from McDavids and Leons lines. I don't believe anyone in a third line role last year broke 40 points on our team.

30 points in the NHL on a third line as basically still a rookie is solid. Especially if he plays a solid 2 way game.

40 points is awesome.

Playing in a third line role. Give me a 15+ goals, 35 points (give or take), primarily 5v5 and a + anything in goal differential and we got ourselves a very good one.

The following year, unfortunately his contract year, if given a top 6 role, I would expect 50+points. With our cap situation I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers leave him as a productive member of a third line for cost control.

Only 103 players passed 50 points last year. 94 of them forwards. Considering 31 teams there are 93 players on team's top lines.

Yeah 50 points on a third line would be elite level third liner status.

2 lines of players per team is 186 players. The 187th best amount of points in the league last year was 31 points. So third players even reaching or passing 30 points is a pretty decent season for a third liner.

 

[Laineux]

McDavid was +27 this last year. McDavid can absolutely improve significantly, have less points, but end up with a much higher goal differential, and thus help the team win more.

+27 on a mid-tier team is pretty impressive. It's higher than what Sidney Crosby has ever had. The league leader had +31 and he was a defenceman with much more minutes than Connor so I don't know how do you expect that to improve significantly. He was tied 2nd among forwards.

Not to mention that goal differential on a yearly basis goes so much beyond the control of any single player that it's a terrible metric to judge anything. McDavid could be individually better next year and only have + 7 due to random variation.

 

[McNuge]

See your bolded portion.

Produce less points doesn't actually have much to do with coaching IMO. You coach to win and individual player points are often just a confusing by-product.

McDavid was +27 this last year. McDavid can absolutely improve significantly, have less points, but end up with a much higher goal differential, and thus help the team win more.

If we roll 4 lines and all of them end up with career lows in points and career highs in goal differential, as long as our specialty teams are average, we make the playoffs and have a good chance at a cup.

Coaching is managing players/lines against opponents players/lines to score more goals regularly than the opponent. Oilers could win every game 1-0 and tear apart league records left right and center.

Putting JP in the top 6 role, especially if those are going to be hard minutes like I think they will be, just so he can rack up a few more points but bleed goals against is absolutely BAD coaching.

Oilers have really emphasized they want JP overall game to improve. Board work and battling. They have repeatedly said his offense is good.

Third line is exactly where he should start this year and be for most this year. Next year is a question mark but if we continue to win with him on the third line AND we get him a bit cheaper price that is obviously the way to go. Eventually he gets bumped up as long as he is playing well and then his points go up accordingly.... in a perfect world :-P

EDIT: I know plus minus is not a good stat, but for the purpose of my example and how it relates to goal differential it works very well.

I think we are arguing 2 different things here. I am saying if they put him in a position, not necessarily to fail but to produce less simply to save money. I have a big issue with this. Now, if he is only good enough to play on the 3rd line for now then I would take no issue with this.

 

[LaGu]

Pulju will play 3rd line minutes starting the season, that seems to be sure (although training camp preseason can change things a bit). However, looking at our RW situation and fwds who shoot right I bet my undies he'll get a lot of looks in the top 6 and on the PP.

I agree that he cannot hit 50pts as a third liner and 3rd liner solely, but Gagner just hit 50 pts as a 4th liner.

Depends on how he does and how he performs when (not if) they move him up in the line up and give him PP.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

+27 on a mid-tier team is pretty impressive. It's higher than what Sidney Crosby has ever had. The league leader had +31 and he was a defenceman with much more minutes than Connor so I don't know how do you expect that to improve significantly. He was tied 2nd among forwards.

Not to mention that goal differential on a yearly basis goes so much beyond the control of any single player that it's a terrible metric to judge anything. McDavid could be individually better next year and only have + 7 due to random variation.

Oilers were not a mid-tier team. They came within one point of winning the division and a goal away from the final four. They were an elite team last year.

 

[Bangers]

While I was one of the posters who thought he would struggle last year, I think he's going to go Drai 2.0 and be huge this year.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

He trains with Raimo Summanen in Helsinki. Players who've also trained with him are Teravainen and Juolevi....Teravainen who's known for his lazy attitude to summer training and Juolevi who just bulked up a bit too much this summer and seems slower...Summanen is a crappy person, and i don't like him being close to any prospects.... I think Jesse is getting shafted hard because of his manager choice.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Naturally. Hell be on the team probably from day 1, or if not, by game 15. Plus have you seen some of the new condos going up around Ice District? If I had 900k to throw around, id be looking for a place in one of those

No kidding, though he and Jokinen should live together, makes things easier for Puljujarvi, imo.

