Jeremy Colliton thread

[RememberTheRoar]

oh look people complaining about toews again

And that's not justified, why? Toews is still part of this team, Q is not.

 

[plasmonresonance]

Thought Keith kind of eluded to their different philosophies in an interview. Suggesting Q allowed them to play more instinctual and with freedom. JC on the other hand, is more detailed, more situationally structured. So it's entirely possible that JC being slightly more structured than Q has caused some small friction, even a year later.

 

[ChiHawk21]

And that's not justified, why? Toews is still part of this team, Q is not.

repetitive. nobody is saying toews is playing good. why repeat it every ten seconds?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

repetitive arguments. nobody is saying toews is playing good. why repeat it every ten seconds?

Because it’s as close to a singular reason this team sucks as you can find in a team sport. It’s a very big deal. What Q did two years ago isn’t.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Toews is a 13 year vet with 128 playoff games, turning 32 this season. He probably should have been better a few seasons ago, but at this point, it is not at all out of the ordinary for him to have declined.

The guy gave up his body to win as much as anyone else. Not every player is going have a slow burn in their 30’s.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Because it’s as close to a singular reason this team sucks as you can find in a team sport. It’s a very big deal. What Q did two years ago isn’t.

the coaching problem may be as big of a problem as toews playing crappy.

toews being the singlular reason this team sucks and comparing to every team sport is just NONSENSE. they are like setting records for shots against lol.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

the coaching problem may be as big of a problem as toews playing crappy.

toews being the singlular reason this team sucks and comparing to every team sport is just NONSENSE. they are like setting records for shots against lol.

I'm not arguing for Colliton, I'm saying whining about Q isn't the issue here.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Because it’s as close to a singular reason this team sucks as you can find in a team sport. It’s a very big deal. What Q did two years ago isn’t.

No it's not. Teams go without their top C even playing and do fine. (Crosby and the Pens for example) The team should still be able to play competitive hockey without their top player, but the Hawks can't even do it with Toews acting as a #3C) Blaming Toews for this teams issues is just looking for a scapegoat, and dumb.

 

[ChiHawks10]

the coaching problem may be as big of a problem as toews playing crappy.

toews being the singlular reason this team sucks and comparing to every team sport is just NONSENSE. they are like setting records for shots against lol.

Toews' defensive stats haven't been this bad since his rookie year. They're 5-6 percentage points below his career average. This is a very big reason why the team defense sucks. Toews can't match up against other team's top lines... The effects of that trickle down through the rest of the lineup. You really can't see that as being a major problem?

If Toews can't match up against top lines, someone else's line has to do it. Say... Kampf's. That creates terrible match up mismatches, because his line can't do it, either. Him sucking ass has an effect on the entire rest of the roster and team defense... If his line is getting steamrolled by the opposing top line, you can never get any quality matchups for your other lines. It puts you at a constant disadvantage.

 

[x Tame Impala]

oh look people complaining about toews again

On pace for 48 points and 16 goals. Captain of the team, 1C, one of the highest cap hits in the league. Has looked good at best this season while spending most of it playing disinterested/inneffective hockey. Why wouldn't we complain about Toews?

 

[x Tame Impala]

No it's not. Teams go without their top C even playing and do fine. (Crosby and the Pens for example) The team should still be able to play competitive hockey without their top player, but the Hawks can't even do it with Toews acting as a #3C) Blaming Toews for this teams issues is just looking for a scapegoat, and dumb.

Malkin, Evgeni. #71

Also, the Hawks have always and will always live and die with the play of their 1C and 1D.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Malkin, Evgeni. #71

Also, the Hawks have always and will always live and die with the play of their 1C and 1D.

Yep.

 

[Hawkaholic]

On pace for 48 points and 16 goals. Captain of the team, 1C, one of the highest cap hits in the league. Has looked good at best this season while spending most of it playing disinterested/inneffective hockey. Why wouldn't we complain about Toews?

Yes, you can complain about Toews, I don't have much of an issue with that. It's the blaming him for this teams problems that is the problem. How does the team look when Toews is on the bench and not playing? Like garbage.

