Confirmed with Link: Jeff Skinner re-signs. 8 years, $9M AAV.

[Royisgone]

I wish the Sabres could sue him for breach of contract or something..

In the world of pro sports, that's called cutting the player; put him on waivers, cut your losses, and move forward.

You can't do that in the NHL, and it has created the league we see today, along with the total lack of competitiveness during the regular season.

Even with all the lost seasons and CBA fighting, the owners still never figured out that you have to be able to cut guys and make them play with the fear of being cut.

 

[explore]

In the world of pro sports, that's called cutting the player; put him on waivers, cut your losses, and move forward.

You can't do that in the NHL, and it has created the league we see today, along with the total lack of competitiveness during the regular season.

Even with all the lost seasons and CBA fighting, the owners still never figured out that you have to be able to cut guys and make them play with the fear of being cut.

I think Skinner is a case study in learning not to sign a player looking for a retirement contract, but most of the blame should rightfully go to the GM/ownership for not only signing Skinner for that long of a contract, but also paying him significantly more than market value and giving him a full NMC

St. Louis' Doug Armstrong was right to put his foot down and not give in to Pietrangelo's demand for a full NMC. Not only did Army fleece the Pegula's of ROR, but he also learned from their mistake of signing Skinner to a ridiculous contract that they realistically can't move

Hopefully the Pegula's learn from their mistakes

 

[Member 308457]

Looking it up, Skinner has never been a plus player in his entire career. Every year he's a minus. The accumulated stat for his career is -119. He's not a good defensive player and this point I'd probably say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. He's a drain on Jack shooting. He can't pass. He had 32 assists in his rookie year and since then he's topped out at 25 assists in an entire season. He's easily pushed off the puck. If he isn't scoring goals, and he isn't, Skinner's completely useless.

 

[joshjull]

I think Skinner is a case study in learning not to sign a player looking for a retirement contract, but most of the blame should rightfully go to the GM/ownership for not only signing Skinner for that long of a contract, but also paying him significantly more than market value and giving him a full NMC

St. Louis' Doug Armstrong was right to put his foot down and not give in to Pietrangelo's demand for a full NMC. Not only did Army fleece the Pegula's of ROR, but he also learned from their mistake of signing Skinner to a ridiculous contract that they realistically can't move

Hopefully the Pegula's learn from their mistakes

I think the Pegulas have not only not learned that lesson. But keep signing off on GMs handing out progressively worse deals.

Murray gave us
Moulson -> 5yrs at 5mil per (M-NTC)
Okposo —-> 6yrs at 6mil per

Botts said hold my beer with Skinner’s deal.


Moulson was 30 when he signed/Okposo was 28/ Skinner was 27 yrs old.

If the Pegulas are as involved with contracts as is reported. Then they are signing off on these deals and haven’t learned a thing. Or they are giving their GMs more autonomy than we’re assuming in these situations. Or maybe more trust is the right way to put it.

 

[Buffaloed]

The problem with the Sabres free agent signings is they're looking for those last few pieces of the puzzle when they don't have a puzzle.

 

[Jim Bob]

The problem with the Sabres free agent signings is they're looking for those last few pieces of the puzzle when they don't have a puzzle.

They have a puzzle.

The problem is that they have about half the pieces from one puzzle and then a bunch of individual pieces from a random assortment of puzzles and it never makes a pretty picture.

It just leads to frustration.

 

[tsujimoto74]

The problem with the Sabres free agent signings is they're looking for those last few pieces of the puzzle when they don't have a puzzle.

That or they're building at least 2 entirely different puzzles together. The Sabres have some top shelf foundational pieces in Eichel and Dahlin, and some good secondary pieces to go with them. And then a bunch of overpaid junk players.

 

[Buffaloed]

They have a puzzle.

The problem is that they have about half the pieces from one puzzle and then a bunch of individual pieces from a random assortment of puzzles and it never makes a pretty picture.

It just leads to frustration.

