Jeremy Jacobs sends a strong signal Houston is next but relocation is unlikely

[gstommylee]

next majority owner of the Bruins, tommy, is already in place, essentially Charlie Jacobs runs the franchise when Jeremy tends to league business

Point still stands. Quebec and Hamilton will still not be getting teams once Charlie fully takes over.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Point still stands. Quebec and Hamilton will still not be getting teams once Charlie fully takes over.

Jeremy will hand the head of the board of governors job to someone with the same views as Jacobs/Bettman when he steps down the only way to change is to have some New Money Owners purpose new leaders like what some MLB Owners tried and failed to do Tom Werner Emerges to Create Race for Commissioner

 

[gstommylee]

Jeremy will hand the head of the board of governors job to someone with the same views as Jacobs/Bettman when he steps down the only way to change is to have some New Money Owners purpose new leaders like what some MLB Owners tried and failed to do Tom Werner Emerges to Create Race for Commissioner

I do not see the NHL changing status quo. I just don't see there being enough of a change out there. Note you just need more than 1/4 of the teams to remain a no for quebec and Hamilton.

Plus price for expansion will continue to go up. I don't see either markets paying that kind of $$$ even if the league wants to expand beyond 32.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I do not see the NHL changing status quo. I just don't see there being enough of a change out there. Note you just need more than 1/4 of the teams to remain a no for quebec and Hamilton.

Plus price for expansion will continue to go up. I don't see either markets paying that kind of $$$ even if the league wants to expand beyond 32.

its understandable The Flames And Senators are already In Older Arenas/Bad Locations if the flames went to Houston and The Yotes got a Downtown Phoenix arena it Would Probably Increase the value of a lot of Franchises including the Oilers who would have the market to themselves

 

[gstommylee]

its understandable The Flames And Senators are already In Older Arenas/Bad Locations if the flames went to Houston and The Yotes got a Downtown arena it Would Probably Increase the value of a lot of Franchises including the Oilers who would have the market to themselves

Which one is more likely to get a new arena done flames or Coyotes? I see Flames eventually getting one. Coyotes issue is basically the Phoenix Suns. The suns don't want to share an arena with the hockey team thus the Coyotes will basically have to build one themselves and i just don't think they have the $$$ in order to do that nor there being political will for public dollars to it. Calgary has a bid for the winter games and they need a new arena in order have any chance at getting it.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I wonder if the NHL might wind up taking the same approach the NFL did, using relocation to put 2 teams in LA and one in Vegas.

is there a third team besides the Coyotes and the Flames that might relocated?

 

[gstommylee]

is there a third team besides the Coyotes and the Flames that might relocated?

In the west? No.

 

[Fenway]

I am going on record to say I hate Jeremy Jacobs he the only reason why Hamilton dose not have an NHL. team it is not Buffalo or Toronto because Hamilton is just far enough away from each city that it would not effect each teams bottom line but Jeremy Jacobs dose not see it that way he refers to insult Hamilton as no more than minor league city that can't bring in the big buck & would leach off the Buffalo & Toronto markets .

Business experts on both sides of the border have proved him wrong time & time again that 2nd Southern Ontario team (Hamilton) would be a huge success on & off the ice with out hurting Toronto & Buffalo all this is anti Canadian & continue to put teams or keep teams in markets that don't want them .

Hopefully in the near future Gary Bettmen retires & Jeremy Jacobs dies then we can finally see teams back in Quebec City & Hamilton .

In that fateful BOG meeting in December 1990, it is clear that Jacobs was concerned about the impact of a Hamilton franchise in Buffalo. The Leafs were silent at that meeting as they were in turmoil after Ballard's death and nobody was in charge,

What we DO know is Ron Joyce (Tim Hortons) balked at paying $50M US upfront without knowing what indemnification fees would come later. That turned out to be a miscalculation on his part. Karmanos also balked at paying the $50M for St. Petersburg.

Bruce Firestone and Phil Esposito both said they would pay the $50 million and that in the end was all the BoG wanted to hear.

@JMROWE - We frown on posters wishing bad things to others but I understand your frustration. Ron Joyce tried to bluff the BoG and it backfired.

