Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part IV

[Bonucci]

Will this guy ever score a goal?

 

[LastRide]

Will this guy ever score a goal?

Nope, the Habs took the wrong guy. I am not impressed at all. He is at the bottom of the team statistics almost every night.

 

[The Great Weal]

Nope, the Habs took the wrong guy. I am not impressed at all. He is at the bottom of the team statistics almost every night.

Good grief. He is the youngest player in the NHL. I hope you didn't expect a 60 point season...

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

Nope, the Habs took the wrong guy. I am not impressed at all. He is at the bottom of the team statistics almost every night.

7 games into his career, c’mon.

 

[tooji]

Need a gif of that backhand spin pass

 

[BaseballCoach]

See, you're constantly missing the mark with these awful examples. Add the mocking and really the issue here is you're just not interested in a genuine conversation about the subject, so you're not reading what people are writing.

Obviously, if you take an established A team and send them against B teams then that team will be wholly unprepared coming back into the playoffs against A teams.

Nobody's asking an established NHLer like Max Domi to get some more seasonning down in the AHL for the playoff run.

I'm personally watching a player who played well (but not exceptional) in AA asked to jump up to AAA star all while showing signs of needing work. And by that I mean even learning how to get open, which is freaking important skill that makes not only you, but all of your teammates that much less effective. Had he destroyed AA then you wouldn't hear anyone ask themselves if this is the optimal route. And the reasons are obvious: he'd have already shown that he's beyond that stage.

Get it ? Optimal. Not "only". Meaning the NHL is an option and no, staying does not mean he'll bust even if he's rushed. But the question here is if its the best option seeing the current weaknesses in his game, the lack of need to have him up and how this management has a history of improperly deploying and developing its prospects.

Do I try to expose bad arguments? Of course. Do I dismiss good arguments when they disagree with my conclusion? No.

For two months now, I have watched as two groups of people make common cause to try to make sure their "side" wins. By this I mean the folks on the "send him down side" who think he is not ready are only too happy to make common cause with the folks who thought he was too good and would ruin the tank. No one in either group that cheered on the others, liking their posts and so on, spent one second of introspection on how diametrically opposed their viewpoints were and how silly it looked for them to embrace a totally contrary argument to try to "win".

Now, I respect your argument about needing to develop the skill to get open. I did think about it. Trouble is, I don't believe you best develop that skill playing weaker opponents on bigger ice. You develop it the hard way, playing and learning at the highest level.

 

[Miller Time]

Now, I respect your argument about needing to develop the skill to get open. I did think about it. Trouble is, I don't believe you best develop that skill playing weaker opponents on bigger ice. You develop it the hard way, playing and learning at the highest level.

I don't know that it's "skill" that he needs to develop (beyond his own progressions from the work he does in practice and in the offseason)...

It's more the head space that is the concern. Developing the confidence to dominate is what we want to see in him, and I'm not so sure that, given his current state, he develops that as well playing 10-13min/night in sheltered minutes in the NHL vs playing likely 20+min/night in a league where his level of play today will allow him to perform at a top line level nightly...

I don't think it's a black/white decision, but as we approach game 9, his usage and production suggests playing in Finland might be the better option.

Tough call either way.

 

[Kojo]

He did a couple of those magic moves again tonight. They can't not keep him.

 

[BB88]

Need a gif of that backhand spin pass

I believe there's been 2-3 times when Kotka has been wide open but no one is even looking at him.

 

[tooji]

I believe there's been 2-3 times when Kotka has been wide open but no one is even looking at him.

I agree. I was at the game. He is getting open, and he really does want the puck. I saw him come into the slot and slam his stick down hard to signal to the passer (byron?) that he was open but his teamate opted to take the perimeter shot instead. I love byron, but there’s a reason he’s not an elite player— he has tunnel vision sometimes. Kotka needs a really skilled winger that can read the game similarly to him.

 

[crosbyshow]

Armia.......he had kk open all night long again and he don't want to pass him the puck and when he does....it's 5 feet in front of kk.

Jees armia is bad

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't think it's a black/white decision, but as we approach game 9, his usage and production suggests playing in Finland might be the better option.

Tough call either way.

His usage tonight included being on the ice with 3 minutes left with a one goal lead.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Armia.......he had kk open all night long again and he don't want to pass him the puck and when he does....it's 5 feet in front of kk.

Jees armia is bad

I’ve been saying this since game 1.

Armia is a 3rd/4th line player

 

[Paddyjack]

Hudon should be on that line, much better vision.

Or... lets replace Danault on that line, see what happens

 

[Runner77]

Need a gif of that backhand spin pass

 

[Haburger]

I don't know that it's "skill" that he needs to develop (beyond his own progressions from the work he does in practice and in the offseason)...

It's more the head space that is the concern. Developing the confidence to dominate is what we want to see in him, and I'm not so sure that, given his current state, he develops that as well playing 10-13min/night in sheltered minutes in the NHL vs playing likely 20+min/night in a league where his level of play today will allow him to perform at a top line level nightly...

