Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part IV

[Peanut]

its funny because,...he's actually in the mid or in the higher tier range of every stat in the box score every night...but ... you only look at G A PTS,... oook

I'm pretty sure that poster was being sarcastic all the eye test and advanced stats show he is playing great. Its a small sample size but to suggest he isn't play well is asinine.

Well I hope they were then again you still have many posters quoting plus minus and other dinosaur stats.

 

[montreal]

I'm pretty sure that poster was being sarcastic all the eye test and advanced stats show he is playing great. Its a small sample size but to suggest he isn't play well is asinine.

Well I hope they were then again you still have many posters quoting plus minus and other dinosaur stats.

I don't follow advanced stats but I think he's playing ok but far from great. But everyone will have different expectations for him, some will say since he's so young while others will look at him being a 3rd OA.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

After a performance like that I can't see how anyone could be disappointed in Kotka's play. He's getting better every game and he's never hurting the team. If THIS is the worse he gets than we've got nothing to worry about at all.

 

[cphabs]

After a performance like that I can't see how anyone could be disappointed in Kotka's play. He's getting better every game and he's never hurting the team. If THIS is the worse he gets than we've got nothing to worry about at all.

He’ll be a perfect 3rd line center behind Danault! Finally, we have a pure unmitigated offensive talent at the center position that is undeniably responsible in his own end at the age of 18. And? We are playing him as a 3rd line grinder. I’m sorry folks! Been waiting too long for this and may be a touch reactionary, but seriously! I find it extremely hard to believe Coconut is a 3rd line center, guess I should be happy he is playing center, while Danault is our 1st line center. Ranting. Hope everyone is well l!

 

[WinterLion]

He is playing fine, but not spectacular. He still seems tentative... I'm really anxious to see him gain a bit more confidence.... well and a bit more muscle too

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

He did a lot of things better last game.

Namely, he was open a few times.

He made some great passes too and as usual, he's just excellent at pressuring.

A few things to improve: he was easily pushed aside once or twice, he's often rushing things with the puck - theres less time in the NHL but more than he thinks, he usually plays with a lot of pace but it hasnt been the case yet. I'd also like to see him continue working on his stride and his footspeed throughout the year.

All in all, I liked his deployment yesterday. I like that theyre allowing him to play his game. But, the moment he starts getting benched for mistakes or plays 7-8 minutes/game he should be sent down.

Yeah you got it. 3rd line minutes is fine. Quasi-sheltering him is fine. Bringing him around slowly is totally fine.

He's not going to be Galchenyuked. Kotka's flat out better, he puts in more effort and he has a proper skill set to be a C and he's ACTUALLY being used as a Center.

I'm utterly convinced you can't screw this kid up. He's one of those guys that are just too good. I can understand people's paranoia. We've screwed up enough prospects in the past and this guy might be the best in decades so people are REALLY protective. Totally get it. I just really don't think we have to worry about this one. Besides all that, like I said, he's being brought along completely fine. It's not like he's utterly dominating out there. He's showing amazing things but you can still see a few areas where he can and will get better.

Putting him on the first line would be pretty much throwing him to the dogs at this point. He could definitely use an upgrade on Armia but my god in a few weeks Kotka could turn JA into a 20 goal scorer out of sheer volume of opportunity.

 

[scrubadam]

Armia will probably stay with Kotka for a while. Kotka idolized him when he was 10 years old. Playing your first year in the NHL as 18 with your idol, I don't think there is a better place for him to be right now.

 

[cphabs]

Yeah you got it. 3rd line minutes is fine. Quasi-sheltering him is fine. Bringing him around slowly is totally fine.

He's not going to be Galchenyuked. Kotka's flat out better, he puts in more effort and he has a proper skill set to be a C and he's ACTUALLY being used as a Center.

