Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?

[Catanddogguitarrr]

That's why I'm talking about his potential... If MB believes in him, signing him to the lowest and longest contract possible, is the thing to do.

It's hard to be more than a .5 ppg player from the 3rd line and with less than 15:00... Next year he will most likely produce around 40 points, I'm willing to bet my left nut on it.

You want to overpay by potential? You also use the word gamble. You scare me, by chance you're not Habs gm. Bergy did some of those gambles and look at the result and the bashing he received.

 

[Zorba]

People don't want to give a 2.8m for 3 years bridge to KK but they want to give 3.4m for 4 years to Armia and some people here are okay with Paul Byron contract.

This board man. He's 21.

UFA and RFA are 2 different things. And Byron was coming off two 20g years.
kotkaniemi has zero leverage

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Not a big fan of his game or progression so far but like stated several times already, he's only 21. In my opinion, he hasn't shown anything specific in his game to make me think he will become a top 6 player. He might be 21 but his progression curve hasn't gone up in 3 years. I think his biggest flaws are his skating/balance and decision making with the puck. If MB doesn't make anymore move regarding our center situation, KK better needs to step up big time. He will have a golden opportunities at 2nd C, with really good wingers he really have no excuse. I don't want to spund negative or pessimist but I don't think the team will give him 2nd C responsibility or if he does, he won't last long.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I think KK and the Habs should really look at Mikko Koivu's career and the type of player he was and aim for that. I seriously doubt KK will ever score that much, but if he can become a solid defensively 2C, strong in the faceoff circle, who's good for 40-50 points, 20-25 goals, and nasty to play against, that would be a huge win for everyone involved. He can become this type of player, but I'm not sure he wants to, or if the Habs are the team to get him there.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

2.2M a lot ? Do you think he's a 4th liner and that he will remain one ?

Leks is getting 2.3 or whatever on the fourth line, the cost of depth players is crazy these days and drives up the cost of tweeners

 

[Be a Hab]

KK was drafted a few spots too high. Being drafted 3rd overall comes with added pressure to be a star player in the NHL. Just like Drouin. I'm not convinced that KK will be a star but I do believe he will become a lot more consistent in his play during the next few years.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

There needs to be some give and take. KK needs to step up but Ducharme cant just be sitting someone if they struggle for 3 or 4 games like we have seen. KK i have noticed is on a much shorter leash then many. Its often ok for Drouin, Byron, etc to go stretches of 10 ineffective games with no recourse from the coach.

Both sides need to do more for him to reach his potential

 

[canucklover123]

People don't want to give a 2.8m for 3 years bridge to KK but they want to give 3.4m for 4 years to Armia and some people here are okay with Paul Byron contract.

This board man. He's 21.

KK really doesnt have any leverage though based on (performance and status as an RFA) at the moment.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

UFA and RFA are 2 different things. And Byron was coming off two 20g years.
kotkaniemi has zero leverage

Byron is a 4th liner that had fluke seasons , hes fast and good defensively but hes not worth his contract . Byron had 0 leverage whatsoever he was picked from waiver.

 

[Garbageyuk]

There needs to be some give and take. KK needs to step up but Ducharme cant just be sitting someone if they struggle for 3 or 4 games like we have seen. KK i have noticed is on a much shorter leash then many. Its often ok for Drouin, Byron, etc to go stretches of 10 ineffective games with no recourse from the coach.

Both sides need to do more for him to reach his potential

He can and should, if it's the playoffs. We were trying to win; I support that decision. It was the right call, imo. The NHL is not a development league, and the finals sure aren't the time to be giving young players leash if they are not up to the task. And it was clear KK was struggling, despite scoring a few goals in previous rounds.

 

[Zorba]

Byron is a 4th liner that had fluke seasons , hes fast and good defensively but hes not worth his contract . Byron had 0 leverage whatsoever he was picked from waiver.

