Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 17

[Lshap]

KKontinue

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[Deebs]

It's unfortunate some people can't be patient with the kid. I know they want big numbers right now but sometimes it doesn't happen right away for every prospect.

 

[Seb]

Leave Jesperi alone

 

[rockey]

I honestly don't see where he's sucking. He's not producing but he's throwing his body and creating turnovers into he offensive zone.

Had a nice back pass to Romanov setup Caulfield to the crossbar hit and had a nice shot for a glove save, both in the PP. If one of them goes in we'd have a different conversation right now.

I don't feel his game is much different from Suzuki in 5on5 but the latter is capitalizing in the PowerPlay while KK is not

 

[Mrb1p]

I've been a bit out of the loop, but I see that KK has only one single point (an assist) in fourteen games... that is one hell of a slump. In his defense though the rest of the team isn't doing much better since april. Although of course they would be doing better if KK was contributing.

NHL Stats

Suzuki is on fire but that's mostly his six last games, he was slumping for a while before that.

Kotkaniemis been dragged through the mud and asked to rise up through adversity by his coach. Disgusting slump for sure.

What they are asking of him isn't working though, he's never been one to "show them", some players don't have that drive and some players require other buttons to be pushed, not just the good ol' "show me". Why aren't they going with the "I trust you" or the "I know you can"... Its hilarious that a guy payed millions to coach and that is supposed to be at the very top of his game cannot see this. But I, a lowlife culinary chef can see that some guys respond well to some situations and some don't.

If I asked A to just show me and prove to me he's worthy of being my sous-chef, he'd still be smoking pot behind the dumpster being content with his life. Instead I pulled him aside, made him realize he had talents, and now he makes even more money than me and runs his own high-end spot.
Now G, guy had a real axe to grind. He was pretty annoying and didn't have much "natural" cooking abilities and leadership abilities. The man went out of his way though to grind me and ask me every f***ing day if he could do X and Y and if he could do things as simple as staff meals. You know what ? This guy would've been an overachiever anyway, he went to school because his passion was the culinary arts, he came to me because V, his friend told him I was awesome to work with and that I had a lot of people I knew.

One is Kotkaniemi and Pacioretty, the other is Suzuki, Subban and Gallagher. The human mind doesn't fit a single mold.

 

[Mrb1p]

I honestly don't see where he's sucking. He's not producing but he's throwing his body and creating turnovers into he offensive zone.

Had a nice back pass to Romanov setup Caulfield to the crossbar hit and had a nice shot for a glove save, both in the PP. If one of them goes in we'd have a different conversation right now.

I don't feel his game is much different from Suzuki in 5on5 but the latter is capitalizing in the PowerPlay while KK is not

1. He needs to produce, no other way around it.
2. The people saying he sucks just have an axe to grind because they gush over Tkachuk.
3. Management needs to decide if they want to invest in this guy, or they'd rather just cut their losses because theyve been handling him like a grenade.

 

[26Mats]

@gillyguzzler wrote

"

Suzuki is playing with Toffoli and Armia. KK has played a lot with Toffoli and Armia. Armia is a favourite whipping boy of the experts here and they repeated incessantly how KK couldn't produce with him on the wing. But he's good enough for Suzuki?

It's not the quality of linemates, the lack of ice time and the lack of PP opportunities. It's lack of production, lack of stability with his linemates and diminished confidence of late. I'm hoping he really brings it during these last 5 games and that Ducharme finally decides on 4 set lines when the injured return."


KK was producing with Toffoli and Armia at the start of the year, before Armia went down with a concussion... And we have to be carefull about extrapolating from a small sample size. Armia has always done well in sports but hasn't been able to maintain it. But I think he may fit with Suzuki and Toffoli. His puck possession skills and good hands may work long term with them.

Is for KK, I'd like to see Evans-Kk-Caufield, Perry-Kk-Caufield, or Caufield-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher, and maybe Anderson-Kk-Caufield. Though I'm not sure KK and Anderson are a match.​

 

[angusyoung]

It's unfortunate sone people can't be patient with the kid. I know they want big numbers right now but sometimes it doesn't happen right away for every prospect.

No rush with him. Look at what has happened with Domi, he has under-performed as well and was moved all over the lineup and then a healthy scratch. Others are/were playing better,it happens. At least KK is young and could hone his skills elsewhere and then get another look.

 

[BLONG7]

The coach throws this kid under the bus, yet will look the other way when his certain pets don't play well.......I really think Dom has serious issues some nights when handing out TOI.
Will say it again..................this kid is only 20 yrs old. This should probably be his first season, but somehow it's his 3rd season.
Patience guys......

 

[morhilane]

Suzuki is playing with Toffoli and Armia. KK has played a lot with Toffoli and Armia. Armia is a favourite whipping boy of the experts here and they repeated incessantly how KK couldn't produce with him on the wing. But he's good enough for Suzuki?

From Natural Stat Trick line stats tool, on 5v5 (as KK only played 5v5 with them and the line was never put back together under Ducharme):

Toffoli/KK/Armia TOI : 54:52 GF 5, GA 1
Toffoli/Suzuki/Armia TOI: 100:42 GF 5, GA 2

I actually expected the Suzuki version to have more GF...

