Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 10

[McGees]

I can definitely see he is a step quicker and tighter turns/edge work. Good to see.

 

[OldCraig71]

How can anyone really say that his skating is better based on a few clips from a friendly practice?

 

[DAChampion]

How can anyone really say that his skating is better based on a few clips from a friendly practice?

Eric Engels probably wants to stay in the good graces of management.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I've been a powerskating instructor for over 25 years. Here's what I see from that small clip - improved hockey posture. You should be able to draw a straight line down from the shoulders, to knees, to toes when you're skating forwards. When skating backwards your shoulders should line up with your heels. I can spot correct or incorrect hockey posture almost immediately and that clip is more than enough to show me that.

I've been saying for a while that Jesperi needs a powerskating instructor to help correct his poor posture. Likely due to surgeries and growth spurts, he always appeared lanky and unbalanced on the ice. He fell down a lot and didn't always have the quickness (this is always going to be difficult for him given how long his legs are). His posture was leaning forward way too much, so that his knees were far over his toes, his shoulders were as well. Not only does this upset your balance, it also hinders your ability to turn, stop, and go quickly. It limits your stride length (which we can't really see on that clip).

To understand how poor posture can affect your stride you can try this out at home - stand with your feet shoulder width apart, then keeping your left leg where it is, reach out to the side with your right leg and see how far you can stretch. Now try the same exercise but start (and stay) in proper posture, with your knees bent so they line up over your toes. You should be able to reach almost twice as far with a good knee bend. So having a good knee bend will help you lengthen your stride, making you a more efficient, powerful skater.

But what about Jesperi? He has a good knee bend...even more than over toes. Well, try it. Stand up and, like Jesperi, bend your knees until they are way past your toes. Bring your shoulders forward too. If you can stand up in the position, congrats (how are you doing this? are you in microgravity??). Most people can't do it, and at the very least you can see how taxing and unbalanced this posture is.

However, on the ice, you won't fall down, you're more likely to just glide forward like a downhill skier, because when you rock forward on the ice, your blades glide. But being on your toes means you're off balance and if you need to stop, turn or take a few quick strides it can be very difficult. It can be done without falling but it's not easy. Certainly you're not going to have the power, control, balance, etc you would have if you have proper hockey posture.

Getting into this posture is tough for a lot of people. Again, try standing and walking around with your knees over your toes and your shoulders over your knees. Easy for a few seconds, but try 45-60. For a lot of guys, including big guys, this is tough. Your legs burn. But that's because they are flexed and ready to load. Starting in this position means you're always ready - to be hit, to turn and go, to fight for a puck, to take off. And after you get used to it and build up your leg strength, it becomes easy and automatic and allows a skater to become far more efficient.

I can see Jesperi in much better posture now, but I see him struggling to stay in that posture. It's probably because he's new to it and either he's forgetting or he's feeling that burn. But the fact that he's made this adjustment is a big thing to me. I hope he continues to work on it because skating is so important to the game. As a big guy, he's going to need to work on becoming an efficient skater, not necessarily a burner. And he's doing it, so that's great!

Good to hear that a power skating coach noticed improvement in KK's skating technique. A couple of things from my perspective....

Yes...his posture has always needed work. I've been saying this since before he was drafted. You mention that you always thought he needed a power skating coach. I would bet a lot money that a #3 pick who played on national teams has had multiple power skating coaches over the years.

My other point is that it's great that his posture looked good in a low intensity flow drill. Improvements can certainly be made to skating efficiency and I'm a believer based on what his coach said but I question whether improvements can be properly diagnosed in that very short clip we saw of him in that situation. In my experience developing hockey players, one of the hardest things is for a player to transform years of muscle memory into a newly overhauled skating technique in a game situation. I've seen it many times, new technique is there but default technique often comes back in games.

I totally believe that KK's skating has improved going by what his coach said and I'm excited about it. My only point was that I don't think that short clip in that situation conclusively tells us a lot. His coach saw him throughout the entire practice and his praise is good enough for me.

Anyhow, leave it to Habs HF Boards to dissect and debate a player's skating over a 10-15 second video even if we both agree that his skating has improved.

 

[ahmedou]

Basu: Where doe Kotkaniemi fit in right now (TSN690 Audio)

@2:56 to @11:19

“Kotkaniemi worked hard in his last year off-season, he didn’t work on the right things. He was on the ice 5 days a week during the off-season, but he didn’t practice with other players. Armia spent his off-season, where he would go 2 or 3 times a week to Helsinki (3 hours from Pori) to practice with other NHL players. Kotkaniemi declined the invitation. He trained at home, overseen by his dad (a former Liiga head coach), and apparently focused on strength training vs the on-ice stuff Armia was doing. That included one session on ice and one session off ice every day. Obviously, it wasn't the right approach and though he gained mass, he was a step behind come training camp. This year after getting all-clear after the spleen injury he went with the same skating + strength training combo. This the right approach. Hopefully, it'll pan out.”

