Value of: Jeff petry

[Legend123]

Cause he's an overrated number 4?

Forgot the ?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Cause he's an overrated number 4?

He is far from being a # 4
He is a #2 and has been playing like one since Weber's injury last year
Muzzin get's way too much hype on these boards

 

[Captain Mountain]

More balanced than last year is what I said, he was extremely sheltered then in less minutes

you seem to think that I'm saying "no we're good, Dermott is the answer", what I'm saying is "I'm not trading Dermott because he could be the answer and I'd like to find out"

There is no much difference between Dermott's usage this year to last.

And I wasn't really addressing Dermott as a trade chip, just that his play doesn't mean much from playing an elevated role this year.

That, and Toronto should look at addressing their very real defensive weakness now, since they have a window of opportunity. They don't need to sell the farm to do so either, but getting good players isn't cheap.

 

[CapSpace]

Forgot the ?

Hey don't you me!

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

If we can't get a Pacioretty type return for him (replacement level roster player, top prospect, pick) then its better to hang on to him. Have no interest in trading him for the 24th pick plus junk.

You won't get that, we managed to steal Tatar because the Knight's GM thought that he was a cap dump, they even retained on him.

 

[FrankMTL]

This is the mentality that caused the "Laughs" to be garbage for 50 years. The reality is that outside of Tavares this is their core

Matthews - 21 years old
Marner - 21 years old
Nylander - 22 years old
Rielly - 24 years old
Andersen - 29

Their next best forwards are Kapanen, 22 and Johnsson, 24 (Kadri fits here as well and is 28 but is not a critical piece for us this year).

On defense after Rielly, Gardiner is likely a cap casualty. This means their 2nd best D is Dermott, 21.

Next year they will be forced to promote the Marlies in order to fill the holes that get opened this offseason due to the cap making the team even younger.
The Leafs can afford to wait 3 or 4 years and compete as is and just keep drafting well and adding talent to the roster like every other team has done.

Tampa never went "all in" and moved their big guns for these types of moves. They were patient and moved lesser guys in that McDon deal. On top of that, their defense doesn't even look any better than ours by the eye test or the stats.

Last night the Lightning D looked just as scrambly and panicked in their own zone as the Leafs did. They won the game the same way the Leafs get criticized for, being in a turtle shell looking lost and having their goalie cover their mistakes.

On top of that, the Leafs defense is almost 10 spots higher (or was before last night) than theirs for GA.

And even if they DO have a better defense, the Leafs can wait a few years for their defense prospects to mature and come into top 4 pieces for us.

Or maybe a big UFA comes and signs in a few years. NO ONE saw Tavares signing here, no one saw Karlsson being dealt for that package, etc.

If anything, the Leafs SHOULD wait and take their time. They can afford to compete for the next few years with what they have.

The Lightning in your example had to go all in, their guys are all in their primes. Leafs guys are still on their ELC's.

Who said anything about moving a big gun? You're acting like you would decimate your team. We're talking about trading a prospect and a pick. I'm just saying things happen quickly in this league. One year you're a powerhouse and the next you're not. When you're good, you should take advantage of it to try and win the cup.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You won't get that, we managed to steal Tatar because the Knight's GM thought that he was a cap dump, they even retained on him.

Yes I tried to save myself a wordy reply wrt Tatar, who may end up being better than Pacioretty.

I don't expect that type of player in return for petry, maybe a younger inferior dman who could play top 4 on the Habs.

 

[Randy Randerson]

There is no much difference between Dermott's usage this year to last.

And I wasn't really addressing Dermott as a trade chip, just that his play doesn't mean much from playing an elevated role this year.

That, and Toronto should look at addressing their very real defensive weakness now, since they have a window of opportunity. They don't need to sell the farm to do so either, but getting good players isn't cheap.

there's not much difference, but there is positive difference in the role and his possession metrics have improved rather than regressed, so more elevation in the role is something we should explore

I agree that we need to address the defense, but there's no urgent need to do it today so I would explore internal options first before looking at rentals or Petry types. If we could get a long term solution by selling the farm, I'd do that - if we could get a Parayko for like Kapanen+Liljegren+Sandin or something along those lines I'd do it, that would make the team better for basically the whole contention widow of our core age players. Bandaids are something we can address later, and I know Petry is signed for 3 years but the age sort of puts him between the "long term solution" and "bandaid" categories for me

 

[Frank Drebin]

Petry is playing possibly the best hockey of his career, why the hell would we trade him?