Kotkaniemi wished he had 2 fluke seasons

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

He can and should, if it's the playoffs. We were trying to win; I support that decision. It was the right call, imo. The NHL is not a development league, and the finals sure aren't the time to be giving young players leash if they are not up to the task. And it was clear KK was struggling, despite scoring a few goals in previous rounds.

Staal was hot garbage in finals, as was Armia, Toffoli. Byron was useless 95 percent of the time despite the odd big goal. Add Anderson who showed for 1 in 10 games

Evans was clearly not right either after his concussion

One was singled out. Its not the first time in MTL this has happened.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Staal was hot garbage in finals, as was Armia, Toffoli. Byron was useless 95 percent of the time despite the odd big goal. Add Anderson who showed for 1 in 10 games

Evans was clearly not right either after his concussion

One was singled out. Its not the first time in MTL this has happened.

KK was worse than everyone you mentioned, "despite the odd big goal". It would actually have been irresponsible to keep him in the line-up with the way he was playing. If they had, you guys would be crying about how they "threw him to the wolves" or something dumb like that. There is honestly no winning with you "apologists"; nothing is ever KK's fault - it's the coaches, it's his line-mates, management rushed him, on and on. Meanwhile, youngsters like Suzuki and Caufield earned their spots in the line-up and thrived in the finals. Young guys have to be clearly better than the veterans to play over them; it has always been that way and always will be. KK was not, in fact he was worse and a liability on the ice.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

KK was worse than everyone you mentioned, "despite the odd big goal". It would actually have been irresponsible to keep him in the line-up with the way he was playing. If they had, you guys would be crying about how they "threw him to the wolves" or something dumb like that. There is honestly no winning with you "apologists"; nothing is ever KK's fault - it's the coaches, it's his line-mates, management rushed him, on and on. Meanwhile, youngsters like Suzuki and Caufield earned their spots in the line-up and thrived in the finals. Young guys have to be clearly better than the veterans to play over them; it has always been that way and always will be. KK was not, in fact he was worse and a liability on the ice.

Apologist, give me a break. I flat out said he needed to step up. When you have nothing of value to say, thats the retort. No surprise

Everyone watched the fourth line get destroyed in the finals yet not a move.

Guess you are an apologist for all them

 

[Kriss E]

KK was worse than everyone you mentioned, "despite the odd big goal". It would actually have been irresponsible to keep him in the line-up with the way he was playing. If they had, you guys would be crying about how they "threw him to the wolves" or something dumb like that. There is honestly no winning with you "apologists"; nothing is ever KK's fault - it's the coaches, it's his line-mates, management rushed him, on and on. Meanwhile, youngsters like Suzuki and Caufield earned their spots in the line-up and thrived in the finals. Young guys have to be clearly better than the veterans to play over them; it has always been that way and always will be. KK was not, in fact he was worse and a liability on the ice.

None of our players thrived in the finals. Caufield didn't even score a goal, so..not sure what you saw.

KK was not a worse liability than others mentioned. That's pure BS.

This approach to kids vs vets is beyond moronic. It's the POs, one decision can be the difference between losing or winning an entire series, so coaches tend to go with more seasoned guys. I think that's just conservative old school mentality though.
We can look at putting in Murray instead of Beaulieu a few years back and how dumb that was.
I think the Haba would have also been way more helpful to themselves if they kept Romanov in for the entire POs, he could have maybe prevented the dumb costly mistakes guys like Merrill and Gus did.

I dont get this "apologist" comment. KK is a 3rd overall pick in his 3rd year, people want him dressed. Suggesting a borderline NHLer like Staal was a smarter pick is madness.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

KK was worse than everyone you mentioned, "despite the odd big goal". It would actually have been irresponsible to keep him in the line-up with the way he was playing. If they had, you guys would be crying about how they "threw him to the wolves" or something dumb like that. There is honestly no winning with you "apologists"; nothing is ever KK's fault - it's the coaches, it's his line-mates, management rushed him, on and on. Meanwhile, youngsters like Suzuki and Caufield earned their spots in the line-up and thrived in the finals. Young guys have to be clearly better than the veterans to play over them; it has always been that way and always will be. KK was not, in fact he was worse and a liability on the ice.

his playoffs was a very mixed bag. It changed from game to game. I understood him sitting though I felt he should've came back and pushed Staal out of the line up but again, I get why they didn't.

