Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?

[Le Tricolore]

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[Gravity]

Hope he gets his bridge deal soon because the longer he is without a deal signals greater possibility of a trade.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Hope he gets his bridge deal soon because the longer he is without a deal signals greater possibility of a trade.

He's getting traded.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He's getting traded.

Do either of Toronto, Vegas or Winnipeg have anything we want and they would be willing to give up?

 

[crazyd74]

He's getting traded.

...before he becomes the new Galchenyuk. This I am quite afraid of. Another sabotaged talent.

 

[Dondini]

Gotta stop looking at being drafted third overall. Draft doesn’t mean much. He has the physical make up of being a solid two way center man who can hit. Also likes to show up for playoffs. Who doesn’t want that on their team?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Gotta stop looking at being drafted third overall. Draft doesn’t mean much. He has the physical make up of being a solid two way center man who can hit. Also likes to show up for playoffs. Who doesn’t want that on their team?

 

[Dondini]

View attachment 458557

lol fair point

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

@Catanddogguitarrr

Too much contradiction in your response. You write no doubt about his potential and you write about we are gambling on the potential. Sorry but it's hard to understand, lol.

There is not a contradiction, I believe in KK's potential to become a #2C, but I can't see in the future; therefore it's a gamble until he reaches that potential. For all we know, he can end up exceeding our expectations and be a #1C or only improve a bit for the next 2-3 years and be a good #3C...

Second quote : Now being good defensivly, being a #3 C (then who is #2 C?)

That's in the worst-case scenario, if KK is not our #2C, we are in deep shit, but at 4M/year and knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, we can reasonably expect from him to be at least a good #3C.

and Danault have nothing to do with what you said means Danault wasn't the defensive C with the team? Did he or not took defensive duty vs Matthews and Connor? So now I guess it will be KK duty if he is our #3 C? Or it will be Evans or Perrault? Or Poehling? Or Paquette?

Does anyone (and including Ducharme) knows who will shut down the best C of the other teams?
Now you seem to say it's gonna be KK because "KK is good defensively" to quote you.

Danault has nothing to do with what I said, because I'm talking about KK's contract and you are bringing Danault for no reason. Next year KK will most likely play as our #2C, he should be able to showcase his offensive talent.

But this thread is full of comments like "KK have to built more muscles in the lower body and improve", etc.

You are thinking too much, you are complicating things. You are confusing me.

I only talked about signing KK to a contract around 4M for 6 years, because it can be a good gamble for the future. Knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, and that #3C are paid around that kind of money, the risk is pretty low.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

@Catanddogguitarrr



There is not a contradiction, I believe in KK's potential to become a #2C, but I can't see in the future; therefore it's a gamble until he reaches that potential. For all we know, he can end up exceeding our expectations and be a #1C or only improve a bit for the next 2-3 years and be a good #3C...



That's in the worst-case scenario, if KK is not our #2C, we are in deep shit, but at 4M/year and knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, we can reasonably expect from him to be at least a good #3C.



Danault has nothing to do with what I said, because I'm talking about KK's contract and you are bringing Danault for no reason. Next year KK will most likely play as our #2C, he should be able to showcase his offensive talent.



You are thinking too much, you are complicating things. You are confusing me.

I only talked about signing KK to a contract around 4M for 6 years, because it can be a good gamble for the future. Knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, and that #3C are paid around that kind of money, the risk is pretty low.

It's too much gamble for saying he deserve a 4M for 6 years. Danault (sorry I have to bring him once again in the discussion) had 3M per year for being a defensive center and was used as a first center by his coaches and was the center of the best line for about 3 years. On a team that didn't made the PO but we have to point out the other lines if you ask me.

Every contract is watched in a microspe on this forum, from Carey Price to Armia, tons on threads and messages about every dollar spendt. We lost Danault for 500,000$ and Perry for 250,000$. Now you claim KK is worth 4M for 6 years I think you have to slow down your enthousiasm.

