Prospect Info: Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part III

[scrubadam]

Im rooting for him, why can't we get a Matthews or Laine for once.

We might have lucked out and finally got that elite talent.

 

[Tyson]

I was one of those guys who thought we picked a player because of position and not the BPA. I was the guy who thought I was proven right when I watched the rookie tournament. I am the guy who was wrong and I am damn glad I was. This kid’s hockey sense and skill are amazing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Im rooting for him, why can't we get a Matthews or Laine for once.

We might have lucked out and finally got that elite talent.

I was trying to gauge his talent. I think his style is very different and hard to compare to other NHL players who had success. A big center who has great vision and slows the game down trying to feed off his line mates. I can't wait too see him in more open space where he gets time to get his shot off. We really haven't see this sample yet.

 

[417]

Thats just because you have little knowledge of who Jesperi is as a player. All he needs to do this at an elite level is strength.

BTW last night numbers for Jesperi...I forget what his last name is because of my limited knowledge of him.

Possession time at even strength: 0:39 (#1 for ALL players last night)
Possession driving plays: 24 (tied for 2nd)

Yeah...he sure looked like a guy who couldn't win board battles last night

I'm schleep

 

[Mrb1p]

And you're the expert


And that strength, naturally can only be found in Finland.

Must be in the water

Relatively, I am, youve watched four game of Kotkaniemi, ive watched about thirty. I know his worth, and what he showed yesterday is about a quarter of the impact he can have on a game when he has a physical edge on the opposition.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I was one of those guys who thought we picked a player because of position and not the BPA. I was the guy who thought I was proven right when I watched the rookie tournament. I am the guy who was wrong and I am damn glad I was. This kid’s hockey sense and skill are amazing.

Takes a lot of character to step up and admit when you were wrong. Your a good man in my books!

I remember talking about BPA and the focus was it was not locked in after the top 2 picks. That's why I supported position of need. I think a lot of people get tied to rankings throughout the year and forget to value the rankings towards the draft. Kotkaniemi was clearly a rising stock and it was not just Habs fans who noticed this.

 

[417]

Relatively, I am, youve watched four game of Kotkaniemi, ive watched about twenty.

You have no idea how many games of Kotkaniemi's i've watched

I know his worth, and what he showed yesterday is about a quarter of the impact he can have on a game when he has a physical edge on the opposition.

You can't even accurately evaluate his game last night.

You said after watching him last night, he can't win battles at an elite rate...

Yet no one in the game had better possession numbers.

Please

 

[Habs Halifax]

You have no idea how many games of Kotkaniemi's i've watched


You can't even accurately evaluate his game last night.

You said after watching him last night, he can't win battles at an elite rate...

Yet no one in the game had better possession numbers.

Please

Maybe your 4 games is worth more than his 20? Joking aside. None of us are experts. Even the good scouts can't predict the future.

 

[Mrb1p]

And you're the expert


And that strength, naturally can only be found in Finland.

Must be in the water

Relatively, I am, youve watched four game of Kotkaniemi, ive watched about twenty. I know his worth, and what he showed yesterday is about a quarter of the impact he can have on a game when he has a physical edge on the opposition.

Faceoffs, cycle, puck retrieving, puck protection, its things he usually does at an elite rate with the physical edge, and its things he really struggled with last game.

 

[Mrb1p]

You have no idea how many games of Kotkaniemi's i've watched


You can't even accurately evaluate his game last night.

You said after watching him last night, he can't win battles at an elite rate...

Yet no one in the game had better possession numbers.

Please

If only possession numbers were more accurate than the eye test

 

[417]

Relatively, I am, youve watched four game of Kotkaniemi, ive watched about twenty.

How do you know how many games of Kotkaniemi's that i've watched??? lol where are you coming up with these arbitrary numbers from?

I know his worth, and what he showed yesterday is about a quarter of the impact he can have on a game when he has a physical edge on the opposition.

That's great - I never said otherwise.

What's your point?

Faceoffs, cycle, puck retrieving, puck protection, its things he usually does at an elite rate with the physical edge, and its things he really struggled with last game.

He struggled with faceoffs...

He did not strugle with cycling, puck retrieval or puck protection.

Once again, while you were scouting the game...actual numbers say he lead ALL forwards in possession time and possession plays.

Sit down

 

[417]

If only possession numbers were more accurate than the eye test

Maybe you need to get your eyes tested

 

[NotProkofievian]

And that strength, naturally can only be found in Finland.

