Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 14 (mod warning post #657)

[MaynardJames]

Not even this year, BT is the better player on a shitty team. I said it earlier, for a 3rd ova, neither is an exciting pick or a game changer. One is less MEH than the other, IMO, that’s BT.

What's the deal with bringing the shitty team Ottawa has to compare two players ? In fact it benefit BT, he play around 19 minutes a night with 4 on PP. Plays with a good center all the time, Norris or Stuetzle, no pressure to win or perform. While KK has less TOI (14) and less PP (2) and the shadow of becoming the best center product by Montreal since Beliveau on his back.

As I said before, put BT over JK here and you might be happier but we are not closer to a cup in any way.

BT was the least needed type for us in that draft. There's no way Timmins pick him ahead of Hughes, Boqvist or Zadina if we don't pick KK.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Folks,

Too many personal attacks in this thread and mods are getting tired of cleaning it up. You're free to support or attack players but you're not free to do so with posters.

Also, if you see a post you think should be removed, report it. Don't respond to it and get dragged into something.

Thanks.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Haha: 24v19, I’ll sarcastically go with no if that helps you.

holy cow 5 more points in 4 more games. You're right it's a LANDSLIDE!

 

[Habby4Life]

holy cow 5 more points in 4 more games. You're right it's a LANDSLIDE!

It is, it is, A LANDSLIDE! A 5 point LANDSLIDE!

 

[26Mats]

Folks,

Too many personal attacks in this thread and mods are getting tired of cleaning it up. You're free to support or attack players but you're not free to do so with posters.

Also, if you see a post you think should be removed, report it. Don't respond to it and get dragged into something.

Thanks.

I would recommend clamping down on the egregious cursing.

It just adds negativity and brings down the quality of the boards.

 

[1909]

Do the people in here who swoon over Tkachuk actually watch Sens games??...cuz if you do, what's the Love Affair with him??...yeah, he's got great physical tools and no one, not even Brendan Gallagher, throws more terrible-angle low-risk shots at the net than Brady...has he actually improved his game at all since coming into the League and being handed 1st line minutes and PP time??...not that I've seen; he's still the exact same player he was when he was drafted, a big, physical, low-IQ winger who's progression in three years has been of a big, physical, low-IQ winger...yup, he's got that Tkachuk nasty streak and he's a bit bigger than his old man and older brother...and also less talented...both his old man & his older brother were almost PPG players by their 3rd year, how's Brady's 3rd year going??...right, pretty much the exact same as his 1st...and his 2nd...so is his "peak" that of either of the other Tkachuk's??...or is it exactly where he's stagnated at in his 3 year career so far??...

...and so now we look at Kotkaniemi's progression in his 3-year career so far...and let's, just for fun, compare it to another kid who had trouble out of the gate and was blasted for years about his high draft position and lack of production despite his visible progression as a player every year; a certain #14 for Philly who didn't fully hit his stride until his 7th year in the NHL...somewhat underwhelming 1st year...struggled in the 2nd year and sent to minors (both of them)...progression in 3rd year (KK actually a bit more than Couts)...progression, not stagnation...does that mean Kotkaniemi is the next Couturier; of course not, however it does show that he is progressing as a player and continues to grow into the NHL game at a higher level than, oh, let's say a certain big body over in Ottawa who was drafted just behind him...does that mean Brady can't progress as well; again, of course not, however we have yet to see any evidence of growth in his game thus far while Kotkaniemi has shown growth in every aspect of his game at the NHL level...

Personally, I take Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk all day every day right now and, until either Brady shows us more than he has or Jesperi falls of the proverbial cliff in his development, I don't see that changing any time soon...

Just a reminder.... Tkachuk is playing since three seasons on one of the very worst NHL team. and he is always playing great games vs the Habs.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Just a reminder.... Tkachuk is playing since three seasons on one of the very worst NHL team. and he is always playing great games vs the Habs.