Ray Ferraro said it best Jan 31, 2020
Ferraro on Hyman's play, Tavares' season and the Sabres' continued struggles (16:55)

"They sign Marcus Johansson to a 2 year deal. He's a winger, but he's their second line center.

Casey Mittelstadt they drafted him 2 years ago. The kid couldn't do a pullup. That should tell you with all due respect, physically he's not ready to play in this league so we're going to take our time with him. So they jammed him in the lineup. Well he's not ready to play. Now he's in the AHL trying to relearn to play.

They decided to get a bunch of dmen at the start of the year and they were going to use them for assets. Well they got a bunch of dmen that are middle of the road guys. They bring in Colin Miller for two 2nd round picks and they use him as the 7th D or he doesn't play. They got a mishmash of stuff. It's just stuff."

 

[Snippit]

3 goals and 4 assists in his last 45 games.

7 points in 45 games.

Man say what you will about Ralph or bad shooting luck, that's unbelievably awful. That's not even 4th line production over a sample of more than half of a season. It's not like he's even good defensively to compensate for this (he's actually quite bad defensively).

Worst contract in the league, and I think this surpasses the ROR trade as Botterill's worst mistake.

 

[TehDoak]

If I can circle back here. I was (and continue to be) the biggest critic of the Skinner contract. However, in the end, it's signed, it's immovable, so he's here and isn't going anywhere. So it's on the coaching to be adults and put him in a position to succeed even if he isn't "buying in" to whatever they are selling. Because a GOOD culture comes from winning. And it's alot easier to win with a guy who can put up 40 goals is producing. Put a guy who is, for his career, a 60% Ozone start guy into 56% D-zone starts isn't going to get you the results you want out of them. That's bad coaching.

 

[Fezzy126]

In my initial observations Taylor Hall plays quite a bit like Skinner away the puck. They both like to puck watch and roam. It's very odd that Krueger has such high respect for Hall's game and disdain for Skinner's.

 

[brian_griffin]

In my initial observations Taylor Hall plays quite a bit like Skinner away the puck. They both like to puck watch and roam. It's very odd that Krueger has such high respect for Hall's game and disdain for Skinner's.

Hall's game of late doesn't exonerate Skinner. In the 2/20/21 @ NJ Devils game, Hall frequently (nearly exclusively) roamed the far wing boards. LW in Pd 1,3, RW in Pd 2 with the "long change". Rarely retreated below his defensive blue line (but he did) and typically turned around, Jagr-esque, once the Sabres gained possession. On more occasions than not, when he did carry the puck into the o-zone, he typically curled parallel to the blue line, high in the zone, because he was engaged by a defender. Occasionally, he drove deeper with the puck before curling off to the half-wall but rarely (although he did do it a couple times) he actually drove it to the net. That needs to be the default play.
Both of them need to engage their linemates more, or at least not kill possession single-handedly.

 

[Dr Black]

It looks like Skinner is getting benched for tonight's game against the Islanders. Hopefully, this is the wake-up call that he needs.

Jeff Skinner may be benched against Islanders

 

[Ygo]

Looking it up, Skinner has never been a plus player in his entire career. Every year he's a minus. The accumulated stat for his career is -119. He's not a good defensive player and this point I'd probably say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. He's a drain on Jack shooting. He can't pass. He had 32 assists in his rookie year and since then he's topped out at 25 assists in an entire season. He's easily pushed off the puck. If he isn't scoring goals, and he isn't, Skinner's completely useless.

+/- is a bit lazy... Yeah, he is underperforming his contract substantially, but, the +/- is representative of his being on bad teams. Skinner on the left, compared to all star team mate on the right (ultimately, not too far off on +/-)... last season is a strong outlier and should be reason for concern, however, his line mate effectiveness was a concern. This year, he is not scoring, but, his line is holding its own and has a small element of danger. Not what you want for 9M, but, the coach gets the final say on where he plays. I bet if he played with Cozens he would look a lot better.