Must be in the water

I remember reading an article written by a physical therapist and trainer who works with a number of NHL players. He said that for the first few weeks after an NHL season, as many as 3, his work is exclusively rehab. He said something along the lines that their bodies are like ''jelly'' after a season and playoffs, and that before he can even think about getting them stronger, he has to just get them healthy and back to where they were before.

Getting bigger and stronger is a pretty simple formula but it requires a few things: stimulus, nutrition, and rest. Without rest, the first two are irrelevant: everything is irrelevant. Now, with that in mind, what do you think affords him the better opportunity to get bigger and stronger: Finland, with 22 fewer games, an easier travel schedule, and a longer off season (even without counting playoffs), or the NHL, which according to a therapist who works with NHL players reduces their bodies to ''jelly''?

You can prefer one development path over another without being dishonest about the realities of both.

 

[FloJack]

"... and Montreal with the reach."

Still remember Sportsnet's amazing summary of Montreal's first round pick after the draft. The guy who got picked 29th had way more coverage, although more than half of a sentence would be more coverage than the 3rd pick got on their cute little draft coverage.

 

[417]

I remember reading an article written by a physical therapist and trainer who works with a number of NHL players. He said that for the first few weeks after an NHL season, as many as 3, his work is exclusively rehab. He said something along the lines that their bodies are like ''jelly'' after a season and playoffs, and that before he can even think about getting them stronger, he has to just get them healthy and back to where they were before.

Getting bigger and stronger is a pretty simple formula but it requires a few things: stimulus, nutrition, and rest. Without rest, the first two are irrelevant: everything is irrelevant. Now, with that in mind, what do you think affords him the better opportunity to get bigger and stronger: Finland, with 22 fewer games, an easier travel schedule, and a longer off season (even without counting playoffs), or the NHL, which according to a therapist who works with NHL players reduces their bodies to ''jelly''?

I think you're misunderstanding my response...

I never said he can't get stronger and I also recognize that a lighter schedule, would allow him more time to rest and get stronger. I'm well aware of this.

My comment you responded too, I was being facetious because that poster said that "if Kotkaniemi plays like he did last night after 9 games, he should go back to Finland".

I thought Kotkaniemi looked great last night, eye test and stats support this theory...so when I presented this viewpoint, I was met with a response that "he didn't win his battles and an elite level".

Hence my comment about the water in Finland.

You can prefer one development path over another without being dishonest about the realities of both.

I'm not being dishonest about anything.

i've maintained from the beginning, the player's performances are going to dictate where he should play...based on how he played last night, and I realize it's just one game, but he deserves to continue his trial until his performances dictate otherwise.

No matter on which side of the debate you rest on as it relates to NHL vs Finland...wouldn't you agree that if last night was the baseline of what we can expect from Kotkaniemi, then he's not going anywhere for the time being?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I remember reading an article written by a physical therapist and trainer who works with a number of NHL players. He said that for the first few weeks after an NHL season, as many as 3, his work is exclusively rehab. He said something along the lines that their bodies are like ''jelly'' after a season and playoffs, and that before he can even think about getting them stronger, he has to just get them healthy and back to where they were before.

Getting bigger and stronger is a pretty simple formula but it requires a few things: stimulus, nutrition, and rest. Without rest, the first two are irrelevant: everything is irrelevant. Now, with that in mind, what do you think affords him the better opportunity to get bigger and stronger: Finland, with 22 fewer games, an easier travel schedule, and a longer off season (even without counting playoffs), or the NHL, which according to a therapist who works with NHL players reduces their bodies to ''jelly''?

You can prefer one development path over another without being dishonest about the realities of both.

Did you take a smart pill today or something? Very well said! If only I could of said this to support my various reasons why I think we need to be patient with him and send him back to Finland.

 

[417]

Did you take a smart pill today or something? Very well said! If only I could of said this to support my various reasons why I think we need to be patient with him and send him back to Finland.

Theres no doubt he could benefit from going back to get stronger, faster...

But theres also no doubt that his hockey sense is off the charts and that hockey sense helps him make up some physical limitations that he has right now.

Will that last all year, I have my doubts...

But right now, he looks like be belongs, last night he was one the best players on the ice for the Habs.

If anyone thinks be needs to go back to Finland based on how he looked last night...

Then IMO, they already have their minds made up...he could of scored a hat trick last night, and it wouldn't matter.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Theres no doubt he could benefit from going back to get stronger, faster...

