Jeremy Jacobs sends a strong signal Houston is next but relocation is unlikely

[member 157595]

Hurricanes playing to an empty lower bowl last night, Panthers/Coyotes arenas will be empty after game one as well but sure let's add more teams.

The NHL doesn't care about fan attendance. They care about:

- tickets purchased (particularly luxury boxes)
- forcing taxpayers to pay for new arenas (and sometimes lease/management fees) for billionaires regardless of the status of the existing arena
- filling Daddy Jacobs' pockets with that sweet expansion cash
- chasing a NBA-level TV deal that will never come
- giving the illusion they actually care about player safety

 

[gstommylee]

same reason the Barclay center wanted the islanders out other events can make more money than the NHL

Barclays center wasn't designed for hockey in the first place. Rocket's owner went on record saying he wants a hockey team if its financially made sense.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Barclays center wasn't designed for hockey in the first place. Rocket's owner went on record saying he wants a hockey team if its financially made sense.

Atlanta took out hockey spaces and put in new ways for people to spend money. if that is successful for the team wouldn't The Rocket's owner try to Copy that if the AHL Spaces still exist in Houston A look behind the curtain as Philips Arena renovations continue

 

[gstommylee]

Atlanta took out hockey spaces and put in new ways for people to spend money. if that is successful for the team wouldn't The Rocket's owner try to Copy that if the AHL Spaces still exist in Houston A look behind the curtain as Philips Arena renovations continue

Why would he that wants a hockey team at a price that make sense want to make it impossible to house hockey. Its not going to happen.

 

[MNNumbers]

Why would he that wants a hockey team at a price that make sense want to make it impossible to house hockey. Its not going to happen.

Hey, Tommy.

Here we go again. I think it's wiser to say that we are getting some mixed signals:

1- Jacobs wants Houston. This is not new. He has said this for years.
2- Fertitta says he would like hockey at the right price.
3- Safe assumption is that his price is not the NHL's price.
4- Saying "no relocation" by Jacobs might well be just deflection. No one on the BOG can really admit the conditions in Arizona. And, there is heat in Calgary.

How does all of that fit together? Well, we don't know. Just have to wait and see.

 

[cutchemist42]

Did Jacobs won the concessions agreement for Houston arena?

Seriously speaking Houston could definitely be a fit. I just find it hard to imagine that the League would expand to 34 because at some point the connections between the teams would become quite thin (you either see some teams in a building once every two years, splitting practically the League into separate East and West conferences or there is too little games left for established rivalries which carry more value for the owners).

I've honestly come to the point where I enjoy following smaller leagues. Feel like I can follow the ongoings a lot more in depth

 

[StreetHawk]

the WHA Aeros Folded a year before the league merged with the NHL teams like the Bruins and Rangers would have most likely voted for Houston over Hartford

Nhl didn’t have control of that situation. They could have awarded a team to one of the 3 bids from Houston, but the NhL didn’t have the foresight into how important arena deals were in terms of controlling arena revenues. Once the rockets had control, the owner decided he didn’t need or want the NHL.

That is on the NHL. In Dallas the Mavs and Stars have different owners but they share the AAC. Houston would likely have been a similar setup had the NHl expanded to Houston in the late 90’s.

 

[gstommylee]

Nhl didn’t have control of that situation. They could have awarded a team to one of the 3 bids from Houston, but the NhL didn’t have the foresight into how important arena deals were in terms of controlling arena revenues. Once the rockets had control, the owner decided he didn’t need or want the NHL.

That is on the NHL. In Dallas the Mavs and Stars have different owners but they share the AAC. Houston would likely have been a similar setup had the NHl expanded to Houston in the late 90’s.

How is that on the NHL? When Les Alexander didn't want anyone else but him being involved in the hockey team in his arena. Thankfully Les Alexander is no longer involved.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

How is that on the NHL? When Les Alexander didn't want anyone else but him being involved in the hockey team in his arena. Thankfully Les Alexander is no longer involved.

he was not involved with the AHL/IHL it was Chuck Watson and the Wild

 

[gstommylee]

he was not involved with the AHL/IHL it was Chuck Watson and the Wild

That is a separate issue. Alexander is why NHL isn't in houston today.