I was living in Florida when this all came down and wound up being quoted in the Boston Globe

BUT - Jacobs will not necessarily have the same loyalty to Terry and Kim Pegula like he did for the Knox family.

The Sabres impact zone in Ontario is from the Niagara River to the Welland Canal and the Sabres are allowed to televise games in that footprint. The Red Wings have never bothered to have TV on the Ontario side of the Detroit River.

I doubt anyone reading this post would disagree that a second team in the Golden Horseshoe of Ontario would be a success and the damage to the Maple Leafs brand would be minimal.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

In the west? No.

Ottawa ,Carolina in the East ?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Ottawa ,Carolina in the East ?

Carolina is settled

 

[gstommylee]

Carolina is settled

For now. Let see in 6 more years once the lease expires and the 6 years left of no relocation.

 

[HisIceness]

Rather than one or the other, I'd prefer to think the NHL would like to have both Winnipeg and Atlanta. The Jets have been a solid market during their first 7 years in Winnipeg. I hope the fans in Atlanta get another opportunity for a team with solid ownership that is committed to them and their fine city.

Fair points.

 

[MNNumbers]

1- I don't think it's just Houston, but Houston, Vegas and Seattle will help with a large TV contract.
2- I don't think it's Houston vs Quebec, it's Houston and the future. Quebecor stopped the bid remember?
3-Fair point, but it does expose the game and help with the TV contract.
4-I think a deal will be reached to satisfy everyone. I dont think the league wants to lose the Phoenix market for whatever reason.
5-I think Glendale cares imo. Not the Yotes per se, but just what hapens after they leave the

snip....

1-A 2-part answer... The question isn't "Seattle, Vegas and Houston". Vegas and Seattle are in. The question is Houston. Trying to tie all 3 together is foolish. There is no one anywhere saying "We'll give you 50M more a year if you have Seattle, Vegas and Houston, but ZERO more if you only have Seattle and Vegas." As to what all 3 of them do for the TV.... Well, considering that NBC rarely shows games outside of the NE Corridor, I don't think it does much during the regular season. However, somewhere here someone said that the value of the TV contract is in the playoffs. If that is true, Houston and Seattle especially might tune in more eyeballs to the playoffs if they have a team in the league.

2-The matter was "why is Jacobs so excited about Houston?" My answer used Quebec as a prop only. I actually think Jacobs is selfish, single-minded, has surrounded himself with yes-men, and isn't seeing the future clearly. But, even if all of that is true, Houston is for sure the only place left which might do anything for anyone in the BOG (not talking about the local owners here).

3-We're back to the question of "How much does Houston itself increase viewership and thus how much NBC or someone will pay for broadcast rights?" The answer will always be, "A pittance compared to NBA." It doesn't matter which cities have teams. Think about it this way: Currently, you would say that NY, Chicago and LA, with Philadelphia and Detroit and Washington thrown in, are worth 200M a year. Now you are trying to convince me that adding Houston all of a sudden doubles the value of the contract? Or, even adds 10%? I really don't think that makes sense, but I'm not making the decisions for the broadcasters, either.

4-Your 'solution which makes everyone happy' doesn't exist except in fantasy land, in my opinion. Sarver and the Suns get all the ancillary money right now. They have the rights to that for another 5 years. Why should they play nice with the Yotes? They won't. Yotes have no leverage, since few in Phoenix actually care about them. The solution which most pleases most of Phoenix would be to keep the Suns. There is simply not enough winter sports money in that town to support 2 teams. And the Yotes are surviving right now precisely because of expansion fees. Sure, the league doesn't want to lose the market. But, at what price? That, of course, has been the question for about 3 years now.

5-Sure, Glendale cares. But, NBA, NHL and city of Phoenix sure don't. And, Glendale isn't paying the Yotes to play there anymore. What happens to GRA doesn't factor into the Yotes or the NHL's thinking at all.

 

[Melrose Munch]

1-A 2-part answer... The question isn't "Seattle, Vegas and Houston". Vegas and Seattle are in. The question is Houston. Trying to tie all 3 together is foolish. There is no one anywhere saying "We'll give you 50M more a year if you have Seattle, Vegas and Houston, but ZERO more if you only have Seattle and Vegas." As to what all 3 of them do for the TV.... Well, considering that NBC rarely shows games outside of the NE Corridor, I don't think it does much during the regular season. However, somewhere here someone said that the value of the TV contract is in the playoffs. If that is true, Houston and Seattle especially might tune in more eyeballs to the playoffs if they have a team in the league.