I'm not the guy who will bash KK till the end of the day here but you will find a ton of members who will argue with you on that one, that's for sure. Some here just say KK is a bust. Ok, ignore their posts, like me. But you see what I mean. The pressure of social medias. It's Montreal land, it comes with the territory. KK is still a kid in my eyes and I think Bergy needs to sign a legit center because I'm not impressed with Paquette, Perreault, Evans and Poehling. I can be wrong about that but my experience tells me nhl is a tought jungle and Mtl one of the most pressure market to play. I like the kid KK and for his best developpment I prefer he would be placed in a lower competitive role.

 

[Zorba]

Hope he gets his bridge deal soon because the longer he is without a deal signals greater possibility of a trade.

Wouldn’t be the end of the world. Way better players have been traded

 

[Zorba]

@Catanddogguitarrr



There is not a contradiction, I believe in KK's potential to become a #2C, but I can't see in the future; therefore it's a gamble until he reaches that potential. For all we know, he can end up exceeding our expectations and be a #1C or only improve a bit for the next 2-3 years and be a good #3C...



That's in the worst-case scenario, if KK is not our #2C, we are in deep shit, but at 4M/year and knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, we can reasonably expect from him to be at least a good #3C.



Danault has nothing to do with what I said, because I'm talking about KK's contract and you are bringing Danault for no reason. Next year KK will most likely play as our #2C, he should be able to showcase his offensive talent.



You are thinking too much, you are complicating things. You are confusing me.

I only talked about signing KK to a contract around 4M for 6 years, because it can be a good gamble for the future. Knowing that he's already an adequate #3C, and that #3C are paid around that kind of money, the risk is pretty low.

If kotkaniemi gets 4 million Suzuki and his agent are salivating. They will have Bergevin over a barrel with his pants down. Be prepared to give Suzuki 8 million of you give kotkaniemi 4

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

If kotkaniemi gets 4 million Suzuki and his agent are salivating. They will have Bergevin over a barrel with his pants down. Be prepared to give Suzuki 8 million of you give kotkaniemi 4

Suzuki has already the arguments to ask for 7M+, with the kind of money we gave to Anderson, Gallagher, Drouin...

 

[Fixxer]

Loot at every team and after tell me if Evans is better than their #2 center. Do you really think Evans is a good #2 center around the league or you're an enthousiast Habs fan? I like the part when you mention it's not the ideal situation. Being that said, now Evans is ahead of Kotkaniemi? This is confusing and needs to be debated. And do you think Evans have serious head concussion history that might limit his ice time?

The other thread is closed so I will answer here. First, there seems that you got me wrong on a few points.

I'm not concerned about KK's talent, but his inconsistency and sometimes doubtful work at center is why I said that Evans might be ahead of him, in terms of being reliable. Losing Danault cause a hole at Center, especially on the defensive end of things. I'd rather have Evans than KK for this. If I want a goal, KK has more offens to his game, no doubt. Do I want Evans in a top 6? nope!! And I was mostly wondering of KK, is he going to develop into a good center or he is going to be put on the wing in the coming years. The fact that he was taken out of the lineup, in the previous 2 seasons (Once by Julien, Once by ducharme) + the recent playoffs (didn't start them and was taken away in the final few games). I simply have my concerns about KK, which I think a lot of people have.

As for Evans and his concusson(s), only he knows how much that affects him but if coaches feels like he's not playing his A game, then they might reduce his ice time. Well, unless he gets another hit to the head, he looked fine when he came back, I think.

 

[Merci Saku]

...before he becomes the new Galchenyuk. This I am quite afraid of. Another sabotaged talent.

Galchenyuk becoming a bust is all on him, we saw it and every team he played for after that saw it

it’s not just putting the puck in the net, there’s things you can get away with in the minors but not in the NHL

I don’t have a problem blaming the organization with their decisions sometimes but this time Galchenyuk didn’t wanna put in the work

 

[Zorba]

Suzuki has already the arguments to ask for 7M+, with the kind of money we gave to Anderson, Gallagher, Drouin...

Sure but don’t be giving kotkaniemi 4 million for potential. He will be lucky to get 2.2 And really that’s a lot

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Suzuki has already the arguments to ask for 7M+, with the kind of money we gave to Anderson, Gallagher, Drouin...