 

[GameChanger]

While I was one of the posters who thought he would struggle last year, I think he's going to go Drai 2.0 and be huge this year.

It's also hard to say how much he really struggled. It's almost funny to read the old posts before and while he played with McDavid. At that time just about everyone seemed so excited about JP, which many people don't seem to remember anymore. It must've been very difficult for Jesse since that, as he was suddenly benched constantly and must've felt confused as a young player with no English skills. This year the situation will be much easier so I predict a better year.

 

[Aceboogie]

It's also hard to say how much he really struggled. It's almost funny to read the old posts before and while he played with McDavid. At that time just about everyone seemed so excited about JP, which many people don't seem to remember anymore. It must've been very difficult for Jesse since that, as he was suddenly benched constantly and must've felt confused as a young player with no English skills. This year the situation will be much easier so I predict a better year.

Agreed. I think people misremember JPs rookie season (as they did with Draisaitls). I dont think either of them struggled the entire time. Both had prolonged periods they looked at home in NHL. It was just near the end they started to look overwhelmed. Puljuarvi is a #1 OA caliber prospect in 3 out of the last 6 drafts. I have no doubt hell come out on fire next year

 

[Aerchon]

Agreed. I think people misremember JPs rookie season (as they did with Draisaitls). I dont think either of them struggled the entire time. Both had prolonged periods they looked at home in NHL. It was just near the end they started to look overwhelmed. Puljuarvi is a #1 OA caliber prospect in 3 out of the last 6 drafts. I have no doubt hell come out on fire next year

Many elite prospects struggle their first year but slowly as the year goes on the get better and better. Stamkos is the one I always think of. Believe Seguin was as well. Thornton just struggled.

I personally believe if we left either Leon or Jessie for a full season their first season by the end they would have adjusted and improved considerably.

 

[Aceboogie]

Many elite prospects struggle their first year but slowly as the year goes on the get better and better. Stamkos is the one I always think of. Believe Seguin was as well. Thornton just struggled.

I personally believe if we left either Leon or Jessie for a full season their first season by the end they would have adjusted and improved considerably.

I do too. Well moreso if they would have been left on a top 6 line. When rookies come to the NHL, they typically do well first 10 games since they are running on adrenaline, then struggle for 30 games when the adrenaline runs out and they figure out the change is so drastic. Then do well from 40-80 when they start to adapt

I was also fine with sending JP down. Biggest thing he needed was confidence (whether he got that in AHL or NHL). AHL is a better bet for this and looked like that happened

 

[GameChanger]

I personally believe if we left either Leon or Jessie for a full season their first season by the end they would have adjusted and improved considerably.

Nice to see someone write about this. Of course there is no guarantees, but while people talk about Jesse's difficult season it's good to remember that at a time there was really nothing in his game that would've given a reason for him to be dropped out of the 1st line. Even without PP time he played those four games at a ppg rate, so there's a good chance that if he'd remained in that spot he would've actually had a great rookie season. Of course we don't know how it would've been, but that is a very real possibility.

 

[A91]

Is he on any PP pairs in camp? Have they gotten to that yet.

I think you gotta keep Test on unit one for the time being. But if Jesse impresses early I definitely think we should move him to the top pp unit.

McDavid
Leon
Lucic
Puljujarvi
Klefbom

 

[A91]

TMac mentioned that Jesse is very hard on himself, which I suspect most young players are. Especially with the resume Jesse has. That can be both good and bad, hopefully it helps more than it deters him this season. Really want to see this kid succeed.

 

[Spawn]

Is he on any PP pairs in camp? Have they gotten to that yet.

I think you gotta keep Test on unit one for the time being. But if Jesse impresses early I definitely think we should move him to the top pp unit.

McDavid
Leon
Lucic
Puljujarvi
Klefbom

I think we'll see Strome tried there before Puljujarvi. I kind of wish we'd have 2 right shots on the top unit though. Only having Letestu as a one-time option really limits the passing options for Drai and McDavid out there.

Although it's tough to complain too hard. Our PP was pretty good last year.

 

[oobga]

TMac mentioned that Jesse is very hard on himself, which I suspect most young players are. Especially with the resume Jesse has. That can be both good and bad, hopefully it helps more than it deters him this season. Really want to see this kid succeed.

So that big smile is just hiding the sad clown within?

He really did seem to be down in the dumps last season. Hopefully McLellan can keep him in a good place this year.