Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 17

[BLONG7]

How do you know this? 'Cause the stats don't show it.
Danault has 24 points playing 17 minutes a game against the toughest lines from opposing teams.
KK has 20 points playing 15 minutes a game against middling opposition and getting regular PP time.

Stats are just that, but the EYE test tells us all, KK can pass the puck 10 times better than Phil, because he just can.
I love Phil, in a shutdown role...he is perfect for it......................give him those types of wingers, not CC and Anderson who need a center to FEED them the puck.
Phil made one pass to CC last night, and zero to Anderson....the eye test has to be factored into all of these discussions also....KK can set people up, hence his PP time....maybe not everyone scores on the setups, but he has more talent in the o-zone than Phil.

 

[Habby4Life]

He is right and any fan who watches them play would agree. One is a talentless vision less defensive minded center with the best wingers the other is a lanky kid still filling in and has vision and offensive instincts.

Watches them play... and offensive instincts, that was hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Habby4Life]

Just think about the pass to open ice KK gave to Evans for a solo rush that ended up in Forsbergs mitt... imagine caufield getting this.

Haha, the PASS!

 

[Mrb1p]

Haha, the PASS!

Do you think Caufield scores there? Game changes right away, maybe they win. Kotkaniemi finally gets a point, everyone is happy.

 

[branch]

In terms of 3rd overall, at the same point in their careers, were you guys as frustrated with Galchenyuk as you are with Kotkaniemi? Or was the general sentiment one was ahead of the other at the same point. Cheers

 

[DAChampion]

the Hobbit is on Danaults line to shelter his defensive weaknesses at 5-on-5

Typical of this fandom.

 

[DAChampion]

How do you know this? 'Cause the stats don't show it.

It's called watching the games, Kotkaniemi is strong at gaining the zone and at making passes.

 

[Tuggy]

In terms of 3rd overall, at the same point in their careers, were you guys as frustrated with Galchenyuk as you are with Kotkaniemi? Or was the general sentiment one was ahead of the other at the same point. Cheers

Nice gag coming in here with that avatar.

Well played sir.

 

[Habs178]

Not sure why anyone would put Caulfield with KK, who's been an offensive black hole. The team's job isn't to throw everything at the kitchen sink to get KK going, it's to win games.

KK needs to figure out how to have an impact on the game regardless of production if he wants more TOI and more consistent line mates, because right now he's an anchor to any line he plays on.

Funny you say it's not their job to get KK going, but sure as f*** was when Danault was doing f*** all, and when Suzuki slumped. But nah, this is KK's fault.

 

[sampollock]

if the habs wnat to save this draft pick, in KK
send him down to the Rockets for a year, clearly the NHL is not making him better.

need to salvage this missed pick

 

[Habs Icing]

Stats are just that, but the EYE test tells us all, KK can pass the puck 10 times better than Phil, because he just can.
.

KK has played regularly on the power play. Where are these magnificent passes from KK? Also, I don't see him constantly setting up his unworthy wingers and them constantly missing. Occasionally, every second or third game, he makes a good pass as he did with Evans last night but you know what? Almost every NHLer makes those passes on occasion. You guys are blowing his offensive skill way out of proportion. He is not as skilled as many of you claim.

You're all excited about the way he played in the bubble last year. Go back and watch how he played. It wasn't a skill game. He played a Tkachuck-lite game. He was hitting and mucking around in the slot and the goal crease. 3 of his 4 playoff goals were scored inches away from goal. If KK wants success in this league that's the game he needs to play. He doesn't have the skating, the shooting or the IQ to play anything else.

 

[DAChampion]

KK has played regularly on the power play. Where are these magnificent passes from KK? Also, I don't see him constantly setting up his unworthy wingers and them constantly missing. Occasionally, every second or third game, he makes a good pass as he did with Evans last night but you know what? Almost every NHLer makes those passes on occasion. You guys are blowing his offensive skill way out of proportion. He is not as skilled as many of you claim.

You're all excited about the way he played in the bubble last year. Go back and watch how he played. It wasn't a skill game. He played a Tkachuck-lite game. He was hitting and mucking around in the slot and the goal crease. 3 of his 4 playoff goals were scored inches away from goal. If KK wants success in this league that's the game he needs to play. He doesn't have the skating, the shooting or the IQ to play anything else.

Kotkaniemi played very well on the power play the previous game with Romanov and Caulfield. They generated multiple significant chances, in spite of both being on the wrong side.

 

[Habs Halifax]

In terms of 3rd overall, at the same point in their careers, were you guys as frustrated with Galchenyuk as you are with Kotkaniemi? Or was the general sentiment one was ahead of the other at the same point. Cheers

We drafted KK knowing it was a long term development road. He needs to fill into that frame before we know where he is. The difference between Chucky and KK is one has higher hockey IQ and is a true center with vision and play making skills.

So until KK fills into the frame and improves his skating (edge work and strength to deal with contact), we can only guess. With Kotkaniemi, you see the skill and tools but his issues are lack of physical strength and ability to deal with contact when he tries to cut around the D in traffic. He's not there yet but there are little gains from year to year.

I don't think we will know for sure until KK is 23 ish. Until then, Tkachuk is better no doubt. The reason why KK was drafted was to find a big center who can solidify our lack of center depth. Will it happen? Not sure

The other areas is KK's shot. It's very good but it's not a quick release and he's yet to snip corners on a consistent level. But that shot is very good if he can improve on it and mature as a NHL player while he approaches his prime

 

[Habs Icing]

Kotkaniemi played very well on the power play the previous game with Romanov and Caulfield. They generated multiple significant chances, in spite of both being on the wrong side.