I really don't blame the coaches up until now. I think his usage has been fine. Has he been rushed? We'll find out soon enough I guess. He looked damn good as an 18 year old rookie where just about everyone was pretty stoked on him. It's weird when people think that the coaches have it in for the kids or specifically KK when you see how CC and Suzuki have been treated. They earned it. KK hasn't up until now. That's pretty clear to me.

But whether or not he was rushed you still have to see that with how young he is and how much room he has to grow physically, that you can be looking at a completely different player in a year or so.

Both sides of this argument have been frustrating. Blaming the coaches to me is a no go. You're right the goal posts have been shifted where it doesn't make sense. He really can't be both 'rushed' and 'should be given top 6 mins/linemates' both can't co-exist.

 

[Dondini]

It's too much gamble for saying he deserve a 4M for 6 years. Danault (sorry I have to bring him once again in the discussion) had 3M per year for being a defensive center and was used as a first center by his coaches and was the center of the best line for about 3 years. On a team that didn't made the PO but we have to point out the other lines if you ask me.

Every contract is watched in a microspe on this forum, from Carey Price to Armia, tons on threads and messages about every dollar spendt. We lost Danault for 500,000$ and Perry for 250,000$. Now you claim KK is worth 4M for 6 years I think you have to slow down your enthousiasm.

I'm not the guy who will bash KK till the end of the day here but you will find a ton of members who will argue with you on that one, that's for sure. Some here just say KK is a bust. Ok, ignore their posts, like me. But you see what I mean. The pressure of social medias. It's Montreal land, it comes with the territory. KK is still a kid in my eyes and I think Bergy needs to sign a legit center because I'm not impressed with Paquette, Perreault, Evans and Poehling. I can be wrong about that but my experience tells me nhl is a tought jungle and Mtl one of the most pressure market to play. I like the kid KK and for his best developpment I prefer he would be placed in a lower competitive role.

A lot of good points but it should be we lost Danault for 2 million per year. He’s a 3.5 mill 3C. He’s also going to be 29 years old. Almost every player loses a hair of the their skating starting at that age. It’s his main weapon. Off topic but I’m soooo happy we didn’t over pay him.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

A lot of good points but it should be we lost Danault for 2 million per year. He’s a 3.5 mill 3C. He’s also going to be 29 years old. Almost every player loses a hair of the their skating starting at that age. It’s his main weapon. Off topic but I’m soooo happy we didn’t over pay him.

Danault is now a 5,5 M 2C with LAK now. He could have been a Vegas C or another team at this price. You say good thing we didn't overpaid him but just watch the Habs lose games after games because our center line will be so weak. The only good center will be Suzuki and his game will be more difficult because he's gonna be alone. I know it's off topic. But to get back to KK it's gonna be hard for him too and for Evans too. I'm not agree with the 29 yrs age skating decline because Bergeron, Crosby, Kopitar, Malkin and co are still skating well after age of 30.

 

[Dondini]

Danault is now a 5,5 M 2C with LAK now. He could have been a Vegas C or another team at this price. You say good thing we didn't overpaid him but just watch the Habs lose games after games because our center line will be so weak. The only good center will be Suzuki and his game will be more difficult because he's gonna be alone. I know it's off topic. But to get back to KK it's gonna be hard for him too and for Evans too. I'm not agree with the 29 yrs age skating decline because Bergeron, Crosby, Kopitar, Malkin and co are still skating well after age of 30

Lol at using 4 of some of the greatest players in the game for a baseline for danault. And Habs losing game after game? Kinda like we been doing for a few years now. The Habs run was amazing but I’m in agreeance with most we don’t make the playoffs in a normal year last year. I believe this team assembled right now is better built for the regular season than we have been for a while

 

[Garbageyuk]

None of our players thrived in the finals. Caufield didn't even score a goal, so..not sure what you saw.

