Jeremy Jacobs sends a strong signal Houston is next but relocation is unlikely

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That is a lone minor league team lost between top tier professional teams. Vancouver struggles to support its junior team.

Plus the same argument can be made for the Houston Aeros. Has little to do with the city and everything to do with owner's decisions and venue availability.

nope, the Aeros were majority owned by an NHL Team, that's the difference between that faulty example, remember, the name Aeros was not retained when the lease expired and the Wild aka MSE outright bought the franchise

 

[Fenway]

In what way?

The NFL took great pains not to set an expansion price and instead offered the new markets to existing owners. The NBA is in no hurry to test the waters either.

Everything changed when Ballmer decided he was willing to pay 2 billion for the Clippers simply because he wanted a team. Foley did the same thing in Vegas.

 

[Melrose Munch]

If they were strictly talking about media markets, they'd be trying hard to re-enter Atlanta. In terms of wealth and size, it is a doppelganger for Houston/Dallas. Then we get a bunch of people who deride Atlanta for being full of transplants and being a lousy sports town that only shows up for football. How is the dismissal any different from the typical disdain for the large Texas cities? How does this explain the success of soccer in Atlanta?

The NHL and its markets are at the mercy of their individual owners. Unlucky for Atlanta, they had 2 separate carpet bagging crooks.

I agree

I think the NHL would love to still be in Atlanta, they would certainly prefer it over Winnipeg. Unfortunately for the league, as we all know, there doesn't seem to be any viable way to make the NHL work in Atlanta at the moment, and the last group probably salted the earth for a generation (or two) anyway. Houston on the other hand has someone with an arena who might sorta-kinda be interested. If they could agree on a price it would probably be announced tomorrow.

The NHL really doesn't need Houston though (and I'm sure the dude in Houston doesn't need the NHL either). So if the NHL has decided expansion teams are now worth $650 million the league is probably not going to be handing out franchises for anything less than that regardless of market.

The NHL needs Houston way more then other way around. It's the number 6 media market, even bigger then Atlanta. Jacobs has said as much in public.

I wonder if the NHL might wind up taking the same approach the NFL did, using relocation to put 2 teams in LA and one in Vegas.

Makes sense.

 

[HisIceness]

I think the NHL would love to still be in Atlanta, they would certainly prefer it over Winnipeg. Unfortunately for the league, as we all know, there doesn't seem to be any viable way to make the NHL work in Atlanta at the moment, and the last group probably salted the earth for a generation (or two) anyway. Houston on the other hand has someone with an arena who might sorta-kinda be interested. If they could agree on a price it would probably be announced tomorrow.

The NHL really doesn't need Houston though (and I'm sure the dude in Houston doesn't need the NHL either). So if the NHL has decided expansion teams are now worth $650 million the league is probably not going to be handing out franchises for anything less than that regardless of market.

To your first point. Absolutely correct they would take Atlanta again over Winnipeg any day. For all the criticism Atlanta gets for being a fickle sports town, they've done really well with Major League Soccer. Proof of what you can do with stable ownership. Plus Atlanta has exploded in population since 2011, it always has but especially now. Lot of wealthy young people call it home. The Thrashers left right as the downtown and surrounding areas were getting hot.

To your second point. The NHL technically doesn't "need" Houston, but after Seattle is added, that should be the next US target. Everything about it makes sense.

 

[ForumNamePending]

The NHL needs Houston way more then other way around. It's the number 6 media market, even bigger then Atlanta. Jacobs has said as much in public.
Makes sense.

I'm sure under the right circumstances the NHL would like to be in a market with ~7 million people, and the dude in Houston wouldn't mind having 40+ additional dates at his arena, but at the end of the day, neither party needs the other.

After losing a top-10 market like Atlanta the NHL's revenue still kept on climbing upwards so I doubt the league is too stressed over not having a team in Houston. Adding Houston isn't going to transform the NHL's national profile in the States, so I don't think the league is going to undercut the value of their existing franchises and give Houston a discount just to get them on board.

To your first point. Absolutely correct they would take Atlanta again over Winnipeg any day. For all the criticism Atlanta gets for being a fickle sports town, they've done really well with Major League Soccer. Proof of what you can do with stable ownership. Plus Atlanta has exploded in population since 2011, it always has but especially now. Lot of wealthy young people call it home. The Thrashers left right as the downtown and surrounding areas were getting hot.

