Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 10

[DangerDave]

Yes, which pretty much evens it out and makes it a close call but statistically Kotka was better, and was more noticeable.

He was good but Suzuki had a far greater impact. Theirs a huge difference in quality between Pittsburghs top 2 lines and the bottom 2.

KK is doing well though. He's trending in the right direction. I get you're all about the fins but swap those 2 roles and we get steamrolled.

 

[Ozmodiar]

And in that limited icetime KK was on the ice for 10 high danger scoring chances, plus in game four his icetime was increased no?

this is what I mean when write “can’t see the forest through the trees”. - picking an advanced stat or two that is complimentary to KK (the trees), while not seeing the challenge presented to Suzuki and how he stepped up vs 2 of the top centers in the league (The forest). ... not recognizing how much the team relied on #14.

Btw, ice time .... in game 4, he had more than game 3, but less than games 1 and 2.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

How Jesperi Kotkaniemi worked himself to playoff relevance for the Canadiens

He’s playing better than anyone could have reasonably expected. In four games and 43:12 of five-on-five ice time against the Penguins, Kotkaniemi had a Corsi for percentage of 64.2 percent, the best on the team by a pretty wide margin (Lehkonen was second at 57.9 percent). He was on the ice for 10 high-danger scoring chances by the Canadiens and two by the Penguins. His expected goals allowed in that time was 0.47, again, best on the team by a decent margin (Paul Byron was second at 0.76). He was one of four Canadiens players – Byron, Lehkonen and Shea Weber were the others – who played in all four games of the series and were not on the ice for a single five-on-five goal against.

Take it easy on us KK jeez

man thanks for sharing. This is so great

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

this is what I mean when write “can’t see the forest through the trees”. - picking an advanced stat or two that is complimentary to KK (the trees), while not seeing the challenge presented to Suzuki and how he stepped up vs 2 of the top centers in the league (The forest). ... not recognizing how much the team relied on #14.

Btw, ice time .... in game 4, he had more than game 3, but less than games 1 and 2.

This thread is not about vs or preference. Both are great. Please use the thread to do what it’s meant for: both discuss & appreciate a young guy taken in the top 3 by the franchise who is seen as having a chance at becoming one of the greats in Habs history. The promise they hoped for when they traded up to grab the stud is finally coming to fruition. It’s not about trying to buck it. Enjoy the show he’s putting on and yes, realize Suzuki while not the prospect KK is; is still playing great hockey and is an important cog in the future as well. He is probably robin to KK (Batman) in the end of this but we will see.

 

[Mrb1p]

this is what I mean when write “can’t see the forest through the trees”. - picking an advanced stat or two that is complimentary to KK (the trees), while not seeing the challenge presented to Suzuki and how he stepped up vs 2 of the top centers in the league (The forest). ... not recognizing how much the team relied on #14.

Btw, ice time .... in game 4, he had more than game 3, but less than games 1 and 2.

At the end of the day, KK was the best forward anytime he did hit the ice. You cant use his usage to prove he was not. If it was that easy to be all over the opponents, more would do it.

 

[Burke the Legend]

You will often see 3rd & 4th lines put up outsize numbers in the playoffs because defensive schemes are focused at the top 2 lines so ice opens up for the 3rd and 4th. This is where the Canadiens have a 5v5 advantage (as long as Danault and Suzuki can contain other teams' top 6) because they have more talent on 3rd and 4th lines than most teams so they will get lots of opportunities and will hopefully continue to capitalize which is great to see especially from KK.

 

[417]

He was good but Suzuki had a far greater impact. Theirs a huge difference in quality between Pittsburghs top 2 lines and the bottom 2.

KK is doing well though. He's trending in the right direction. I get you're all about the fins but swap those 2 roles and we get steamrolled.

not shocking...Suzuki played a lot more (deservedly so).

Different circumstances.

Kotkaniemi has a limited amount of time on ice, in specific situations and the expectation is that he makes a big impact.

Given those unfavourable circumstances, he was excellent vs the Pens.

 

[Ozmodiar]

At the end of the day, KK was the best forward anytime he did hit the ice. You cant use his usage to prove he was not. If it was that easy to be all over the opponents, more would do it.

His usage alone doesn’t prove it. It’s the usage and what he did with it. How he played vs the HOF opponent(s). There’s plenty of tape for those who care to analyze it further, to see why the coaches trust him in all facets of the game.

in any event, we’ll have to agree to disagree. If the consensus of most fans, experts, and coaches can’t convince you, I won’t be able to. The important thing is that KK’s development seems to be back on track.

 

[Mrb1p]

His usage alone doesn’t prove it. It’s the usage and what he did with it. How he played vs the HOF opponent(s). There’s plenty of tape for those who care to analyze it further, to see why the coaches trust him in all facets of the game.

in any event, we’ll have to agree to disagree. If the consensus of most fans, experts, and coaches can’t convince you, I won’t be able to. The important thing is that KK’s development seems to be back on track.

Ah, argumentum ad populum, i see.

 

[puckie]

I am worried that KK development will be ruined again by CJ. Personally, I see more potential in him than Suzuki, if KK is developed properly.

Suzuki gets more breaks and opportunity than anyone else on the team for level of play in opinion. I am sorry, I just do not think he is that great. Good player but not the next Marner, etc.