Just a reminder, Montreal's record since Kotkaniemi entered the League is quite comparable to Ottawa's...or have you conveniently forgotten that??...

 

[malton]

Just a reminder.... Tkachuk is playing since three seasons on one of the very worst NHL team. and he is always playing great games vs the Habs.

Tkachuk has been a steady 40pt player for his first 3 seasons. The way people are talking on here you'd think he was putting up more than double that.

 

[Habby4Life]

Tkachuk has been a steady 40pt player for his first 3 seasons. The way people are talking on here you'd think he was putting up more than double that.

Well it’s not like KK has been tearing it up. Same could be said. Not the best draft year for having the 3rd ova. Time will tell.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Well it’s not like KK has been tearing it up. Same could be said.

Kotkaniemi has also progressed every year...how's Brady's progression??...

 

[Habby4Life]

Kotkaniemi has also progressed every year...how's Brady's progression??...

Not true KK stunk last year and was in the A.

 

[malcb33]

Just a reminder.... Tkachuk is playing since three seasons on one of the very worst NHL team. and he is always playing great games vs the Habs.

While you're right, he's playing on a garbage team, from what I've seen Tkachuk has had steady linemates, a clear role and without checking probably more PP time as well.

We knew at the time Tkachuk was the more NHL-ready player and KK was a long-term project. IMO that continues to be true, especially with how young and raw KK is still.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Not true KK stunk last year and was in the A.

...and had improved drastically when he can back...PROGRESSION...again, how's Brady's progression going??...

 

[Habby4Life]

...and had improved drastically when he can back...PROGRESSION...again, how's Brady's progression going??...

ITs been A+! It would be even better if he played on the Habs!

 

[LaP]

...and had improved drastically when he can back...PROGRESSION...again, how's Brady's progression going??...

If you see significant progression in JK's play i don't know what to say honestly. He did not progress much. He's a little bit more consistent but that's not saying much after his last season.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

ITs been A+! It would be even better if he played on the Habs!

...right...Year One - 40-odd points...Year Two - 40-odd points...Year Three - 40-odd points (pro-rated)...I can see this debate isn't going anywhere, so...

If you see significant progression in JK's play i don't know what to say honestly. He did not progress much. He's a little bit more consistent but that's not saying much after his last season.

Guess we see things differently, cuz I see a lot of progression in his game, especially in the finer details...has he got a ways to go, yes...is he getting there steadily, I believe he is...

 

[crosbyshow]

No, its not. The shot you see him take is just this way, its the same thing as throwing a punch, not all punch have the same purpose. It's his shot selection that isn't good and he needs to work on.

The long wind up before the shot isn't because he has a bad release, it's because thats the shot he chooses, power over speed, every player tend to use those, unless Im mistaken, Suzuki scored two of them on the PP prior in march.

I do want him to use other shots in his arsenal though, less power, more speed.



Nobody thinks he is done, we are questionning his development and the willingness of the team to do so, stop with the dumb posts pls.

Kk is not able to shoot while he skates off wing like Messier or Recchi. Every time coming in off wing, he is slowing down , turn his hips for the weight transfer and then he shots...and every f....time there is a blade coming for the deflection.

I hope that Ducharme or Burrows are aware of that and will work with him in the next few months.

Kk is not able to shot when the puck is in front of him like Sakic and many others.

In fact Kk has the same problem than Kostitsyn...by far the best shooters in practice with time and space but average in fast NHL game situation.

Nothing to do with shot selection..but a technical problem that he could improve if somebody work with him.

 

[montreal]

If you see significant progression in JK's play i don't know what to say honestly. He did not progress much. He's a little bit more consistent but that's not saying much after his last season.

everyone's definition of significant will vary, the important thing is that the physical tools have shown a lot of progress, the skating, the strength, the balance. It's clearly not a finished product yet though, there's work to be done still for sure. I think everyone should be happy with that, as the Habs took a big risk taking a project that high especially when it was clear by then how poor the current management had been at developing talent.