Ya... If the Thrashers had solid ownership that wasn't apparently actively trying to sabotage the franchise the NHL would have probably done fine in Atlanta. The Thrashers did set the attendance record for an expansion team so at one point the interest/potential was there.

 

[DowntownBooster]

To your first point. Absolutely correct they would take Atlanta again over Winnipeg any day. For all the criticism Atlanta gets for being a fickle sports town, they've done really well with Major League Soccer. Proof of what you can do with stable ownership. Plus Atlanta has exploded in population since 2011, it always has but especially now. Lot of wealthy young people call it home. The Thrashers left right as the downtown and surrounding areas were getting hot.

To your second point. The NHL technically doesn't "need" Houston, but after Seattle is added, that should be the next US target. Everything about it makes sense.

Rather than one or the other, I'd prefer to think the NHL would like to have both Winnipeg and Atlanta. The Jets have been a solid market during their first 7 years in Winnipeg. I hope the fans in Atlanta get another opportunity for a team with solid ownership that is committed to them and their fine city.

 

[XX]

Pretty sure my Coyotes will be in Houston next year because it's an upgrade for the league, solves a ticking debt bomb, and that market will never pay expansion fees yet the league wants it badly.

 

[KevFu]

I wonder if the NHL might wind up taking the same approach the NFL did, using relocation to put 2 teams in LA and one in Vegas.

The market your team is in matters far, far, far, far, far, like ridiculously far less in NFL than other sports.

- Only 8 home games a season, all on weekends. Makes your market bigger. Denver and New Orleans both have season ticket holders from 3+ states.

- No local TV deals. Every game is part of the national TV deal. Your market size (regional footprint population) is going to dictate your revenue from TV rights for the NHL/NBA/MLB. In the NFL, both Green Bay and Los Angeles are getting the same 32-way split, despite the LA market being 4 times bigger in population than the state of Wisconsin.

(that principle, BTW, is what makes Boston a hell of a lot richer than their market size in all sports. All of New England is their TV footprint, except for southern Connecticut).

I don't see the NHL going the relocation over expansion route, because expansion is growth and relocation is bad. The markets everyone would immediately suggest the NHL vacate are either big markets with lots of TV sets (PHX, MIA) and of course, the Calgary situation which would be very bad for the PR of the league if the Flames moved to Houston.

 

[gstommylee]

The market your team is in matters far, far, far, far, far, like ridiculously far less in NFL than other sports.

- Only 8 home games a season, all on weekends. Makes your market bigger. Denver and New Orleans both have season ticket holders from 3+ states.

- No local TV deals. Every game is part of the national TV deal. Your market size (regional footprint population) is going to dictate your revenue from TV rights for the NHL/NBA/MLB. In the NFL, both Green Bay and Los Angeles are getting the same 32-way split, despite the LA market being 4 times bigger in population than the state of Wisconsin.

(that principle, BTW, is what makes Boston a hell of a lot richer than their market size in all sports. All of New England is their TV footprint, except for southern Connecticut).

I don't see the NHL going the relocation over expansion route, because expansion is growth and relocation is bad. The markets everyone would immediately suggest the NHL vacate are either big markets with lots of TV sets (PHX, MIA) and of course, the Calgary situation which would be very bad for the PR of the league if the Flames moved to Houston.

So fixing an unhealhy franchise like the coyotes is a bad thing. And it always expansion first then fixing unhealthy teams? That's crazy.

 

[JMROWE]

I am going on record to say I hate Jeremy Jacobs he the only reason why Hamilton dose not have an NHL. team it is not Buffalo or Toronto because Hamilton is just far enough away from each city that it would not effect each teams bottom line but Jeremy Jacobs dose not see it that way he refers to insult Hamilton as no more than minor league city that can't bring in the big buck & would leach off the Buffalo & Toronto markets .

Business experts on both sides of the border have proved him wrong time & time again that 2nd Southern Ontario team (Hamilton) would be a huge success on & off the ice with out hurting Toronto & Buffalo all this is anti Canadian & continue to put teams or keep teams in markets that don't want them .

Hopefully in the near future Gary Bettmen retires & Jeremy Jacobs dies then we can finally see teams back in Quebec City & Hamilton .