I'm utterly convinced you can't screw this kid up. He's one of those guys that are just too good. I can understand people's paranoia. We've screwed up enough prospects in the past and this guy might be the best in decades so people are REALLY protective. Totally get it. I just really don't think we have to worry about this one. Besides all that, like I said, he's being brought along completely fine. It's not like he's utterly dominating out there. He's showing amazing things but you can still see a few areas where he can and will get better.

Putting him on the first line would be pretty much throwing him to the dogs at this point. He could definitely use an upgrade on Armia but my god in a few weeks Kotka could turn JA into a 20 goal scorer out of sheer volume of opportunity.

Agreed and thanks!

 

[Tyson]

Folks complaining at Kotkaniemi’s usage should take a look at how Pat Burns used 18 year old Joe Thornton his first year. I think he played 55 games and had 7 points and was a healthy scratch on many nights. On the nights he did play he played sparingly. Kotkaniemi is allowed to play a regular shift and PP time. Good with this

 

[Redux91]

I'm pretty sure that poster was being sarcastic all the eye test and advanced stats show he is playing great. Its a small sample size but to suggest he isn't play well is asinine.

Well I hope they were then again you still have many posters quoting plus minus and other dinosaur stats.

It definitely crossed my mind but, there was just so much disdain in the post to be sarcastic i thought lol

 

[Aspirine]

I’m repeating myself game after game but the kid’s a beaut. I have faith. Coconut!

 

[Runner77]

I’m repeating myself game after game but the kid’s a beaut. I have faith. Coconut!

 

[sandviper]

I don't follow advanced stats but I think he's playing ok but far from great. But everyone will have different expectations for him, some will say since he's so young while others will look at him being a 3rd OA.

For me, eyeball test agrees with you. I think he is playing ok but not spectacular. Of course, he just turned 18 and playing on a smaller ice surface in the best league in the world. So, that is impressive in itself as he looks better than some veterans on the team.

In terms of advanced stats, his CF is super great right now and his PDO is closer to 100. That said, almost 70% of his starts are in the oZone.

Anyhow, only 8 games in. We’ll see how it goes through the season.

 

[Shabs]

He needs to work on his shot. I suspect he needs to put on some muscle, but I find he takes too long to get his shot off.

 

[Hostile Offer]

I mean Armia was part of a damm good shutdown line in Winnipeg with Lowry, if you think Danault is Montreals Lowry try pairing them and give more offensive wingers for Kotka.

You use them to play the heavy defensive minutes and let Kotka go offense with Gallagher.

Danault and Armia seem like they could really hack it together. Swap Danault and Kotka and I think both lines get better. In reality I don't think CJ will touch the Tatar-Danault-Gallagher line any time soon, though.

 

[Cobra Commander]

This is true.

He is also playing on the third line, so...

Swap Danault and Kotkaniemi and everyone will be happy.

Thank you, and then I could finally stop swearing at my tv.

This argument of playing top minutes is silly. 13 mins in the NHL >>> 18 mins in Finland.

What’s the advantage of going to a league that is far inferior, far less physical and played on an ice surface that is a different size than the one he’ll play on for the next 20 years? There’s no advantage to playing in Finland.

People are still talking Finland?? Wake up people. He clearly should be our 1C right now, I’ve been saying it since pre season, but no, let’s give him offense killers like Armia on his line, and make sure Benn is out there at the same time too. This is slow dinosaur coaching, let’s see how long it takes them to realize that Danault sucks. Kotka would be PPG+ had he been playing with Tatar and Gally. Slow poke Claude will realize eventually.

Hahaha

 

[Runner77]

Hahaha

That's wholly inspired by you, lol.

I think we're down to two posters still calling him "Coconut". Talk about a campaign that will never take off.

 

[Cobra Commander]

That's wholly inspired by you, lol.

I think we're down to two posters still calling him "Coconut". Talk about a campaign that will never take off.

I thrive to inspire lol, but you’re pretty good at sprinkling magic around here. “Coconut” is by far the worst nickname suggestion we’ve heard. My 6.5 pound female Chihuahua is named Coconut.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He needs to work on his shot. I suspect he needs to put on some muscle, but I find he takes too long to get his shot off.

