Jason Spezza Thread

[StefanW]

unfortunately those teams all seem to a have higher amount they wont spend above.

Fact is 20 teams spent within $1 million of the cap.
then a few others within $2 million

then our tax bracket about $8 million under the cap:
24th Buffalo (have committed to spending much much more under new ownership)
25th Edmonton (not sure what the plan is there.)
26th Ottawa

then these guys:
Calgary (super young team good reason for being low)
Colorado (have historically been cap team, super young talent not yet been paid)
NYI (who knows WTF is up with them.)
Florida (we know what's up with them, and they are super young, but have committed to spending whatever is necessary.)

The cap is also going up next year but our 'budget is moving up less than $1 million as per BG article today. So next year we will be even worse relatively speaking budget wise compared to the rest of the league.

Im not saying this to advocate money dump trucks for any ufa available. Im saying this because at that level we will not be retaining good players that we need.

CapGeek seems to be down for me right now for some reason, but you have to be careful. I think the figures I bolded are cap hits, not spending. That matters a great deal, because when you look at spending there are typically fewer teams pushed right up against the cap. Our internal budget has to do with spending, of course, and cap hits are meaningless.

 

[HockeySens]

If spezza gets traded I hope he becomes a 90 point player playing good enoguh defense. And leads that team into the playoffs

 

[blahblah3]

If spezza gets traded I hope he becomes a 90 point player playing good enoguh defense. And leads that team into the playoffs

Me to. Preferably we could trade him to Anaheim and watch him sabotage their otherwise perfect defensive game from within. Over his last 20 games he was a "-" in almost half of them. Can you say "carry the team on his back" for me?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The difference being that it's the owner who is investing the money, not the player. The player is...playing a game for money.

Not that I really care either way. I still find it funny that no matter how much money they have it's never enough. I mean, without even making investments you could live more than comfortably on the interest from 5mil alone.

I understand the sentiment. My paycheck is brutal and the idea of seeing others playing a game for millions is mind-boggling. Hell, I would be thrilled to get $1 million and could live the rest of my days happily on that without working another day.

But, then again, if Alfredsson took another discount, what does it really do? Do we get cheaper tickets? No. Does the team suddenly start spending to the cap? No. Do we suddenly become an attractive destination to free agents? No. All it does is put a few extra dollars in Melynks' pocket.

So why bother? If you have the skillset to be worth millions to some employer out there, might as well get whatever you can.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Me to. Preferably we could trade him to Anaheim and watch him sabotage their otherwise perfect defensive game from within. Over his last 20 games he was a "-" in almost half of them. Can you say "carry the team on his back" for me?

Wasn't he like -1 or 2 over that time line? How many game winning power play goals did he have over that stretch? I'm sorry to make you actually acknowledge facts. That must be hard.

Edit: -2 over his last 20 games. 21 points. 3 game winning goals. At least two shootout winners (Tampa and Pittsburgh from my memory). I believe the team was 11-6-3 in that stretch.

 

[blahblah3]

Wasn't he like -1 or 2 over that time line? How many game winning power play goals did he have over that stretch? I'm sorry to make you actually acknowledge facts. That must be hard.

Edit: -2 over his last 20 games. 21 points. 3 game winning goals. At least two shootout winners (Tampa and Pittsburgh from my memory). I believe the team was 11-6-3 in that stretch.

Do yourself a favor and compare that to Turris' numbers, and think about who is a better two way player. Calling a guy a great two-way player who manages to be a net negative in almost half of the games needed to make a playoff spot is priceless. Please, continue.

 

[MiscBrah]

Do yourself a favor and compare that to Turris' numbers, and think about who is a better two way player. Calling a guy a great two-way player who manages to be a net negative in almost half of the games needed to make a playoff spot is priceless. Please, continue.

Why does it always have to be a comparison between Spezza and Turris? Spezza is better offensively and Turris is better defensively. Wow, groundbreaking stuff.

I don't think I've heard one advocate of Spezza say that we should trade Turris to keep Spezza. In a realistic world I'd like to have both of them on the team, like we have for the 3 seasons.

How is your post even a response to Spezza's play down the stretch? Outside of a couple breakdowns, he played as well as he's going to, and he got results. Both for himself and for the team.

After his horrible start Spezza really salvaged his season and went back to being the dominant player that he's been his whole career. I swear to god some of you guys seem to isolate Spezza's career as the first 40 games of this season. It's like he never played the 600 NHL games before and he never played the 40 after.

It's actually really strange. Kind of reminds of the treatment of another sens captain...