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Pretty sure my Coyotes will be in Houston next year because it's an upgrade for the league, solves a ticking debt bomb, and that market will never pay expansion fees yet the league wants it badly.

When will the nhl get to the point where they pull the plug on the coyotes.they have been fighting to stay in the market for almost a decade people say they are moveing almost every year and it never happens

 

[gstommylee]

When will the nhl get to the point where they pull the plug on the coyotes.they have been fighting to stay in the market for almost a decade people say they are moveing almost every year and it never happens

The only reason why they haven't moved yet cause they don't need to with team #32 still not been officially granted to Seattle. It'll get interesting after Seattle has been officially becomes the 32nd team.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm sure under the right circumstances the NHL would like to be in a market with ~7 million people, and the dude in Houston wouldn't mind having 40+ additional dates at his arena, but at the end of the day, neither party needs the other.

After losing a top-10 market like Atlanta the NHL's revenue still kept on climbing upwards so I doubt the league is too stressed over not having a team in Houston. Adding Houston isn't going to transform the NHL's national profile in the States, so I don't think the league is going to undercut the value of their existing franchises and give Houston a discount just to get them on board.



Ya... If the Thrashers had solid ownership that wasn't apparently actively trying to sabotage the franchise the NHL would have probably done fine in Atlanta. The Thrashers did set the attendance record for an expansion team so at one point the interest/potential was there.

The league is gate driven and they're trying to get away from that. Houston helps with that. Jacobs has said it mulitple times now. If they wernt they would stop talking about it.

Pretty sure my Coyotes will be in Houston next year because it's an upgrade for the league, solves a ticking debt bomb, and that market will never pay expansion fees yet the league wants it badly.

I think Houston will be expansion and the Coyotes will be back in downtown Phoenix soon. I think the problem is what happens to jobing.com arena when they leave.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The market your team is in matters far, far, far, far, far, like ridiculously far less in NFL than other sports.

- Only 8 home games a season, all on weekends. Makes your market bigger. Denver and New Orleans both have season ticket holders from 3+ states.

- No local TV deals. Every game is part of the national TV deal. Your market size (regional footprint population) is going to dictate your revenue from TV rights for the NHL/NBA/MLB. In the NFL, both Green Bay and Los Angeles are getting the same 32-way split, despite the LA market being 4 times bigger in population than the state of Wisconsin.

(that principle, BTW, is what makes Boston a hell of a lot richer than their market size in all sports. All of New England is their TV footprint, except for southern Connecticut).

I don't see the NHL going the relocation over expansion route, because expansion is growth and relocation is bad. The markets everyone would immediately suggest the NHL vacate are either big markets with lots of TV sets (PHX, MIA) and of course, the Calgary situation which would be very bad for the PR of the league if the Flames moved to Houston.

How? If Calgary wont build a new arena then what should they do?

 

[gstommylee]

I am going on record to say I hate Jeremy Jacobs he the only reason why Hamilton dose not have an NHL. team it is not Buffalo or Toronto because Hamilton is just far enough away from each city that it would not effect each teams bottom line but Jeremy Jacobs dose not see it that way he refers to insult Hamilton as no more than minor league city that can't bring in the big buck & would leach off the Buffalo & Toronto markets .

Business experts on both sides of the border have proved him wrong time & time again that 2nd Southern Ontario team (Hamilton) would be a huge success on & off the ice with out hurting Toronto & Buffalo all this is anti Canadian & continue to put teams or keep teams in markets that don't want them .

Hopefully in the near future Gary Bettmen retires & Jeremy Jacobs dies then we can finally see teams back in Quebec City & Hamilton .

And Hamilton and Quebec will still not have teams, who ever takes over as Commissioner and becomes the next majority owner for Boston. You do need to realize Bettman can't just give Canada more teams and one owner can't do that either. It takes 3/4 of the entire league for that to happen and its not going to happen.

Can we stop with the whole NHL is anti canada Nonsense.

 

[MNNumbers]

Melrose.....