He has been on the power play all year long and you tell me he was good the last game. What about all the other games and how come he has shown very little results year long? You can't say he was played with talentless players on the PP.

 

[Habby4Life]

Do you think Caufield scores there? Game changes right away, maybe they win. Kotkaniemi finally gets a point, everyone is happy.

Don't know, he might, he might not. When KK starts doing something with his ice time he might actually play with CC and others.

And he has had better linemates this year, PP time, and has done squat with it. Perhaps in the meantime he could play with some energy, physicality, and intensity.

He's sucked this year, made little impact on games, and has been a passenger most nights. But lets continue to celebrate a pass if it helps. I remember another one 9 games ago in EDM.

on the way to Bustville.

 

[Habs Icing]

It's called watching the games, Kotkaniemi is strong at gaining the zone and at making passes.

That's one name we can give it. Another is imaging.

 

[BLONG7]

if the habs wnat to save this draft pick, in KK
send him down to the Rockets for a year, clearly the NHL is not making him better.

need to salvage this missed pick

He went last year, and was a PPG player under Bouchard. Something like 13 games, 13 points.....then played very well in the playins, and playoffs, thanks to Muller's usage of him.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Stats are just that, but the EYE test tells us all, KK can pass the puck 10 times better than Phil, because he just can.
I love Phil, in a shutdown role...he is perfect for it......................give him those types of wingers, not CC and Anderson who need a center to FEED them the puck.
Phil made one pass to CC last night, and zero to Anderson....the eye test has to be factored into all of these discussions also....KK can set people up, hence his PP time....maybe not everyone scores on the setups, but he has more talent in the o-zone than Phil.

Stats also tells us that Kotkaniemi is one of Montreal's better players at setting up high danger shots (not a high bar) and primary shot assists. He probably needs to make some fixes to his game that Suzuki made earlier (shoot more, keep skating).

Injuries certainly haven't helped Montreal, but even healthy Montreal isn't getting much scoring chance creation help from their D (Bergevin's fault) and there are some clear coaching issues, particularly the line blender.

 

[BLONG7]

We drafted KK knowing it was a long term development road. He needs to fill into that frame before we know where he is. The difference between Chucky and KK is one has higher hockey IQ and is a true center with vision and play making skills.

So until KK fills into the frame and improves his skating (edge work and strength to deal with contact), we can only guess. With Kotkaniemi, you see the skill and tools but his issues are lack of physical strength and ability to deal with contact when he tries to cut around the D in traffic. He's not there yet but there are little gains from year to year.

I don't think we will know for sure until KK is 23 ish. Until then, Tkachuk is better no doubt. The reason why KK was drafted was to find a big center who can solidify our lack of center depth. Will it happen? Not sure

The other areas is KK's shot. It's very good but it's not a quick release and he's yet to snip corners on a consistent level. But that shot is very good if he can improve on it and mature as a NHL player while he approaches his prime

Long term development is key phrase here...good post.

 

[Habs Icing]

We drafted KK knowing it was a long term development road.

Wait a sec I keep hearing this repeated and it doesn't fit the facts. When you say "we" who do you mean exactly? Obviously, it's not the Habs because if they saw him as a long-term development project they would not have played him in the NHL at 18 years old.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Long term development is key phrase here...good post.

Lots of fans forget the reasons why we drafted him and the knowledge we had at that time. It was clearly long term development at center for a kid who was one of the youngest in that draft year and played bottom 2C role in the finish league.

I think the feeling would be different with our fan base if he started in the NHL at age 20 vs 18.

 

[DAChampion]

Lots of fans forget the reasons why we drafted him and the knowledge we had at that time. It was clearly long term development at center for a kid who was one of the youngest in that draft year and played bottom 2C role in the finish league.

I think the feeling would be different with our fan base if he started in the NHL at age 20 vs 18.

A player developing without ice time is like a plant growing without sunlight and water.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wait a sec I keep hearing this repeated and it doesn't fit the facts. When you say "we" who do you mean exactly? Obviously, it's not the Habs because if they saw him as a long-term development project they would not have played him in the NHL at 18 years old.

We being a large % of our fan base and the Habs management (before and at the time of the draft). There were many posts about it in the draft thread. Lots of us talked about KK being the right pick but Tkachuk and others would be better earlier. You can say that was wrong or right but ignoring the context at that point in time is forgetting on purpose cause you think he should be better today at age 20

 

[BLONG7]

Lots of fans forget the reasons why we drafted him and the knowledge we had at that time. It was clearly long term development at center for a kid who was one of the youngest in that draft year and played bottom 2C role in the finish league.

I think the feeling would be different with our fan base if he started in the NHL at age 20 vs 18.

Absolutely...............and, here we are...........................habs fans wanting to eat the kid alive. Wrong on so many levels....if we weren't going to be patient, we should have taken Big Brady, and probably should have...

 

[DAChampion]

Wait a sec I keep hearing this repeated and it doesn't fit the facts. When you say "we" who do you mean exactly? Obviously, it's not the Habs because if they saw him as a long-term development project they would not have played him in the NHL at 18 years old.

I think that the habs saw him as s long term project abd then played him in the NHL at 18.

Bergevin can't stick to a plan if his life depends on it.