But theres also no doubt that his hockey sense is off the charts and that hockey sense helps him make up some physical limitations that he has right now.

Will that last all year, I have my doubts...

But right now, he looks like be belongs, last night he was one the best players on the ice for the Habs.

If anyone thinks be needs to go back to Finland based on how he looked last night...

Then IMO, they already have their minds made up...he could of scored a hat trick last night, and it wouldn't matter.

I'm not going to be upset if he stays with the Habs all year. I don't have a overall strong opinion but my 1st choice is back to Finland. My approach is a patient approach. Gradual progression while he fills in the right way.

He looks good and he is engaged in the play no doubt. But I choose to do what the Blue Jays have done with Guerrero JR. They are measuring his value throughout his prime and prefer him to reach UFA status later vs earlier. Comes down to asset management vs weather he is ready or not this year.

 

[scrubadam]

I was trying to gauge his talent. I think his style is very different and hard to compare to other NHL players who had success. A big center who has great vision and slows the game down trying to feed off his line mates. I can't wait too see him in more open space where he gets time to get his shot off. We really haven't see this sample yet.

I think there is a lot more to see, but we can say that he doesn't look like an 18 year old out there(well his face does ). You could say he was in his 20's and no one would bat an eye. And its not only homer fans, every game I have watched the announcers and commentators have all been blown away by him. I think Burke was singing his praises last night in between the Toronto love fest.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think there is a lot more to see, but we can say that he doesn't look like an 18 year old out there(well his face does ). You could say he was in his 20's and no one would bat an eye. And its not only homer fans, every game I have watched the announcers and commentators have all been blown away by him. I think Burke was singing his praises last night in between the Toronto love fest.

No doubt he is trending well and is being noticed from across the league. I'm not a Burke fan but starting to come around now that he is with sportsnet. He is hitting the nail on the head on several things I have been noticing. Wasn't he the only one on that 1st intermission panel to call out the terrible penalty where Tavares was soft tapped by Drouin's stick in a fraction of a second? The rest of the clowns had their Leafs goggles on and were drooling on the PP chances.

 

[417]

I'm not going to be upset if he stays with the Habs all year. I don't have a overall strong opinion but my 1st choice is back to Finland. My approach is a patient approach. Gradual progression while he fills in the right way.

My 1st choice will always be the NHL as long as

A) He shows he can handle it
B) The coaching staff has a role for him, with sufficient ice time and are willing to live with his mistakes (I thought they handled his ice time perfectly last night)

If either of these things change - send him back.

He looks good and he is engaged in the play no doubt. But I choose to do what the Blue Jays have done with Guerrero JR. They are measuring his value throughout his prime and prefer him to reach UFA status later vs earlier. Comes down to asset management vs weather he is ready or not this year.

Not sure Blue Jays handling of Guerrero Jr can be compared, the CBA's for both leagues are entirely different.

But I get what you're saying.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My 1st choice will always be the NHL as long as

A) He shows he can handle it
B) The coaching staff has a role for him, with sufficient ice time and are willing to live with his mistakes (I thought they handled his ice time perfectly last night)

If either of these things change - send him back.


Not sure Blue Jays handling of Guerrero Jr can be compared, the CBA's for both leagues are entirely different.

But I get what you're saying.

I'm done with drawing a line in the sand. I'm going to live with it if Kotkaniemi stays. Also, it's easy for me to sit next to my computer saying he should go back to Finland after he is showing promise. Imagine having this face to face conversation with him?

Yes, you get my point about asset management. The CBA's and free agency are different but the intentions are the same. Insert them when they are impact players vs learning on the job while they get closer to free agency

 

[montreal]

Maybe his weight is going to be 180ish for the remainder of his career, he doesn't look like he need to bulk up with the skills he has.

he looks like he needs to bulk up, too skinny especially his lower body. With his frame, he could dominate physically down the road if he adds the right mix of weight/strength. We all want him to be the best player he can be for us. If we have any shot at winning a cup in the future, it starts with him.

 

[417]

he looks like he needs to bulk up, too skinny especially his lower body. With his frame, he could dominate physically down the road if he adds the right mix of weight/strength. We all want him to be the best player he can be for us. If we have any shot at winning a cup in the future, it starts with him.

It's going to take more than 1yr in Finland for him to bulk up to his optimal weight/strength though.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Im totally torn between keeping him and enjoying his play, and him returning to Liiga so he doesnt partly ruin the tank.