Skinner								All Star Team-mate
Season	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-			Season	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-		Team
10-11'	82	31	32	63	3	-66		Staal	81	33	43	76	-10	-54	-3
11-12'	64	20	24	44	-8		Staal	82	24	46	70	-20	-26
2012-13	42	13	11	24	-21		Staal	48	18	35	53	5	-22
2013-14	71	33	21	54	-14		Staal	79	21	40	61	-13	-21
2014-15	77	18	13	31	-24		Staal	77	23	31	54	-13	-36
2015-16	82	28	23	51	-2		Staal	63	10	23	33	-3	-25
2016-17	79	37	26	63	-3	-30		Faulk	75	17	20	37	-18	-44	-18
2017-18	82	24	25	49	-27		Faulk	76	8	23	31	-26	-18
2018-19	82	40	23	63	0	-23		Eichel	77	28	54	82	-11	-14	-47
2019-20	59	14	9	23	-22		Eichel	68	36	42	78	5	-23
2020-21	14	0	1	1	-1		Eichel	14	2	11	13	-8	-9
					-119								-112		-248

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Fjordy]

Krueger is a genius, we need to renew the contract with him for another five years.

 

[OkimLom]

YAY MORAL VICTORIES!!!! PARTICIPATION TROPHIES ALL AROUND!!!!!

 

[Fezzy126]

Lance with the elbow from the top rope

 

[Fjordy]

Lance with the elbow from the top rope

I completely agree. Why not let Skinner play with Eichel at least 5-7 games in a row? Is it really that difficult, he seems to have played 1-2 games with Jack, but this is not enough.

 

[sabremike]

Lance with the elbow from the top rope

When you are failing miserably at your job always come up with a scapegoat to distract everyone's attention from that fact.

 

[Member 308457]

+/- is a bit lazy... Yeah, he is underperforming his contract substantially, but, the +/- is representative of his being on bad teams. Skinner on the left, compared to all star team mate on the right (ultimately, not too far off on +/-)... last season is a strong outlier and should be reason for concern, however, his line mate effectiveness was a concern. This year, he is not scoring, but, his line is holding its own and has a small element of danger. Not what you want for 9M, but, the coach gets the final say on where he plays. I bet if he played with Cozens he would look a lot better.

Skinner								All Star Team-mate
Season	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-			Season	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-		Team
10-11'	82	31	32	63	3	-66		Staal	81	33	43	76	-10	-54	-3
11-12'	64	20	24	44	-8		Staal	82	24	46	70	-20	-26
2012-13	42	13	11	24	-21		Staal	48	18	35	53	5	-22
2013-14	71	33	21	54	-14		Staal	79	21	40	61	-13	-21
2014-15	77	18	13	31	-24		Staal	77	23	31	54	-13	-36
2015-16	82	28	23	51	-2		Staal	63	10	23	33	-3	-25
2016-17	79	37	26	63	-3	-30		Faulk	75	17	20	37	-18	-44	-18
2017-18	82	24	25	49	-27		Faulk	76	8	23	31	-26	-18
2018-19	82	40	23	63	0	-23		Eichel	77	28	54	82	-11	-14	-47
2019-20	59	14	9	23	-22		Eichel	68	36	42	78	5	-23
2020-21	14	0	1	1	-1		Eichel	14	2	11	13	-8	-9
					-119								-112		-248

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

We don't have much to go on except +/-, especially since creating "small elements of danger" is not a statistical category yet. +/- at least shows that he is on the ice many more for goals against than goals for. In other words, he's a loser. -119 is A LOT more goals to be on against than for, particularly since he's been known as a goal scorer. Notice when Carolina got to be a good team, they jettisoned Skinner. Why? Because he didn't hold up his end. Apparently he doesn't know how to play d and pairing him with Cozens, who's as sound as it gets for a 20 year old, doesn't cut it. You shouldn't be pressuring a 20 year old to hoist Skinner up by his own bootstraps...