“Julien has been very vague and noncommittal when talking about Kotkaniemi, so he'll need to earn his place on the team. It doesn’t look like we've a roster spot penciled in for him right off the bat.”

“Kotkaniemi’s confidence take such a hit in year two because he had a few injuries this year, which seemed to happen every time he was picking up momentum.”

 

[smirob]

Really want to see him do well (while still losing to the Pens and landing Lafreniere)

Lafreniere-Kotkaniemi-Caufield?????

 

[McGees]

How can anyone really say that his skating is better based on a few clips from a friendly practice?

Attention to details

 

[Skip Bayless]

How can anyone really say that his skating is better based on a few clips from a friendly practice?

Because he's skating in game situations in those videos, not eating churros.

It doesn't take a full game to decipher things such as mechanics.

 

[ahmedou]

 

[ahmedou]

#DanaultonKotkaniemi(PC:20/07/15)

“I can tell you his shot is really devastating. He got a little tougher, a little bigger. He obviously gained some maturity out there. I've only seen him for three practices - I need to see him in a game situation - but I like what I see so far.”

 

[Hins77]

I have been critical abou him this season because I know his high assets of skills. He showed last year. Infortunatly. He hit a wall this season. Its always happen to youngs players. The guy had too much confidence maybe and just hit a wall. Right now, it’s about how he will react about it. We don’t have to forget this guy, just turn 20 this summer. At 19/20, suzuki were far from the nhl. Right now hés just amazing. Will he become a superstar a la kopitar/getzlaf. Probably not. Will he become a next Mikko Koivu, second line center. I think he could.

 

[ahmedou]

Everyone: Bigger, Solid, Man, Etc

Me: Mint Beard

 

[Kriss E]

Good to hear that a power skating coach noticed improvement in KK's skating technique. A couple of things from my perspective....

Yes...his posture has always needed work. I've been saying this since before he was drafted. You mention that you always thought he needed a power skating coach. I would bet a lot money that a #3 pick who played on national teams has had multiple power skating coaches over the years.

My other point is that it's great that his posture looked good in a low intensity flow drill. Improvements can certainly be made to skating efficiency and I'm a believer based on what his coach said but I question whether improvements can be properly diagnosed in that very short clip we saw of him in that situation. In my experience developing hockey players, one of the hardest things is for a player to transform years of muscle memory into a newly overhauled skating technique in a game situation. I've seen it many times, new technique is there but default technique often comes back in games.

I totally believe that KK's skating has improved going by what his coach said and I'm excited about it. My only point was that I don't think that short clip in that situation conclusively tells us a lot. His coach saw him throughout the entire practice and his praise is good enough for me.

Anyhow, leave it to Habs HF Boards to dissect and debate a player's skating over a 10-15 second video even if we both agree that his skating has improved.

Agreed. I would also add, those are little practice drills after a 4 months hiatus and everyone is way rusty.
That said, it's better than him looking like crap so I'll take it, but all that matters is game time.

 

[OldCraig71]

Because he's skating in game situations in those videos, not eating churros.

It doesn't take a full game to decipher things such as mechanics.

 

[Legend123]

Still has that strange leg motion I've never seen before in a nhl player

 

[OldCraig71]

Still has that strange leg motion I've never seen before in a nhl player

He is a lanky boy.

 

[Legend123]

He is a lanky boy.

Players like scefiele and pettersson also were lanky and had skating concerns but neither skated so strangely.
He needs to fix that

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Tell'em, Al!

 

[Video Coach]

Good to hear that a power skating coach noticed improvement in KK's skating technique. A couple of things from my perspective....

Yes...his posture has always needed work. I've been saying this since before he was drafted. You mention that you always thought he needed a power skating coach. I would bet a lot money that a #3 pick who played on national teams has had multiple power skating coaches over the years.

My other point is that it's great that his posture looked good in a low intensity flow drill. Improvements can certainly be made to skating efficiency and I'm a believer based on what his coach said but I question whether improvements can be properly diagnosed in that very short clip we saw of him in that situation. In my experience developing hockey players, one of the hardest things is for a player to transform years of muscle memory into a newly overhauled skating technique in a game situation. I've seen it many times, new technique is there but default technique often comes back in games.

I totally believe that KK's skating has improved going by what his coach said and I'm excited about it. My only point was that I don't think that short clip in that situation conclusively tells us a lot. His coach saw him throughout the entire practice and his praise is good enough for me.

Anyhow, leave it to Habs HF Boards to dissect and debate a player's skating over a 10-15 second video even if we both agree that his skating has improved.

Yes, you're right, there's no way he hasn't had many power skating coaches.

But I wonder if he's got a go-to person that works with him on an ongoing basis. Some teams, like the Leafs with Barb Underhill, have a standing relationship this a coach and they consult through the year/offseason. So there's consistency there. You're not getting one person who just wants to put you on the treadmill and another who is obsessed with non-game-related edge work.