KK was not a worse liability than others mentioned. That's pure BS.

This approach to kids vs vets is beyond moronic. It's the POs, one decision can be the difference between losing or winning an entire series, so coaches tend to go with more seasoned guys. I think that's just conservative old school mentality though.
We can look at putting in Murray instead of Beaulieu a few years back and how dumb that was.
I think the Haba would have also been way more helpful to themselves if they kept Romanov in for the entire POs, he could have maybe prevented the dumb costly mistakes guys like Merrill and Gus did.

I dont get this "apologist" comment. KK is a 3rd overall pick in his 3rd year, people want him dressed. Suggesting a borderline NHLer like Staal was a smarter pick is madness.

It was actually a tight checking series. Suzuki and Caufield were great. They both matched Brayden Point's production in the series (3 points), but they out-played him because they both had points in multiple games, with Caufield having a hand in both Anderson's goals, including the OT winner in game 4. Whereas Brayden Point had all his production in game 1 and didn't score a goal in the series either. Even Kucherov was held to 5 points in the series - 3 of them coming in game 1, hardly the world beater he'd been up to that point (likely injured, but everyone is banged up by that point). In fact, after game 1, both Suzuki and Caufield out-scored Kucherov as well. That's what I saw.

But you want to minimize our guys in order to prop up KK lol. "Caufield didn't even score a goal"...LOL he's a rookie and he out-played Brayden Point in the finals. The veteran issue is just the way it is, don't hold that against me; it's always been like that. It wasn't a problem for Caufield or Suzuki though.

Hilarious that you use Beaulieu as an example in the veterans vs young guys thing, just lol.

KK was absolutely a liability, and doesn't bring any veteran savvy or nuance or anything if he isn't scoring. He was struggling, and couldn't keep up with Tampa's skating. Him being a 3rd overall pick and people wanting him dressed is irrelevant - he was out of his depth, so he got benched. It's as simple as that.

 

[Archijerej]

Has KK even ever played with someone has good as Hoffman before?

Yes.

 

[Heffyhoof]

This thread should just be renamed the Clown Show and everyone would still know which thread it is.

 

[BLONG7]

Yeahhhh Toffoli is definitely a "leftover".

Gotta love the lengths Habs fans will go to find excuses for the kid everytime he craps the bed.

LOL.......The kid gets Toffolli for how many games??
Seriously this kid always got Leks, Armia, Byron, the majority of the times............this upcoming season is a big one, they now have alot of depth at the wings, and the kid should come into his own.......not to mention they now don't have to placate Phil the Thrill who couldn't score in the ocean......

 

[willzyix]

Staal was hot garbage in finals, as was Armia, Toffoli. Byron was useless 95 percent of the time despite the odd big goal. Add Anderson who showed for 1 in 10 games

Evans was clearly not right either after his concussion

One was singled out. Its not the first time in MTL this has happened.

He was singled out because he brought the least to the team. Staal and Armia were necessary along with Perry to create the cycle game that dominated other lines in the first three rounds. Getting that line going was going to be important if we wanted to overcome Tampa.

Toffoli was our leading goal scorer all year. Never an option.

Byron plays PK and wears an A. I would have been okay with him sitting, but I can see why he wasn't. Same with Gallagher. He brought very little but it wouldn't go over well in the room IMO.

KK being in or out of the lineup wouldnt have made a difference in the series at the end of the day, but there weren't a ton of options at F to swap out without hurting the key ingredients of our success and trying to give a spark.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

LOL.......The kid gets Toffolli for how many games??
Seriously this kid always got Leks, Armia, Byron, the majority of the times............this upcoming season is a big one, they now have alot of depth at the wings, and the kid should come into his own.......not to mention they now don't have to placate Phil the Thrill who couldn't score in the ocean......

Oh, I have a feeling whatever negative happens it's not going to be his fault.