 

[Tyson]

I like this kid and hope he pans out for himself and for the team.

We can't change the fact that he was rushed but that is still a valid topic of conversation.

Only 20 and deserves alot more patience

 

[sandviper]

I like this kid and hope he pans out for himself and for the team.

We can't change the fact that he was rushed but that is still a valid topic of conversation.

Only 20 and deserves alot more patience

Sorry @Tyson, this is the KK thread. Only absolutes and hot takes are accepted here.

In seriousness, well said.

 

[Sorinth]

If you look at GF/60 for Kotkaniemi's line it's actually been pretty good. Generally anything over 3.3 is good as it's a goal a game (18min ice time). The only line combinations for KK that doesn't meet that 3.3 value are:
Tatar - Armia @ 3.2
Byron - Lehkonen @ 2.5
Lehkonen - Armia @ 0.0
and his time at wing

Montreal Canadiens 2020-21: Most goals scored per 60 minutes

So when paired with good wingers his line has produced well even if Kotkaniemi wasn't getting points and that's worth something especially since that hasn't always been the case for the others.

 

[Doc5]

Did you all see the sequence where Kotkaniemi was controlling the puck in the offensive zone with 2 or 3 leafs on him (Matthews being one of them). KK eventually comes out with possession. No one on the Team can do that. Maybe Armia but this wasn’t even along the boards so idk if he could.

This is just one example of the toolset that he has been showing. So for those saying that KK hasn’t really showed anything to say that he can produce offensively so far, it’s not true. He’s showing great physicality, great puck control, excellent passer and we all know he has a great shot. He’s going to put it all together one day soon.

 

[417]

1. He needs to produce, no other way around it.
2. The people saying he sucks just have an axe to grind because they gush over Tkachuk.
3. Management needs to decide if they want to invest in this guy, or they'd rather just cut their losses because theyve been handling him like a grenade.

To me...that's where it's at.

I don't see a team or coaching staff invested in his development.

I see it with Suzuki, Romanov...not with Kotkaniemi.

They just don't currently see Kotkaniemi as crucial to the current hope/success of the team.

He's a bit player...so expect bit performances.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Nobody criticized Toffoli, it was Armia, Toffoli was doing very good with KK early in the season.

c'mon now ...

Toffoli and Armia are essentialy the same player, theyre so f***ing slow I dont understand how anyone can look at this line and think "Oh, that'll work"
Also, how stupid is it to move Toffoli to LW to accomodate Armia...

 

[1909]

c'mon now ...

Toffoli on LW has scored 28 f***ing goals.....

 

[canucklover123]

From Natural Stat Trick line stats tool, on 5v5 (as KK only played 5v5 with them and the line was never put back together under Ducharme):

Toffoli/KK/Armia TOI : 54:52 GF 5, GA 1
Toffoli/Suzuki/Armia TOI: 100:42 GF 5, GA 2

I actually expected the Suzuki version to have more GF...

Wasn’t the kk line in tact at the start of the year when TT was torching the nucks and we were scoring SH at will.

i believe Suzuki was with that line where some wanted him scratched because he looked like ass for an extended period of time

would definitely sway the numbers I believe

 

[le_sean]

I honestly don't see where he's sucking. He's not producing but he's throwing his body and creating turnovers into he offensive zone.

Had a nice back pass to Romanov setup Caulfield to the crossbar hit and had a nice shot for a glove save, both in the PP. If one of them goes in we'd have a different conversation right now.

I don't feel his game is much different from Suzuki in 5on5 but the latter is capitalizing in the PowerPlay while KK is not

Very simplistic way of looking at this. Suzuki 10 points in his last 6 games. 4 are PP points. KK 0 points in last 6 games. So it’s not the PP that’s driving Nick over KK.

Either way, it’s not a competition between the two, we have both. But to not be concerned with KK’s offensive potential is wrong. I think he shows a lot of other nice things, the type of player you can trust defensively, he’ll hit, he’s starting to win faceoffs. But offensively? Huge question marks. He certainly doesn’t suck as an overall player though.

 

[Gravity]

Now with Lekhonen and Evans. My gawd is it so hard to put Caufield there? But at least he's back down the middle so it's a start......

 

[26Mats]

Now with Lekhonen and Evans. My gawd is it so hard to put Caufield there? But at least he's back down the middle so it's a start......

Evan's-kk-Caufield or Kk-Evans-Caufield.

Also, Lehkonen was great with Staal and Perry. Why not reunite them.

 

[Gravity]

Evan's-kk-Caufield or Kk-Evans-Caufield.

Also, Lehkonen was great with Staal and Perry. Why not reunite them.

KK down the middle please. I've been clamoring for Anderson-KK-CC

 

[Trabdy2]

Kotkaniemi needs to get stronger before he finds more consistent success with the style of game he can excel at. That's my two cents.

He's just too weak on the puck right now. I still think he has a bright future, but there needs to be some patience. I expect there will be lots more ups and downs before we see consistency.

 

[Mrb1p]

Now with Lekhonen and Evans. My gawd is it so hard to put Caufield there? But at least he's back down the middle so it's a start......

I like this line. A lot of speed, Im sure well see success.

 

[Gravity]

I like this line. A lot of speed, Im sure well see success.

Speed but no finish....