 

[Hullois]

Really loved this new version of KK, he had a couple of really good hits and seemed to relish getting physically involved, when he would try to avoid it in the past. You could tell he was a lot more solid on his skates.

Once he fills out, he will be a beast out there.

 

[ahmedou]

 

[DAChampion]

Isn't Auston Matthews 6'3? Why is he such a cream puff? Is he afraid of what might happen to his nose?

 

[DAChampion]

His usage alone doesn’t prove it. It’s the usage and what he did with it. How he played vs the HOF opponent(s). There’s plenty of tape for those who care to analyze it further, to see why the coaches trust him in all facets of the game.

in any event, we’ll have to agree to disagree. If the consensus of most fans, experts, and coaches can’t convince you, I won’t be able to. The important thing is that KK’s development seems to be back on track.

Ah, argumentum ad populum, i see.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

Clearly, the Kotkaniemi vs Suzuki argument is at an impasse. There are good arguments on both sides but no obvious verdict.

The best solution is to be scientific about it and collect more data. We need to watch them more, to see roughly 200+ minutes of the two of them combined dominating the Flyers.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Ah, argumentum ad populum, i see.

Nice try. Last time I heard that it was from an anti-vaxxer. lol. Good argument if you have a fringe opinion.

sorry if wrong, but are you the poster who argued for KK over Danault all season long? If so, the bias is showing.

 

[CHfan1]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

Clearly, the Kotkaniemi vs Suzuki argument is at an impasse. There are good arguments on both sides but no obvious verdict.

The best solution is to be scientific about it and collect more data. We need to watch them more, to see roughly 200+ minutes of the two of them combined dominating the Flyers.

When is the last time Habs fans could have a debate over which 20 year old centre (well 21 today for Suzuki) was better in a playoff series.

 

[ahmedou]

Isn't Auston Matthews 6'3? Why is he such a cream puff? Is he afraid of what might happen to his nose?

It's all about the pants

 

[Ozmodiar]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

Clearly, the Kotkaniemi vs Suzuki argument is at an impasse. There are good arguments on both sides but no obvious verdict.

The best solution is to be scientific about it and collect more data. We need to watch them more, to see roughly 200+ minutes of the two of them combined dominating the Flyers.

we’ll know after they beat the lightning!

 

[KevSkillz4]

I really think Kotkaniemi one day can have the same impact of Sebastian Aho. He got all tools to be a dominant center in the futur.

 

[CHfan1]

KK is a RFA next season. If he keeps progressing (which I think he will, but won’t hit his peak for another few years) I wonder how much he gets.

 

[FLHabs]

Well look at that, it seems we're gonna have two factions in Habs land, the church of Suzuki and the church of Kotkaniemi... I'm not really surprised to be honest, it's seems hard for us to just enjoy what we got without putting them against eachother

 

[Mrb1p]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

Clearly, the Kotkaniemi vs Suzuki argument is at an impasse. There are good arguments on both sides but no obvious verdict.

The best solution is to be scientific about it and collect more data. We need to watch them more, to see roughly 200+ minutes of the two of them combined dominating the Flyers.

The obvious verdict is that KK was the best forward in that series and that Price hauled the team on its back. No agenda, nothing. Just plain facts. Supported by both eye test and numbers.

Read below for the reasoning behind the Suzuki >> KK

Its not even subtle. Same old posters too.

Well look at that, it seems we're gonna have two factions in Habs land, the church of Suzuki and the church of Kotkaniemi... I'm not really surprised to be honest, it's seems hard for us to just enjoy what we got without putting them against eachother

Everyone loves Suzuki but not everyone loves KK, because admitting KKs good is admitting TT hit the mark, and some Timmins haters cannot have that. Its just that, a veiled attempt at discrediting Timmins.

Boring if you ask me.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The obvious verdict is that KK was the best forward in that series and that Price hauled the team on its back. No agenda, nothing. Just plain facts. Supported by both eye test and numbers.

Read below for the reasoning behind the Suzuki >> KK

Its not even subtle. Same old posters too.



Everyone loves Suzuki but not everyone loves KK, because admitting KKs good is admitting TT hit the mark, and some Timmins haters cannot have that. Its just that, a veiled attempt at discrediting Timmins.

Boring if you ask me.

Really? That seems weird, because Timmins would have been responsible for pushing Bergevin to acquire Suzuki.

 

[FLHabs]

Everyone loves Suzuki but not everyone loves KK, because admitting KKs good is admitting TT hit the mark, and some Timmins haters cannot have that. Its just that, a veiled attempt at discrediting Timmins.

Boring if you ask me.

Yea I see ppl hating on KK because they didn't pick Hughes, seem so dumb to me, and just pure bitterness. Even if you feel like Hughes was the right pick, doesn't mean you got to hate on KK lol, like both are gonna be great players, just enjoy the ride ppl...

 

[JimboJay]

Assuming that Julien continues to roll Suzuki and Danaults lines against the flyers' top 6, JK is going to have to once again be great. I think he and his linemates are up to the task.

If we're going to make any noise in the playoffs, its going to all come down to our bottom 6. We cant beat (m)any team's top 6 (but can play with them) but our depth is where we have strength. Not many teams would be playing JK, Drouin and Domi in their bottom 6.