 

[Ygo]

We don't have much to go on except +/-, especially since creating "small elements of danger" is not a statistical category yet. +/- at least shows that he is on the ice many more for goals against than goals for. In other words, he's a loser. -119 is A LOT more goals to be on against than for, particularly since he's been known as a goal scorer. Notice when Carolina got to be a good team, they jettisoned Skinner. Why? Because he didn't hold up his end. Apparently he doesn't know how to play d and pairing him with Cozens, who's as sound as it gets for a 20 year old, doesn't cut it. You shouldn't be pressuring a 20 year old to hoist Skinner up by his own bootstraps...

Come on, you cannot be serious! +/- is a complete byproduct of being on a bad team... Risto is -143 lol. Jack -68, Sam -80. I guess none of these guys will ever win anything. Phil Kessel is -100+ on his career, what a loser (was the leading scorer for the playoffs of a cup winning team!).

Dale Hawerchuk (HOFer who spent time in Buffalo was a career -94 I believe). +/- reflects the quality of your team, more than the quality of your play. If you play lots of minutes on a good team, you will see +'s, lots of minutes on a bad team you will see big -'s.

There are plenty of stats like 5 on 5 scoring, xGF, penalties drawn (19th in the league right now) etc that point to Skinner's value.

Please do not confuse this with supporting his current level of play, not good enough for 9M. Up to the team and coaching staff to get more out of him. The salary is what it is, he adds value to this team above several other players.

 

[Member 308457]

Come on, you cannot be serious! +/- is a complete byproduct of being on a bad team... Risto is -143 lol. Jack -68, Sam -80. I guess none of these guys will ever win anything. Phil Kessel is -100+ on his career, what a loser (was the leading scorer for the playoffs of a cup winning team!).

Dale Hawerchuk (HOFer who spent time in Buffalo was a career -94 I believe). +/- reflects the quality of your team, more than the quality of your play. If you play lots of minutes on a good team, you will see +'s, lots of minutes on a bad team you will see big -'s.

There are plenty of stats like 5 on 5 scoring, xGF, penalties drawn (19th in the league right now) etc that point to Skinner's value.

Please do not confuse this with supporting his current level of play, not good enough for 9M. Up to the team and coaching staff to get more out of him. The salary is what it is, he adds value to this team above several other players.

Let's take the years that Skinner was on the Hurricanes, 2011-2018. Here's the Canes' records for those years followed by Skinner's minus ratings:

2011-2012 33-33/82(-8)
2012-2013 19-25/42 (-21)
2013-2014 36-35/83 (-14)
2014-2015 30-41/71 (-24)
2015-2016 35-31/86 (-2)
2016-2017 36-31/87 (-3)
2017-2018 36-35/83 (-27)

As you can see, the Canes had a couple bad years, 19-25 and 30-41, and Skinner was very bad in those years.(-21/-24) But most of those Canes teams were mediocre teams, not bad teams. In his last season, the Canes were playing .500 hockey and Skinner came up with a -27. Bottom line, if you have have a mediocre or bad team, Skinner's not going to help you, he's going to hurt you defensively for sure.

Buffalo should have had foresight on this guy. But the team is in a constant state of crisis and can't perceive players correctly. And on top of that, I disagree with you, it's up to SKINNER to get more out of himself, it's not the team's responsibility to babysit this 11 year vet. If he feels he's hit an impasse, then he should demand a trade, contract be damned.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Krueger is going to really rock this benching out of the park. You are going to bench a former goal scorer who've for the majority of your time with him have played him with Sobotka, Lazar, Sheahan and Johanson and has now played exclusively on the 4th line.

And once the benching is over he will once again start on the 4th line with Sheahan and Lazar. In the third period he will spend 3 shifts with Eichel for a total of 2 minutes and 39 seconds, to which will of course be a failure since that line didn't score in this 3 shifts. Thus he must start next game on the 4th line.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

In my initial observations Taylor Hall plays quite a bit like Skinner away the puck. They both like to puck watch and roam. It's very odd that Krueger has such high respect for Hall's game and disdain for Skinner's.

It’s not Krueger, it’s his gut.