2-The matter was "why is Jacobs so excited about Houston?" My answer used Quebec as a prop only. I actually think Jacobs is selfish, single-minded, has surrounded himself with yes-men, and isn't seeing the future clearly. But, even if all of that is true, Houston is for sure the only place left which might do anything for anyone in the BOG (not talking about the local owners here).

3-We're back to the question of "How much does Houston itself increase viewership and thus how much NBC or someone will pay for broadcast rights?" The answer will always be, "A pittance compared to NBA." It doesn't matter which cities have teams. Think about it this way: Currently, you would say that NY, Chicago and LA, with Philadelphia and Detroit and Washington thrown in, are worth 200M a year. Now you are trying to convince me that adding Houston all of a sudden doubles the value of the contract? Or, even adds 10%? I really don't think that makes sense, but I'm not making the decisions for the broadcasters, either.

4-Your 'solution which makes everyone happy' doesn't exist except in fantasy land, in my opinion. Sarver and the Suns get all the ancillary money right now. They have the rights to that for another 5 years. Why should they play nice with the Yotes? They won't. Yotes have no leverage, since few in Phoenix actually care about them. The solution which most pleases most of Phoenix would be to keep the Suns. There is simply not enough winter sports money in that town to support 2 teams. And the Yotes are surviving right now precisely because of expansion fees. Sure, the league doesn't want to lose the market. But, at what price? That, of course, has been the question for about 3 years now.

5-Sure, Glendale cares. But, NBA, NHL and city of Phoenix sure don't. And, Glendale isn't paying the Yotes to play there anymore. What happens to GRA doesn't factor into the Yotes or the NHL's thinking at all.

1- Fair enough, but that is the increasingly the problem right? Only showing Bos, Nyr, Phi, Wsh, Cho, Pit, and Buffalo.
2- Fair points.
3- I don't know, I think if hockey ever learns to market itself, anything can happen.
4- Very true, but it might be a public black eye if they move after all the subsidy.
5- Fair enough.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Bruce Firestone and Phil Esposito both said they would pay the $50 million and that in the end was all the BoG wanted to hear.

let's not forget that Esposito flat out lied to the BoG about franchise financing and the arena.

 

[TheLegend]

For now. Let see in 6 more years once the lease expires and the 6 years left of no relocation.

Well that should guarantee another six years worth of relo threads on Carolina then.

 

[Svechhammer]

For now. Let see in 6 more years once the lease expires and the 6 years left of no relocation.

You all are really starting to sound like this.....

 

[TheLegend]

5-Sure, Glendale cares. But, NBA, NHL and city of Phoenix sure don't. And, Glendale isn't paying the Yotes to play there anymore. What happens to GRA doesn't factor into the Yotes or the NHL's thinking at all.

Not directly. But indirectly they are since the arena was built for the specific purpose of housing them, and their willingness to continue spending funds on upgrades that are necessary to keep them there.

As for the Yotes not caring about GRA? They do more than you would think. Otherwise, they wouldn't have invested what little capital the consensus mind of HF claims they have with Glendale to upgrade a scoreboard.

 

[MNNumbers]

This has kind of turned into a catch all thread. So, I would say the following about relocations:

East:
Carolina - There is no reason to think Dundon would purchase with intent to relocate 7 years later. And, the whole league financial structure will look much different then - new media contract, new CBA, etc. It makes little sense to speculate on his losses. And, the reason Carolina has always been included is attendance. This year they are good, so perhaps that changes, and then there is NO reason to even think about it... In Sum....A very long shot to relocate..

Florida - Lease forbids breakage for another 4 years after this one. At that point, the cost to break it would be 40M. That's high, but might be doable depending on the new CBA and whether local revenues change much. I say Florida is a middling chance at a relo....

Islanders - Only if their Belmont arena falls through..

Landing Spot: Quebec

No one else.