 

[TheLegend]

Prediction: Houston will not pay 650 million for an NHL team, just imo. The NHL is in a weak position here. They need Houston more then Houston needs them.

They’ll pay more if they wait too long.

League is not about to undercut OVG’s application nor devalue the franchises by giving some a discount.

 

[MNNumbers]

They’ll pay more if they wait too long.

League is not about to undercut OVG’s application nor devalue the franchises by giving some a discount.

As often as Legend and I have fought over details of many things through the years.....
I have to completely agree with him here. Jacobs' comments seem to me to be simply re-affirming his own ideas, NOT giving any hint of what will happen in the future.

Again, the Houston situation, I think, is at an impasse:
NHL would like to go there, for US national media contracts' sake.
NHL, however, won't go there if the price is less than 650M for an expansion team, or less than 500M for a relocation.
Currently, it seems completely uncertain that Fertitta wants to pay that much, and the longer he delays, the less likely he is to pay.
However, there are still 2 clubs who would want to use Houston as leverage: Calgary and Arizona.
Thus, the league is in the strange position of needing the presence of Houston, and yet knowing that Fertitta is unlikely to be desperate to join their club.

Fascinating times....

 

[SkalbaniasGhost]

The argument against further expansion will be proven wrong by 2021(Labor Deal).
Donald Fehr won't get everything the NHLPA wants but he can deliver a promise for more jobs(46-92) over
the course of the agreement.That shiny office they reside in Toronto does not pay for itself but
through union dues/rights fees.The NHLPA is like any business entity in that it has to grow.
More Jobs - More Money.
36 teams is very much a possibility.

Atlanta will be in the mix.Not at the State Farm Arena.
The potential owner would be Liberty Media(They own SiriusXM radio, F1 racing, Atlanta Braves)
They will build an arena complex like they did for the Braves in suburban Atlanta.
Home - Battery Atlanta
There is land available in the immediate area.

 

[KevFu]

Prediction: Houston will not pay 650 million for an NHL team, just imo. The NHL is in a weak position here. They need Houston more then Houston needs them.

I think Houston will pay the same price as Quebec (who had a $500 million expansion bid "deferred") and the NHL will totally downplay/ignore the discussion of expansion fees.

17/17 seems weird, but 4 vs conference (64), 1 vs other conference (17), your main rival a 5th time = 82 games.

 

[gstommylee]

I think Houston will pay the same price as Quebec (who had a $500 million expansion bid "deferred") and the NHL will totally downplay/ignore the discussion of expansion fees.

17/17 seems weird, but 4 vs conference (64), 1 vs other conference (17), your main rival a 5th time = 82 games.

No way NHL is going to be suddenly asking less when they gotten 650m from Seattle. And it wasn't never confirmed that quebec fee would still be 500m. No way they are going to be asking less for quebec than what Seattle paid.

 

[gstommylee]

The argument against further expansion will be proven wrong by 2021(Labor Deal).
Donald Fehr won't get everything the NHLPA wants but he can deliver a promise for more jobs(46-92) over
the course of the agreement.That shiny office they reside in Toronto does not pay for itself but
through union dues/rights fees.The NHLPA is like any business entity in that it has to grow.
More Jobs - More Money.
36 teams is very much a possibility.

Atlanta will be in the mix.Not at the State Farm Arena.
The potential owner would be Liberty Media(They own SiriusXM radio, F1 racing, Atlanta Braves)
They will build an arena complex like they did for the Braves in suburban Atlanta.
Home - Battery Atlanta
There is land available in the immediate area.

Not going to happen.

 

[powerstuck]

Anyway Jacob's saying ''no relocation'' isn't wrong as it. But it also says the league may not be ready for another Atlanta situation (team having no other option but to leave current city/arena on a short notice.

 

[KevFu]

No way NHL is going to be suddenly asking less when they gotten 650m from Seattle. And it wasn't never confirmed that quebec fee would still be 500m. No way they are going to be asking less for quebec than what Seattle paid.

I think the NHL craves Houston (and getting QC back into the league) more than they crave the difference between $650 million and $500 million plus interest and they announce/publish an expansion fee higher than actual money accepted via phantom dollars -- like how when a team in debt is sold, they say "The team sold for $200 million" by counting $110 cash and $90 million debt.