Only to get a macpac type of return, otherwise we keep him at the very least till tdl 2021

 

[Randy Randerson]

Only to get a macpac type of return, otherwise we keep him at the very least till tdl 2021

how do you value Tatar in that transaction if you were replacing him with picks?

 

[Frank Drebin]

how do you value Tatar in that transaction if you were replacing him with picks?

Tough one. Personally I'd rather have trending prospects than draft picks, ie I'd rather have suzuki that the 13th pick.

From Toronto I'd rather target your recent first round selections than have your pick. I just don't have a lot of faith in our scouting and development team.

Gun to head:. 10-15th pick or equivalent package

 

[FerrisRox]

what about a deadline deal of 1st+Bracco *if Bracco keeps surging in the AHL (16pts in his last 15 games), would that be of any interest to Montreal?

Bracco would be of no interest.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Tough one. Personally I'd rather have trending prospects than draft picks, ie I'd rather have suzuki that the 13th pick.

From Toronto I'd rather target your recent first round selections than have your pick. I just don't have a lot of faith in our scouting and development team.

Gun to head:. 10-15th pick or equivalent package

ya just trying to do the math on what a Pacioretty type package looks like because Tatar is such a wildcard in that one. Vegas overpaid for him badly at 1st+2nd+3rd, and at an equivalent to Suzuki+1st+2x2nds+3rd there's no way we'd be in on a Petry deal, but if Tatar is worth a 2nd+3rd it starts to look more reasonable from our end, like a Sandin+Borgman/Rosen (plug-in LHD with some upside but not a ton)+2nd/Bracco/etc might make sense for us

Bracco would be of no interest.

the capacity that I'd use him in for the purposes of a deal like this is a substitute for a 2nd rounder, if he's ppg in the AHL at the deadline I think he's worth more than that in a vacuum, that would signal a floor rising to me which is the concern for Bracco rather than the ceiling

 

[Mike Dukarm]

I would take Petry before Muzzin any time.... Habs would get more from Petry... younger players, prospect or draft pick

 

[Frank Drebin]

ya just trying to do the math on what a Pacioretty type package looks like because Tatar is such a wildcard in that one. Vegas overpaid for him badly at 1st+2nd+3rd, and at an equivalent to Suzuki+1st+2x2nds+3rd there's no way we'd be in on a Petry deal, but if Tatar is worth a 2nd+3rd it starts to look more reasonable from our end, like a Sandin+Borgman/Rosen (plug-in LHD with some upside but not a ton)+2nd/Bracco/etc might make sense for us


the capacity that I'd use him in for the purposes of a deal like this is a substitute for a 2nd rounder, if he's ppg in the AHL at the deadline I think he's worth more than that in a vacuum, that would signal a floor rising to me which is the concern for Bracco rather than the ceiling

I was just thinking about my valuation on Tatar and its how I value him today ie) why the hell would you trade a good top 6 winger for anything less than a top 15 pick, not on how he was valued when the trade happened.

At the time of the trade Tatar had a value that was tough to gauge, he was recently traded for a ransom at the TDL then was a healthy scratch during the playoffs. Still, he was a proven 50 point player on a good contract so he did have value, I'd peg it closer to Toronto's 2019 1st than a top 10-15 pick.

Torontos equivalent of Suzuki
2019 1st or Sandin or Liljegren
2nd round pick or equivalent

Now, who is Torontos equivalent of Suzuki?

 

[Liferleafer]

I was just thinking about my valuation on Tatar and its how I value him today ie) why the hell would you trade a good top 6 winger for anything less than a top 15 pick, not on how he was valued when the trade happened.

At the time of the trade Tatar had a value that was tough to gauge, he was recently traded for a ransom at the TDL then was a healthy scratch during the playoffs. Still, he was a proven 50 point player on a good contract so he did have value, I'd peg it closer to Toronto's 2019 1st than a top 10-15 pick.