Without that consistency, it's easy for a play to fall back into their old habits and I agree it takes a long time for muscle memory to kick in. But hockey posture is (to me) the foundation. I literally won't let players start a drill if they are not in a loaded hockey posture. And that has to be drilled in again and again to players who haven't focused on it in the past. There are a lot of players that get noted for being great skaters that I think have major foundational issues but are so athletic that they can overcome them. Jesperi is not one of those guys though and he really needs to get this right.

I watched a few more grainy clips and found more evidence of what we're both talking about - improved posture and posture that lapses, due to the newness of that message in his brain. I know it's a very short clip but just watching him glide in posture as he watches the play, it's different for sure. That's your resting position so you should be able to tell within literally a second or two if the posture is correct. To me, it's obvious he has made changes. You're right, it may lapse, but it's just like posture off the ice - you can tell right away. If a person has a limp, you'll see it before they take their second step.

He's a smart kid. I'm sure he'll keep getting better. But if I was the Habs, I would have a consultant on staff to work with the guys throughout the year and offseason.

 

[TesseractPrice]

I'd say the way he was handled this season by Julien and Bergevin was so bad it would be hilarious if it wasn't kinda tragic. Kotkaniemi bought himself time after a bad camp and pre-season with his 2 goals, but was terrible coming back from his injury. I just don't understand why he wasn't sent back then. He was a nuisance on the ice, lost his confidence and neither the coach nor the GM thought that maybe they should manage their most prized young player with long term vision instead of short term

If they had sent him back in November, he would've ironed his game in all situations under Bouchard, would've gained confidence while the Habs would have fared better. Hell, he could've even been recalled after like 30 games and would have likely contributed way more than he did all season right in time for the "playoffs push"

It's great to hear he looks better, but he still has little to no pro experience on the PK, on the PP's first wave and a lot of other parts of the game. I'm sure he'll be a solid 2C one day, but we likely wasted one season of development on what looks a lot like a "can't miss" prospect. You just can't do that in today's NHL where elite players on ELC contracts are so valuable

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Players like scefiele and pettersson also were lanky and had skating concerns but neither skated so strangely.
He needs to fix that

Scheifele kept falling down and it took him until 21 to stick with the team. So if you really wish to compare him to Scheifele, expect a breakthrough season at 22-23 years of age.

People need patience. This shit isn't fixed overnight. Last couple of years of really young players just coming in and straight up dominating has risen the expectations of some people through the roof, I feel like.

 

[Legend123]

Scheifele kept falling down and it took him until 21 to stick with the team. So if you really wish to compare him to Scheifele, expect a breakthrough season at 22-23 years of age.

People need patience. This shit isn't fixed overnight. Last couple of years of really young players just coming in and straight up dominating has risen the expectations of some people through the roof, I feel like.

Im not saying anything about kotkaniemi's development but his skating stride. It remains extremely awkward for me.

 

[NewEraGM]

Really want to see him do well (while still losing to the Pens and landing Lafreniere)

Lafreniere-Kotkaniemi-Caufield?????

That looks great!!

i really like the idea of having Caufield with KK or Suzuki. Both have really great vision and I think would be great at getting Caufield the puck

 

[Scriptor]

Yes, you're right, there's no way he hasn't had many power skating coaches.

But I wonder if he's got a go-to person that works with him on an ongoing basis. Some teams, like the Leafs with Barb Underhill, have a standing relationship this a coach and they consult through the year/offseason. So there's consistency there. You're not getting one person who just wants to put you on the treadmill and another who is obsessed with non-game-related edge work.

Without that consistency, it's easy for a play to fall back into their old habits and I agree it takes a long time for muscle memory to kick in. But hockey posture is (to me) the foundation. I literally won't let players start a drill if they are not in a loaded hockey posture. And that has to be drilled in again and again to players who haven't focused on it in the past. There are a lot of players that get noted for being great skaters that I think have major foundational issues but are so athletic that they can overcome them. Jesperi is not one of those guys though and he really needs to get this right.

I watched a few more grainy clips and found more evidence of what we're both talking about - improved posture and posture that lapses, due to the newness of that message in his brain. I know it's a very short clip but just watching him glide in posture as he watches the play, it's different for sure. That's your resting position so you should be able to tell within literally a second or two if the posture is correct. To me, it's obvious he has made changes. You're right, it may lapse, but it's just like posture off the ice - you can tell right away. If a person has a limp, you'll see it before they take their second step.

He's a smart kid. I'm sure he'll keep getting better. But if I was the Habs, I would have a consultant on staff to work with the guys throughout the year and offseason.

From those videos, would you think he's lapsing because he's going against the grain?

 

[Gaston Gingras]

It looks like he did progress better when I was away for MTL coaching staff.