You mention players who are overpaid except Anderson. It should not work this way because the cap will bust pretty soon. You are trying to justify your argument KK should be paid 4M for 6 years. Try to stay on this argument and defend it. And some posters on this board says KK should be traded. There is an huge difference on opinions and obviously you are on one extreme of KK's evaluation.

I would go 3M for 3 years, more or less. KK needs a brigde contract, not the full one, not yet.

 

[Zorba]

Galchenyuk becoming a bust is all on him, we saw it and every team he played for after that saw it

it’s not just putting the puck in the net, there’s things you can get away with in the minors but not in the NHL

I don’t have a problem blaming the organization with their decisions sometimes but this time Galchenyuk didn’t wanna put in the work

Apparently it’s all the habs fault when a player busts. Not the player. Funny no one gives credit to tbe organization for players like Gallagher, price . Subban or Pacioretty. it’s the same rhetoric, the habs ruined galchenyuk. Sure…

 

[Zorba]

You mention players who are overpaid except Anderson. It should not work this way because the cap will bust pretty soon. You are trying to justify your argument KK should be paid 4M for 6 years. Try to stay on this argument and defend it. And some posters on this board says KK should be traded. There is an huge difference on opinions and obviously you are on one extreme of KK's evaluation.

I would go 3M for 3 years, more or less. KK needs a brigde contract, not the full one, not yet.

You’re still being very generous. He hasn’t signed yet because Bergevin isn’t in a hurry. 3 million is still too much for this guy at the moment
He will probably get 5 million over 2 years.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Sure but don’t be giving kotkaniemi 4 million for potential. He will be lucky to get 2.2 And really that’s a lot

2.2M a lot ? Do you think he's a 4th liner and that he will remain one ?

 

[Zorba]

2.2M a lot ? Do you think he's a 4th liner and that he will remain one ?

He’s proven nothing to get 3 million or more. 2 years 5 million the max. He’s not even a.5 ppg player. He’s not getting anywhere near 4 million. He’s not a UFA. He has no leverage whatsoever

 

[Garbageyuk]

Galchenyuk becoming a bust is all on him, we saw it and every team he played for after that saw it

it’s not just putting the puck in the net, there’s things you can get away with in the minors but not in the NHL

I don’t have a problem blaming the organization with their decisions sometimes but this time Galchenyuk didn’t wanna put in the work

I've said this so many times. No amount of coaching or "development" was going to make AG smarter, faster, or improve his piss-poor attitude and entitlement.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

You mention players who are overpaid except Anderson. It should not work this way because the cap will bust pretty soon.

That's not Suzuki's problem.

You are trying to justify your argument KK should be paid 4M for 6 years. Try to stay on this argument and defend it.

I already told you my arguments, you don't agree, it's fine. I would sign KK around 4M/6 years, because I believe in his potential as a #2C and his floor is a #3C, it's simple. For me it's a no-brainer if KK wants to sign that type of contract.

And some posters on this board says KK should be traded. There is an huge difference on opinions and obviously you are on one extreme of KK's evaluation.

It's fine, people have different opinions on players... Thinking that KK has the potential to be a #2C is on the other extreme ? 4M/year is in the range of a #3C money... Danault and Pageau are making more and they are great 3rd liners.

I would go 3M for 3 years, more or less. KK needs a brigde contract, not the full one, not yet.

I would rather gamble on the potential and add 1M, 4M is 3rd liner money, their is almost no risk.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

People don't want to give a 2.8m for 3 years bridge to KK but they want to give 3.4m for 4 years to Armia and some people here are okay with Paul Byron contract.

This board man. He's 21.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

He’s proven nothing to get 3 million or more. 2 years 5 million the max. He’s not even a.5 ppg player. He’s not getting anywhere near 4 million. He’s not a UFA. He has no leverage whatsoever

That's why I'm talking about his potential... If MB believes in him, signing him to the lowest and longest contract possible, is the thing to do.

It's hard to be more than a .5 ppg player from the 3rd line and with less than 15:00... Next year he will most likely produce around 40 points, I'm willing to bet my left nut on it.