Without quoting your posts:
1- I agree that the NHL BOG would love to get away from being so gate driven. However, on a league wide scale, I do not see how Houston helps accomplish that goal. Of course, the dream would be a much larger US media contract. But I do not think that Houston really helps that RIGHT NOW. (It may in 15 years... But I continue to say that the future is going to be streaming, not broadcast, so where will that leave them???) There are only 2 kinds of revenue...
A- League wide shared which includes NBC and Rogers as well as merchandise and B- Local tickets, arena revenue and local TV.

2- Jacobs loves Houston because of the dream in #1 above, I think. Or, perhaps his company has the concessions rights at Toyota Center. But in either case, Houston does more than Quebec City for sure.

3- Remember, except for when Bettman makes his annual announcement of league revenue, no one cares how much money comes in from any particular other city. There is very little national shared revenue. Most revenue is local in one way or another. Therefore, how well Houston does doesn't affect Washington or Minnesota very much (except in the sense that if they do too well, the cap goes up).

4- How are the Coyotes going to end up back downtown? The Suns have all the power with the city of Phoenix, and the city itself doesn't really care about the Coyotes. There is no reason for the Phoenix City Council to tell Sarver "We won't build you a new arena unless you give the Coyotes 1/2 of the management rights." Absolutely no reason. And, if they did, Sarver might just move to either GRA himself, or to Seattle.

5- Why do you think that the Yotes or the NHL or Phoenix as a city cares one bit about GRA? (You called it jobing.com). The company with the management rights is AEG. Sure, they have connections to NHL, but the AEG footprint is FAR FAR bigger than the NHL. NHL is a small player in their overall game. And, if the Yotes left, AEG has the right to cancel their management contract. GRA is the last thing that NHL/Yotes are thinking about.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

And Hamilton and Quebec will still not have teams, who ever takes over as Commissioner and becomes the next majority owner for Boston. You do need to realize Bettman can't just give Canada more teams and one owner can't do that either. It takes 3/4 of the entire league for that to happen and its not going to happen.

Can we stop with the whole NHL is anti canada Nonsense.

Glendale and Raleigh and Sunrise are on Jacobs/Bettman they should have pushed more for downtown arenas in major city’s

 

[MNNumbers]

Glendale and Raleigh and Sunrise are on Jacobs/Bettman they should have pushed more for downtown arenas in major city’s the other 29 did not want another team then had to prop up if the value of the dollar in Canada tanked again so they rejected Hamilton.

Karmanos went directly to Raleigh. The arena there, PNC, is actually in a good location, and the lease that the team has makes the situation much more valuable than any downtown Raleigh location would ever be...

Coyotes play in Glendale because there was no room for them in the basketball arena in downtown Phoenix. And, the arena there was new - no chance for new one. There was nothing to push for with Phoenix. How they ended up in AZ in the first place and Glendale in the 2nd is too long a story to even summarize here, but don't blame Bettman.

Panthers: I am not as familiar with.

 

[ForumNamePending]

The league is gate driven and they're trying to get away from that. Houston helps with that. Jacobs has said it mulitple times now. If they wernt they would stop talking about it.

Will adding a team in Houston create some new fans? Sure... But it isn't going to transform the NHL's business model. Corporations and TV networks aren't going to be offering league HQ hundreds of millions of dollars in additional cash because there is now a few hundred thousand people in Houston following the NHL.

 

[gstommylee]

Will adding a team in Houston create some new fans? Sure... But it isn't going to transform the NHL's business model. Corporations and TV networks aren't going to be offering league HQ hundreds of millions of dollars in additional cash because there is now a few hundred thousand people in Houston following the NHL.

Combination of Seattle Vegas and Houston would.

Adding quebec and Hamilton won't bring anymore to the canadain tv dollar though imo. Its capped out up there.

 

[gstommylee]

Glendale and Raleigh and Sunrise are on Jacobs/Bettman they should have pushed more for downtown arenas in major city’s

Agreed with that. However, Glendale and Raleigh region have teams due to relocation.

 

[KevFu]

So fixing an unhealhy franchise like the coyotes is a bad thing. And it always expansion first then fixing unhealthy teams? That's crazy.

That’s not “fixing” an unhealthy franchise. It’s abandoning a market and trying somewhere else. That’s not good.

This site considers Bettman the devil for letting teams relocate in the 90s… but the cure for Arizona is relocation. That’s hypocritical to me.