I don't think it's a black/white decision, but as we approach game 9, his usage and production suggests playing in Finland might be the better option.

Tough call either way.

Huh?what?? Watch the game dude.guy is doing great for an 18 yr old.he s patient , defensively responsible and creates a ton offensively.guaranteed he stays .as he should.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I know I'm against the tide but for his own good and proper development I think he should play in the AHL. He has shown he can keep up in the NHL but he is unable to dominate. I think the AHL would help him with getting some offensive confidence back. It certainly helped Rantanen and Pastrnak who both played in the AHL at 18 years old. Just my 2 cents but I think the habs already made their mind and will keep him with the big club.

 

[Kriss E]

How come he couldn't play C for us then? And don't tell me about some anti-russian bias when we drafted the guy for that role...

He could play center for us, management just didn't want to.
The first mistake was the extension to DD. Once that was made, well they sealed Galch's fate.
He was being used on the wing in junior and doing well. We had Plek-DD-Eller, none of which could be converted into a winger. You really need to ask why?..How's this even still a question for some?
For the first four years, they moved him there from time to time for short spans just to say they did it. Good or bad, he'd always be put back on the wing because when you looked at the entire roster, that is where he best fit.
We tried. We moved Eller to the wing. Big fail. We did the same with DD. Big fail. Plekanec, well obviously we were not going to move him there.
And you know after that they just refused to have him play center. It was too late. They just spent 4 years using him on the wing, it would be quite stupid and silly to now move him to center. So they came up with crap excuses.
They went as far as to use J.Drouin over him at center and you are not going to argue with me that JD was a better pick to play center.
But if you take his time spent at center, he actually produced quite well and better than on the wing. So this idea that he just couldn't play center, that he was bad there, is pure BS that some have swallowed up without thought.

 

[Kriss E]

Huh?what?? Watch the game dude.guy is doing great for an 18 yr old.he s patient , defensively responsible and creates a ton offensively.guaranteed he stays .as he should.

A ton?..No.
Ya, he's been pretty good, for an 18yo. Who cares. That's not the objective.
We want him to excel and do so playing top line minutes. I'd rather see him do that in Finland.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I don't mind him playing with Armia/Byron to at least start his rookie year, both very good defensive players which takes a bit of a load off KK but also means he's not having to get the DD sheltering treatment so he's getting experience in all situations which is better for his development than putting up some extra points with all O-zone starts. The better wingers will come. Would like to see a bit more PP time but 1st unit seems to be drifting way past the half mark so he's only getting the last 30 secs or so

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't mind him playing with Armia/Byron to at least start his rookie year, both very good defensive players which takes a bit of a load off KK but also means he's not having to get the DD sheltering treatment so he's getting experience in all situations which is better for his development than putting up some extra points with all O-zone starts. The better wingers will come. Would like to see a bit more PP time but 1st unit seems to be drifting way past the half mark so he's only getting the last 30 secs or so

More PP time will come eventually, but right now the first unit is clicking.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kotkaniemi is showing flashes of elite level talent but he is still falling down far too often if you ask me. I like his offensive potential and how he plays smart out there but he's going to have a difficult time learning how to be a top 2 center with offensive production in the role we are playing him in.

The question here is what is the best situation for Kotkaniemi to improve on what he needs to improve on? Is it learning how to play a safe game as a 3rd line center or is it gaining strength and reaching his offensive ceiling potential?

Finland is the smart move. Comes down to asset management and a patient strategy. It's funny how I hear the "He don't look out of place" so he should stay. Did we draft him to not look out of place or did we draft him as a future offensive top 2 center?

 

[Kriss E]

Now, I respect your argument about needing to develop the skill to get open. I did think about it. Trouble is, I don't believe you best develop that skill playing weaker opponents on bigger ice. You develop it the hard way, playing and learning at the highest level.

Actually you do it both ways, and to me it's pretty clear he'd still gain quite a bit from playing at a lesser level.
Even just physically speaking, he's puny. Give him another year. It's not like we absolute must have him here, and it's likely to favor him anyways.

 

[Tuggy]

Eventually these guys gotta start finishing the chances KK is creating.

Had a good game last night.

 

[BB88]

I agree. I was at the game. He is getting open, and he really does want the puck. I saw him come into the slot and slam his stick down hard to signal to the passer (byron?) that he was open but his teamate opted to take the perimeter shot instead. I love byron, but there’s a reason he’s not an elite player— he has tunnel vision sometimes. Kotka needs a really skilled winger that can read the game similarly to him.

I remember especially 1 golden one timer chance that never happened.

If Danault is the defensive C and Kotka the offensive their wingers should be changed soon to make it fit better.
Also the #2pp unit is sad to watch, both icetime wise/player wise, very limited talent on that unit.