Long stick!

 

[Cobra Commander]

For me, eyeball test agrees with you. I think he is playing ok but not spectacular. Of course, he just turned 18 and playing on a smaller ice surface in the best league in the world. So, that is impressive in itself as he looks better than some veterans on the team.

In terms of advanced stats, his CF is super great right now and his PDO is closer to 100. That said, almost 70% of his starts are in the oZone.

Anyhow, only 8 games in. We’ll see how it goes through the season.

The eyeball test is not showing you yet that Armia has no business playing with talent like Kotkaniemi? Slow eye, like Claude.

 

[sandviper]

The eyeball test is not showing you yet that Armia has no business playing with talent like Kotkaniemi? Slow eye, like Claude.

That just goes without saying. I mentioned the quality of line mates that prior to the post you quoted.

 

[Cobra Commander]

The eyeball test is not showing you yet that Armia has no business playing with talent like Kotkaniemi? Slow eye, like Claude.

That just goes without saying. I mentioned the quality of line mates that prior to the post you quoted.

The kid is a superstar, he doesn’t need “sheltering”, how long before we use him properly?

 

[sandviper]

The kid is a superstar, he doesn’t need “sheltering”, how long before we use him properly?

I'm fine with Byron. Not ideal, but Byron isn't a plug. We still need actual talent though to go with him. If Tatar - Danault - Gallagher go cold, I'd swap centers here.

Anyhow, I'm ok leaving him with his boat anchor, but he needs more PP time. With Byron and Armia as linemates, he also needs more dZone starts.

 

[pepperMonkey]

People are still talking Finland?? Wake up people. He clearly should be our 1C right now, I’ve been saying it since pre season, but no, let’s give him offense killers like Armia on his line, and make sure Benn is out there at the same time too. This is slow dinosaur coaching, let’s see how long it takes them to realize that Danault sucks. Kotka would be PPG+ had he been playing with Tatar and Gally. Slow poke Claude will realize eventually.
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The question isn't about, "Is he skilled enough to be our 1C right now?" because he certainly is. And no one is disappointed by his progress. Not even the coach. It's not about having our best wingers playing with him either. The question is "Is he physically mature enough to handle being our 1C over the 82 game grind?". I.e. is he strong enough to handle going up against the NHL's best, who will do their best to pound him into the dirt, game in, game out? Because if he is not, and needs time to put on muscle, NO COACH would be dumb enough to make him our 1C, unless they don't care if he gets obliterated by the NHL's dirtiest.

And if he needs more time to put on muscle, frankly, I would rather see him do that outside the NHL. It's all about what's best for his development, regardless of our teams' needs or how our team is doing or will do with him.

 

[26Mats]

The question isn't about, "Is he skilled enough to be our 1C right now?" because he certainly is. And no one is disappointed by his progress. Not even the coach. It's not about having our best wingers playing with him either. The question is "Is he physically mature enough to handle being our 1C over the 82 game grind?". I.e. is he strong enough to handle going up against the NHL's best, who will do their best to pound him into the dirt, game in, game out? Because if he is not, and needs time to put on muscle, NO COACH would be dumb enough to make him our 1C, unless they don't care if he gets obliterated by the NHL's dirtiest.

And if he needs more time to put on muscle, frankly, I would rather see him do that outside the NHL. It's all about what's best for his development, regardless of our teams' needs or how our team is doing or will do with him.

I agree that it should be all about what's best for his development. But no way in hell that's what it will actually be about. Julien coaches to win every night, not to do what's best for each player's development. MB wants badly to get back into the playoffs. Right now Kotkaniemi helps this team. They will keep him because of that. I don't know the answer to the question: would KK's development be better served by being a number 1 center and working on his muscular development in a lower league. I suspect MB and Julien aren't sure of that either, so they tell themselves, given that we're not sure of that and that he gives us the best chance to win now, let's keep him here. At least he's not siting in the press box for long stretches like they had DLR doing for years.