West:
Arizona - This has discussed much. No one knows really. Our best guesses on finances suggest that there is more debt involved here than there was money put in to purchase the team. They want a new arena, but there is no public evidence of anything happening. Expansion fees are keeping them afloat right now. And, we don't know if the BOG is actually funding the thing. We just don't know. I think....and it's just an opinion....that without a new arena there is a good chance this franchise doesn't last 5 more years.

Calgary - Only because city council doesn't want to pay for a new arena. There have been quiet threats of Houston, but I think it's just negotiations. Very small chance.

Landing Spot - Houston, but we don't know how much Fertitta actually wants to pay.

That sums up my thoughts, along with the idea that what Jacobs said recently is nothing new at all.

 

[MNNumbers]

Not directly. But indirectly they are since the arena was built for the specific purpose of housing them, and their willingness to continue spending funds on upgrades that are necessary to keep them there.

As for the Yotes not caring about GRA? They do more than you would think. Otherwise, they wouldn't have invested what little capital the consensus mind of HF claims they have with Glendale to upgrade a scoreboard.

Yotes and GRA. They care because they have no place else to play. That's all. If there were a new arena available in Scottsdale with a subsidy, they'd be gone in a heartbeat. Leaving Glendale in any way would cause no tears. That's my point.

 

[Fenway]

let's not forget that Esposito flat out lied to the BoG about franchise financing and the arena.

Firestone was not completely truthful either but they both knew all they had to tell the BoG that they would pay.

 

[Fenway]

This has kind of turned into a catch all thread. So, I would say the following about relocations:

East:
Carolina - There is no reason to think Dundon would purchase with intent to relocate 7 years later. And, the whole league financial structure will look much different then - new media contract, new CBA, etc. It makes little sense to speculate on his losses. And, the reason Carolina has always been included is attendance. This year they are good, so perhaps that changes, and then there is NO reason to even think about it... In Sum....A very long shot to relocate..

Florida - Lease forbids breakage for another 4 years after this one. At that point, the cost to break it would be 40M. That's high, but might be doable depending on the new CBA and whether local revenues change much. I say Florida is a middling chance at a relo....

Islanders - Only if their Belmont arena falls through..

Landing Spot: Quebec

No one else.

West:
Arizona - This has discussed much. No one knows really. Our best guesses on finances suggest that there is more debt involved here than there was money put in to purchase the team. They want a new arena, but there is no public evidence of anything happening. Expansion fees are keeping them afloat right now. And, we don't know if the BOG is actually funding the thing. We just don't know. I think....and it's just an opinion....that without a new arena there is a good chance this franchise doesn't last 5 more years.

Calgary - Only because city council doesn't want to pay for a new arena. There have been quiet threats of Houston, but I think it's just negotiations. Very small chance.

Landing Spot - Houston, but we don't know how much Fertitta actually wants to pay.

That sums up my thoughts, along with the idea that what Jacobs said recently is nothing new at all.

Ottawa has to be on the possible relocation list and Quebec being the most likely place.

 

[TheLegend]

Yotes and GRA. They care because they have no place else to play. That's all. If there were a new arena available in Scottsdale with a subsidy, they'd be gone in a heartbeat. Leaving Glendale in any way would cause no tears. That's my point.

Helping the city in replacing a scoreboard wasn't a requirement to them staying. That's a sunk cost they will be walking away from if they leave.

For a franchise that everyone keeps droning on about having no money (cash calls, etc etc......), you have to start asking yourself when does one stop buying into narratives and begin to really look at what's going on??

That's my point.

 

[MNNumbers]

Helping the city in replacing a scoreboard wasn't a requirement to them staying. That's a sunk cost they will be walking away from if they leave.

For a franchise that everyone keeps droning on about having no money (cash calls, etc etc......), you have to start asking yourself when does one stop buying into narratives and begin to really look at what's going on??

That's my point.

And that's the reason that I'm starting to think that the league itself is actually paying the freight there,, regardless of Barroway, and, because they want to stay in the Phoenix market, they are willing to pay the losses.

I'm less sure of a relocation in there case now than I thought I was 3 years ago, because of how nothing has transpired since.

 

[MNNumbers]

Ottawa has to be on the possible relocation list and Quebec being the most likely place.

Not my list. Melnyk can't move them himself, and if he sells, there is another group who want to take over the project at LeBreton.