Torontos equivalent of Suzuki
2019 1st or Sandin or Liljegren
2nd round pick or equivalent

Now, who is Torontos equivalent of Suzuki?

I am jumping in here late...so i haven't read the chain of posts leading up to this one, but this isn't what you are expecting for Petry....right?

 

[sheed36]

If Petry were made available and the best offer I could get is a very late 1st + Bracco I'd rather just keep him since his value to the Habs right now is way more than that return. The Habs could wait 2 years and probably still get a decent return of a pick and prospect for Petry when he would be a pure rental especially if his play doesn't drop off much.

Jeff Petry has become a very underrated player on HF and I highly doubt the Habs move him this season.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I am jumping in here late...so i haven't read the chain of posts leading up to this one, but this isn't what you are expecting for Petry....right?

I am fully not expecting to trade petry unless it's for a maxpac type return.

I'm not demanding anything, just spitballing an equivalent package from the leafs.

I'm sure you can pick up another 50 point rhd elsewhere anyways.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I was just thinking about my valuation on Tatar and its how I value him today ie) why the hell would you trade a good top 6 winger for anything less than a top 15 pick, not on how he was valued when the trade happened.

At the time of the trade Tatar had a value that was tough to gauge, he was recently traded for a ransom at the TDL then was a healthy scratch during the playoffs. Still, he was a proven 50 point player on a good contract so he did have value, I'd peg it closer to Toronto's 2019 1st than a top 10-15 pick.

Torontos equivalent of Suzuki
2019 1st or Sandin or Liljegren
2nd round pick or equivalent

Now, who is Torontos equivalent of Suzuki?

Toronto's Suzuki is Sandin or Liljegren. I think that gets too rich for us then. I'd be happy to add more quantity of decent things but personally I'd be out on any deal that included two of our 1st, Liljegren or Sandin. I'd rather add to that to get a longer term solution guy like Pesce/Parayko

I am jumping in here late...so i haven't read the chain of posts leading up to this one, but this isn't what you are expecting for Petry....right?

ya that's the context

I am fully not expecting to trade petry unless it's for a maxpac type return.

I'm not demanding anything, just spitballing an equivalent package from the leafs.

I'm sure you can pick up another 50 point rhd elsewhere anyways.

the offense really isn't what we need, its a dman who can handle the usage and play the right side. I'd take Brodin over Petry as an example because he'll probably be here longer even if he doesn't have as much to offer offensively

 

[Frank Drebin]

Toronto's Suzuki is Sandin or Liljegren. I think that gets too rich for us then. I'd be happy to add more quantity of decent things but personally I'd be out on any deal that included two of our 1st, Liljegren or Sandin. I'd rather add to that to get a longer term solution guy like Pesce/Parayko


ya that's the context


the offense really isn't what we need, its a dman who can handle the usage and play the right side. I'd take Brodin over Petry as an example because he'll probably be here longer even if he doesn't have as much to offer offensively

That's fair, just might not be a fit between the teams right now.

I have really no interest in trading petry right now, I used to bag on him but he's been unreal for us so I'd need good value in return

 

[Randy Randerson]

That's fair, just might not be a fit between the teams right now.

I have really no interest in trading petry right now, I used to bag on him but he's been unreal for us so I'd need good value in return

I'd expect Montreal to keep him as long as you're in playoff contention honestly

 

[CHaracter79]

IF leafs were trading Gardiner.. what would they ask for... then add more to that... and significant more

1. Petry is not an UFA
2. Petry is a RHD and scores more goals since coming to mtl ( 35 in 264 games) (gardiner has 30 G in 354 games same years) on some of the worst offenses and PP in league for Petry
3. His metrics are insane
4. cap hit is fantastic for 45-55 point D man.


Also stop comparing Gardiner and Petry

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Gardiner + 1st gets the conversation started for Petry.

 

[ole ole]

Gardiner + 1st gets the conversation started for Petry.

Not even close. Petry >> Gardiner A late 1st doesn't even come close to making up the difference.

 

[ole ole]

Mete for Gardiner?

Is Gardiner sign for a few more seasons...No there you go.