 

[KevFu]

36 teams is very much a possibility.

I think Seattle (obviously), Houston and Quebec are in the near-future (Like, by 2025).

After that, I think the 18th team in the West is a market/ownership group undiscovered by the NHL, while the 18th team in the East will be owned by Bell or Rogers in Southern Ontario following an MLSE ownership divorce.

Just my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

 

[gstommylee]

I think the NHL craves Houston (and getting QC back into the league) more than they crave the difference between $650 million and $500 million plus interest and they announce/publish an expansion fee higher than actual money accepted via phantom dollars -- like how when a team in debt is sold, they say "The team sold for $200 million" by counting $110 cash and $90 million debt.

so what happens when the league has to move a team and there is no options for said team?

 

[MikeCubs]

The argument against further expansion will be proven wrong by 2021(Labor Deal).
Donald Fehr won't get everything the NHLPA wants but he can deliver a promise for more jobs(46-92) over
the course of the agreement.That shiny office they reside in Toronto does not pay for itself but
through union dues/rights fees.The NHLPA is like any business entity in that it has to grow.
More Jobs - More Money.
36 teams is very much a possibility.

Atlanta will be in the mix.Not at the State Farm Arena.
The potential owner would be Liberty Media(They own SiriusXM radio, F1 racing, Atlanta Braves)
They will build an arena complex like they did for the Braves in suburban Atlanta.
Home - Battery Atlanta
There is land available in the immediate area.

The problem is there is no public money for sports anymore in Cobb county. Tim Lee the guy who did the Braves deal behind closed doors was voted out. His opponent Mike Boyce ran on an anti-stadium campaign. Cobb county faces a $30M to $55M budget shortfall.

Braves stadium hardly a home run for Cobb taxpayers

There is nothing left after the Braves got $400M in public cash.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

so what happens when the league has to move a team and there is no options for said team?

same as if there were some sort of natural or manmade disaster, like a flood, or a hurricane, or what-have-you....it's not the problem some here make it out to be.

 

[powerstuck]

so what happens when the league has to move a team and there is no options for said team?

In words of Gary Bruce Bettman : ''The league is currently not looking to relocate any of it franchises. All our assets are stable and viable and our league is constantly growing.''

In other words...how could NHL ever be in need to relocate a team.

 

[KevFu]

so what happens when the league has to move a team and there is no options for said team?

There's not really a shortage though. The Penguins and Islanders both used Kansas City as a threat of relocation and Kansas City isn't even high on everyone's list of empty markets. They'd be like sixth on everyone's list.

And the NHL really doesn't WANT anyone to move. What they want is cities to cave when owners need new arenas. You don't need somewhere to GO TO, you need somewhere to THREATEN to go to.

 

[TheLegend]

As often as Legend and I have fought over details of many things through the years.....
I have to completely agree with him here. Jacobs' comments seem to me to be simply re-affirming his own ideas, NOT giving any hint of what will happen in the future.

Again, the Houston situation, I think, is at an impasse:
NHL would like to go there, for US national media contracts' sake.
NHL, however, won't go there if the price is less than 650M for an expansion team, or less than 500M for a relocation.
Currently, it seems completely uncertain that Fertitta wants to pay that much, and the longer he delays, the less likely he is to pay.
However, there are still 2 clubs who would want to use Houston as leverage: Calgary and Arizona.
Thus, the league is in the strange position of needing the presence of Houston, and yet knowing that Fertitta is unlikely to be desperate to join their club.

Fascinating times....

It is fascinating given all the silence we got after Fertitta made his comment about teams struggling below the Mason-Dixon. Vegas pretty much has destroyed that narrative. And Seattle's two year delay cost them an extra $150 million to buy in.

If I had to speculate..... this was the league's response to Fertitta looking for a "southern market discount" expansion franchise.

Coyotes recently took on two more long term deals with corporate sponsors. Social media chatter has them talking with the Salt River community within the last six months. They don't sound like a team looking to go anywhere before Seattle launches. That can all change of course, but for the moment the league is more than willing to wait it out on Houston.