Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
But 400 goals ??? HOW DO YOU DISPUTE RAW STATS LIKE THIS?
Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 14 (mod warning post #657)
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WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Ok let's use the numbers that matter.
Despite more PP time and ice-time and playing the wing
Brady Tkachuk has
Kotkaniemi has
Can't believe we missed out on 6 points (and a 20 swing in minus) at the wing!!
Horrible decision..
HabsWhiteKnightLOL
Registered User
You don't you send ur 3oa whos been 1 of the best forward lately to the wings or center him with byron and lekhonen and give all the good players to the veteran!!!
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Damn, maybe Ill have to dismantle my Kotkaniemi shrine in my living room, clearly a bust.
CHfan1
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- Apr 23, 2012
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You have to be patient, just cause someone produces more now doesn’t mean they will in the future.
This is the stats from the 2011 draft class in their D+3 draft year (2013-14). Who would you take based on these stats:
Player A 81 games 23 g 36 a 59 p
Player B 78 games 19 g 28 a 47 p
Player C 80 games 20 g 19 a 39 p
Player D 82 games 13 g 26 a 39 p
Player E 63 games 13 g 21 a 34 p
Player F 69 games 9 g 19 a 28 p
Player G 52 games 9 g 9 a 18 p
Player A - Palat
Player B - Saad
Player C - Shaw
Player D - Couturier
Player E - Sheifele
Player F - Huberdeau
Player G - Kucherov
Player B - Saad
Player C - Shaw
Player D - Couturier
Player E - Sheifele
Player F - Huberdeau
Player G - Kucherov
dackelljuneaubulis02
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What about this season? Like WTK shown, with more minutes and more PP time Tkachuk is prorated to score a measly 6 more points.
You can't just ignore playing time because you think it's 'twisted math' lol.
I'm not saying KK is better. All I'm saying is you dismissing important context is a little loopy. A little wacky.
I get it he could be a late bloomer, I just don’t see it. I don’t see the O upside. I know it wrinkles some people’s feathers but so be it.
Habit11
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- Dec 18, 2009
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He's looked good the last two games, and should move back to center immediately because Staal barely looks like 4th line material and his line has 0 GF and 4 GA at 5on5.
You’re correct on context. Ice time is important, so is team talent, and ones line mates, etc but at the end of the day actual output matters. And over the last three seasons it’s no contest. IMO, BT is and will be the better player. I don’t see much of an upside with KK, certainly not 1c which is disappointing for an 3ova pick.
It may wrinkle some people the wrong way but so be it.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Here's a flip side argument
Kotkaniemi is on a progression path where he's gotten better results than his rookie year.
Tkachuk is on pace for his 3rd 45 pt season.. which means his production has been consistent but not gotten better since his rookie season, should it not be a cause for concern that there isn't growth in Brady as a player?
The fact is.. it's really, really, really early and you can make hot takes about anything but we won't know who is the better player for a long time. It isn't who gets out of the gate the fastest who is the best player.
David Perron got there before Pacioretty and looked more talented doing it too.. I don't think there's a person in the world dumb enough to want Perron over Pacioretty now but boy was it annoying for awhile here because of that.
Do the people in here who swoon over Tkachuk actually watch Sens games??...cuz if you do, what's the Love Affair with him??...yeah, he's got great physical tools and no one, not even Brendan Gallagher, throws more terrible-angle low-risk shots at the net than Brady...has he actually improved his game at all since coming into the League and being handed 1st line minutes and PP time??...not that I've seen; he's still the exact same player he was when he was drafted, a big, physical, low-IQ winger who's progression in three years has been of a big, physical, low-IQ winger...yup, he's got that Tkachuk nasty streak and he's a bit bigger than his old man and older brother...and also less talented...both his old man & his older brother were almost PPG players by their 3rd year, how's Brady's 3rd year going??...right, pretty much the exact same as his 1st...and his 2nd...so is his "peak" that of either of the other Tkachuk's??...or is it exactly where he's stagnated at in his 3 year career so far??...
...and so now we look at Kotkaniemi's progression in his 3-year career so far...and let's, just for fun, compare it to another kid who had trouble out of the gate and was blasted for years about his high draft position and lack of production despite his visible progression as a player every year; a certain #14 for Philly who didn't fully hit his stride until his 7th year in the NHL...somewhat underwhelming 1st year...struggled in the 2nd year and sent to minors (both of them)...progression in 3rd year (KK actually a bit more than Couts)...progression, not stagnation...does that mean Kotkaniemi is the next Couturier; of course not, however it does show that he is progressing as a player and continues to grow into the NHL game at a higher level than, oh, let's say a certain big body over in Ottawa who was drafted just behind him...does that mean Brady can't progress as well; again, of course not, however we have yet to see any evidence of growth in his game thus far while Kotkaniemi has shown growth in every aspect of his game at the NHL level...
Personally, I take Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk all day every day right now and, until either Brady shows us more than he has or Jesperi falls of the proverbial cliff in his development, I don't see that changing any time soon...
...and so now we look at Kotkaniemi's progression in his 3-year career so far...and let's, just for fun, compare it to another kid who had trouble out of the gate and was blasted for years about his high draft position and lack of production despite his visible progression as a player every year; a certain #14 for Philly who didn't fully hit his stride until his 7th year in the NHL...somewhat underwhelming 1st year...struggled in the 2nd year and sent to minors (both of them)...progression in 3rd year (KK actually a bit more than Couts)...progression, not stagnation...does that mean Kotkaniemi is the next Couturier; of course not, however it does show that he is progressing as a player and continues to grow into the NHL game at a higher level than, oh, let's say a certain big body over in Ottawa who was drafted just behind him...does that mean Brady can't progress as well; again, of course not, however we have yet to see any evidence of growth in his game thus far while Kotkaniemi has shown growth in every aspect of his game at the NHL level...
Personally, I take Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk all day every day right now and, until either Brady shows us more than he has or Jesperi falls of the proverbial cliff in his development, I don't see that changing any time soon...
dackelljuneaubulis02
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dackelljuneaubulis02
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you said actual output matters. and with no 'twisted math', Tkachuk has a .06 better PPG than KK.
That's not a contest?
angusyoung
The life of..The Party
He does have a good shot,but he's too slow and gets checked or blocked from using it.
.06 better this year and .21 over three years on the second worst team in the league. Like I said, to you, not me. I’d rather have BT. I will say this neither BT or KK is an exciting pick for 3ova if it helps some people.
Time will tell.
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dackelljuneaubulis02
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HuGo Burner Acc
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In terms of development, and physical maturity, I look at Teuvo Terivainen. In his D+5 year, he hit 42 points. Now, he's a 70+ point player
dackelljuneaubulis02
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Not even this year, BT is the better player on a shitty team. I said it earlier, for a 3rd ova, neither is an exciting pick or a game changer. One is less MEH than the other, IMO, that’s BT.
dackelljuneaubulis02
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lol okay once and for all. What I'm saying is his production is close to him this year. I've been talking about production the whole time.
Haha: 24v19, I’ll sarcastically go with no if that helps you.
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Sebastian Aho is a big improvement over Philip Danault (Terivainen played with PD in Chicago before PD was traded to the Habs, that was the year before his 42 points season).
KK's biggest hurdle in term of production is actually the rest of the line-up, not really his maturity. He's already producing at a 0.5 pace despite getting plugged all over the line-up at 20. If the team had more 70+ pts potential players there, he would have more points already (as would Suzuki).
A line of KK/Suzuki/Tiffoli would be amusing to watch.
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