Also, this is a real question, is there any other #1Cs that are playing very well, whose best linemate is of the ilk of Brandon Saad, and then straddled with a 3rd line winger on the other side? I can't think of many.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Yes, you can complain about Toews, I don't have much of an issue with that. It's the blaming him for this teams problems that is the problem. How does the team look when Toews is on the bench and not playing? Like garbage.

Also, this is a real question, is there any other #1Cs that are playing very well, whose best linemate is of the ilk of Brandon Saad, and then straddled with a 3rd line winger on the other side? I can't think of many.

His cap hit makes the second part of your post nearly irrelevant. But for discussion's sake, Toews has not been producing with any and all linemates this year. Seems like a very week excuse to me, like something i'd find on the Maple Leafs board

 

[Hawkaholic]

Malkin, Evgeni. #71

Also, the Hawks have always and will always live and die with the play of their 1C and 1D.

That the GMs problem for not having the depth to make up for a decline in play of their top guys, or injuries, no? What about Bergeron being out? Bruins went on a 8 game winning streak without him. What about the teams that are in the playoffs that don't even have a legit top 1C? (Arizona) etc. Blaming it on Toews is dumb.

 

[Hawkaholic]

His cap hit makes the second part of your post nearly irrelevant. But for discussion's sake, Toews has not been producing with any and all linemates this year. Seems like a very week excuse to me, like something i'd find on the Maple Leafs board

He hasn't had more than a game or two with Kane on his wing permanently. Look at other Cs around the league and find one making big money that isn't playing with more skilled players than Toews.

 

[x Tame Impala]

He hasn't had more than a game or two with Kane on his wing permanently. Look at other Cs around the league and find one making big money that isn't playing with more skilled players than Toews.

Saad isn’t a legitimate 1st line support player? Again, Toews’ cap hit is high enough to where he simply needs to be producing regardless. That’s what goes along with having one of the highest AAV’s in the league

 

[Hawkaholic]

Saad isn’t a legitimate 1st line support player? Again, Toews’ cap hit is high enough to where he simply needs to be producing regardless. That’s what goes along with having one of the highest AAV’s in the league

Not compared to what most other #1Cs are playing with on a nightly basis.
Monahan - Gaudreau
Aho - Teravainen
Begeron - Marchand/Pastrnak
MacKinnon - Landeskog/Raantanen
McDavid - Draisatil
Barkov - Huberdeau
OReilly - Perron
Matthews - Nylander
Tavares - Marner
Backstrom - Ovechkin
Scheifele - Connor/Laine
etc

Yes, he should produce on his own based off of his AAV, but when has he ever done that? Why do we expect it now? Because Bowman gave him 10.5mil? Sounds like the GM gave him too much money, surprise.

 

[ChiHawk21]

On pace for 48 points and 16 goals. Captain of the team, 1C, one of the highest cap hits in the league. Has looked good at best this season while spending most of it playing disinterested/inneffective hockey. Why wouldn't we complain about Toews?

EVERYONE IS IN AGREEMENT

 

[BK]

EVERYONE IS IN AGREEMENT

Your caps lock is on.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Your caps lock is on.

Guess what toews isnt playing well.

 

[ColdSteel2]

He hasn't had more than a game or two with Kane on his wing permanently. Look at other Cs around the league and find one making big money that isn't playing with more skilled players than Toews.

Exactly. We know Toews can still produce offensively with talent on his wings. There just isn’t enough to go around right now so the spotlight goes to him. Put a guy like TT or even Zuccarello with him and he’d be producing more.

 

[BK]

Guess what toews isnt playing well.

Everyone is agreement.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

Toews is a 13 year vet with 128 playoff games, turning 32 this season. He probably should have been better a few seasons ago, but at this point, it is not at all out of the ordinary for him to have declined.

The guy gave up his body to win as much as anyone else. Not every player is going have a slow burn in their 30’s.

He's been bad 3 of the last 4 seasons.

 

[ColdSteel2]

He's been bad 3 of the last 4 seasons.

No doubt. I just think he has some utility as an offensive minded 2C if he has talent around him. The defensive game seems long gone and he is nowhere even close to the player he once was.