 

[LaP]

everyone's definition of significant will vary, the important thing is that the physical tools have shown a lot of progress, the skating, the strength, the balance. It's clearly not a finished product yet though, there's work to be done still for sure. I think everyone should be happy with that, as the Habs took a big risk taking a project that high especially when it was clear by then how poor the current management had been at developing talent.

There's not that much time though. If you check the top 30 scorers of the last 10 years you'll see pretty much all of them had at least one ~50 points season in their first 4 NHL years. It's very uncommon for a top player to not have at least one season close to 50 in their first 4 NHL years (no matter the amount of games played in those seasons could be just 10 games). I guess it depends on your expectation. My expectation for a 3rd overall pick is not a 50-60 points guy with an occasional 70 points season. I expect a close to ppg guy. Right now it's not looking like it.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

Kotkaniemi is on the pace for 44 points this season in a full 82 games. He's still only 20 years old.
Suzuki is on pace for 53 points in 82 games and he's 21.

Not to pressure them but when they are 24-25 they should be putting up 60 points.

 

[montreal]

There's not that much time though. If you check the top 30 scorers of the last 10 years you'll see pretty much all of them had at least one ~50 points season in their first 4 NHL years. It's very uncommon for a top player to not have at least one season close to 50 in their first 4 NHL years (no matter the amount of games played in those seasons could be just 10 games). I guess it depends on your expectation. My expectation for a 3rd overall pick is not a 50-60 points guy with an occasional 70 points season. I expect a close to ppg guy. Right now it's not looking like it.

there's no way to know this yet, he shouldn't have been in the NHL at 18, but he was able to produce in the 30's, this year he's on pace for the 40's, so 50's shouldn't be a problem for him. If he can continue to progress with his physical tools, and for both he and Suzuki, they are playmakers first, so you have to give them talented goal scorers. If Caufield is legit, whichever center gets him could be hitting 70 pts imo.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

there's no way to know this yet, he shouldn't have been in the NHL at 18, but he was able to produce in the 30's, this year he's on pace for the 40's, so 50's shouldn't be a problem for him. If he can continue to progress with his physical tools, and for both he and Suzuki, they are playmakers first, so you have to give them talented goal scorers. If Caufield is legit, whichever center gets him could be hitting 70 pts imo.

I think KK will get him. Suzuki can have Anderson and Tifoli to even things out.

 

[Mrb1p]

There's not that much time though. If you check the top 30 scorers of the last 10 years you'll see pretty much all of them had at least one ~50 points season in their first 4 NHL years. It's very uncommon for a top player to not have at least one season close to 50 in their first 4 NHL years (no matter the amount of games played in those seasons could be just 10 games). I guess it depends on your expectation. My expectation for a 3rd overall pick is not a 50-60 points guy with an occasional 70 points season. I expect a close to ppg guy. Right now it's not looking like it.

KK is producing at over 50 points per season on a p/60 basis, he just doesn't have the playing time.

In the last two decades theres not one player that produced 50 points playing the minutes KK has played so far.

 

[CAUFIELD]

I

KK is producing at over 50 points per season on a p/60 basis, he just doesn't have the playing time.

In the last two decades theres not one player that produced 50 points playing the minutes KK has played so far.

Kk progression from last year is definitely satisfying. He needs to improve his balance/edge work again and it will give him the fraction of second he is missing to set up more plays or unleashed in heavy (too slow) shot.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I think KK will get him. Suzuki can have Anderson and Tifoli to even things out.

Suzuki will need to be insulated for the playoffs. Especially if opponents decide to clog the middle he'll need size on his wings. KK will force his way through and even if he doesn't, if CC is on his wing, he has an elite outlet forcing teams to adjust their strategy. Honestly, I don't think Suzuki's style meshes as well with CC as KKs would