To be a successful franchise, you need the holy trinity of “Arena, Owner and Lease.” Markets like Quebec, Winnipeg and Minnesota didn’t have the arena/lease situations in the 90s.

I’d much rather have Calgary muddling through a few years with a bad arena situation leading to dismal seasons where the finances aren’t great while they work on trying to find an arena solution (like the Islanders, or Coyotes or Oakland Athletics) than have them pack up and leave the city of Calgary without an NHL franchise indefinitely, because the people of Quebec can tell you how much that sucks.

And the exact same thing is true for Phoenix.


The BOH forum has talked about the Coyotes being on life support and about to flatline any minute now for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT YEARS. Exhibit ten million and one:

When will the nhl get to the point where they pull the plug on the coyotes.they have been fighting to stay in the market for almost a decade people say they are moveing almost every year and it never happens

How long does someone keep living that you stop holding a deathbed vigil?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Melrose.....

Without quoting your posts:
1- I agree that the NHL BOG would love to get away from being so gate driven. However, on a league wide scale, I do not see how Houston helps accomplish that goal. Of course, the dream would be a much larger US media contract. But I do not think that Houston really helps that RIGHT NOW. (It may in 15 years... But I continue to say that the future is going to be streaming, not broadcast, so where will that leave them???) There are only 2 kinds of revenue...
A- League wide shared which includes NBC and Rogers as well as merchandise and B- Local tickets, arena revenue and local TV.

2- Jacobs loves Houston because of the dream in #1 above, I think. Or, perhaps his company has the concessions rights at Toyota Center. But in either case, Houston does more than Quebec City for sure.

3- Remember, except for when Bettman makes his annual announcement of league revenue, no one cares how much money comes in from any particular other city. There is very little national shared revenue. Most revenue is local in one way or another. Therefore, how well Houston does doesn't affect Washington or Minnesota very much (except in the sense that if they do too well, the cap goes up).

4- How are the Coyotes going to end up back downtown? The Suns have all the power with the city of Phoenix, and the city itself doesn't really care about the Coyotes. There is no reason for the Phoenix City Council to tell Sarver "We won't build you a new arena unless you give the Coyotes 1/2 of the management rights." Absolutely no reason. And, if they did, Sarver might just move to either GRA himself, or to Seattle.

5- Why do you think that the Yotes or the NHL or Phoenix as a city cares one bit about GRA? (You called it jobing.com). The company with the management rights is AEG. Sure, they have connections to NHL, but the AEG footprint is FAR FAR bigger than the NHL. NHL is a small player in their overall game. And, if the Yotes left, AEG has the right to cancel their management contract. GRA is the last thing that NHL/Yotes are thinking about.

1- I don't think it's just Houston, but Houston, Vegas and Seattle will help with a large TV contract.
2- I don't think it's Houston vs Quebec, it's Houston and the future. Quebecor stopped the bid remember?
3-Fair point, but it does expose the game and help with the TV contract.
4-I think a deal will be reached to satisfy everyone. I dont think the league wants to lose the Phoenix market for whatever reason.
5-I think Glendale cares imo. Not the Yotes per se, but just what hapens after they leave the

Will adding a team in Houston create some new fans? Sure... But it isn't going to transform the NHL's business model. Corporations and TV networks aren't going to be offering league HQ hundreds of millions of dollars in additional cash because there is now a few hundred thousand people in Houston following the NHL.

Fair enough.

Combination of Seattle Vegas and Houston would.

Adding quebec and Hamilton won't bring anymore to the canadain tv dollar though imo. Its capped out up there.

It's not that at all. The NHL doesn't want those markets right now, why sugarcoat it?
GRA.

 

[gstommylee]

That’s not “fixing” an unhealthy franchise. It’s abandoning a market and trying somewhere else. That’s not good.

And doing nothing isn't isn't the answer either. They either get a new building in a better location in arizona that works for them or they relocate. One or the other.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

And Hamilton and Quebec will still not have teams, who ever takes over as Commissioner and becomes the next majority owner for Boston. You do need to realize Bettman can't just give Canada more teams and one owner can't do that either. It takes 3/4 of the entire league for that to happen and its not going to happen.

Can we stop with the whole NHL is anti canada Nonsense.

next majority owner of the Bruins, tommy, is already in place, essentially Charlie Jacobs runs the franchise when Jeremy tends to league business