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Do yourself a favor and compare that to Turris' numbers, and think about who is a better two way player. Calling a guy a great two-way player who manages to be a net negative in almost half of the games needed to make a playoff spot is priceless. Please, continue.

I will oblige.

I'll first make a sweeping statement that most will agree with. This season was lost in the stretch after the Olympic break, from the Detroit blowout all the way to the afternoon game in Dallas. An 11 game stretch where the team went 2-7-2.

Turris in that stretch: 4 points, -3.
Spezza in that stretch: 13 points, +1.

Furthermore, addressing the bolded part, you either don't know what net negative means or how plus/minus is calculated (which would explain A LOT about your posts), because Spezza would not have been a NET NEGATIVE over the course of the last 20 games. Just his powerplay goals alone would bring him even, let alone all the assists he had on the PP. At the end of the day, the team with the best goal differential in a game wins, not the team with the best plus/minus. Really don't know where I said Spezza was a great two way player, so I'm not really sure where that came from. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?

Just to add context to Spezza's final 20 games, here's Getzlaf's: 20 points, +4. Giroux: 25 points, +9, Seguin 26 points, +5.

 

[blahblah3]

I will oblige.

I'll first make a sweeping statement that most will agree with. This season was lost in the stretch after the Olympic break, from the Detroit blowout all the way to the afternoon game in Dallas. An 11 game stretch where the team went 2-7-2.

Turris in that stretch: 4 points, -3.
Spezza in that stretch: 13 points, +1.

Furthermore, addressing the bolded part, you either don't know what net negative means or how plus/minus is calculated (which would explain A LOT about your posts), because Spezza would not have been a NET NEGATIVE over the course of the last 20 games. Just his powerplay goals alone would bring him even, let alone all the assists he had on the PP. At the end of the day, the team with the best goal differential in a game wins, not the team with the best plus/minus. Really don't know where I said Spezza was a great two way player, so I'm not really sure where that came from. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?

Just to add context to Spezza's final 20 games, here's Getzlaf's: 20 points, +4. Giroux: 25 points, +9, Seguin 26 points, +5.

I am saying that he was a negative in almost half (9) of the last 20 games, which people are claiming he was "good" defensively. He wasn't. He was better, but still not good, or even average.

People seem to be claiming he played amazing over the last 20 games. While I don't think he played bad in half of the last 20 games, he certainly wasn't throwing the team on his back and carrying them into the glory of the playoffs either. He probably had close to 6-8 bad games where he was a defensive liability on the ice. He made improvements but all year he resisted playing the 200 foot game Maclean wanted, for some reason.

PS . KT was a + 6 over the last 20 he played.

 

[YNWA14]

I am saying that he was a negative in almost half (9) of the last 20 games, which people are claiming he was "good" defensively. He wasn't. He was better, but still not good, or even average.

People seem to be claiming he played amazing over the last 20 games. While I don't think he played bad in half of the last 20 games, he certainly wasn't throwing the team on his back and carrying them into the glory of the playoffs either. He probably had close to 6-8 bad games where he was a defensive liability on the ice. He made improvements but all year he resisted playing the 200 foot game Maclean wanted, for some reason.

PS . KT was a + 6 over the last 20 he played.

Spezza was playing injured most of, if not all of, this year. We saw in the 3 years previous to this one that he was more than capable of playing a reliable two-way game without being a liability to the team. What don't people get about this? Why the constant comparisons to Turris? Their role, skillset and health were completely different.

Spezza bounced back as the year went on, and if he's given the chance to next year, and he stays healthy, he will bounce back to being one of the top 10 - 15 players in the league. If the Sens want to compete he's going to be a very important part of that, if the Sens don't want to compete they'll move him and we're in for a few rough years.

Although I do like how you conveniently ignore what FQL just brought up -- the stretch of games that was most important to our playoff push.

 

[TheOneFootedSauce25]

I will oblige.

I'll first make a sweeping statement that most will agree with. This season was lost in the stretch after the Olympic break, from the Detroit blowout all the way to the afternoon game in Dallas. An 11 game stretch where the team went 2-7-2.

Turris in that stretch: 4 points, -3.
Spezza in that stretch: 13 points, +1.

Furthermore, addressing the bolded part, you either don't know what net negative means or how plus/minus is calculated (which would explain A LOT about your posts), because Spezza would not have been a NET NEGATIVE over the course of the last 20 games. Just his powerplay goals alone would bring him even, let alone all the assists he had on the PP. At the end of the day, the team with the best goal differential in a game wins, not the team with the best plus/minus. Really don't know where I said Spezza was a great two way player, so I'm not really sure where that came from. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?

Just to add context to Spezza's final 20 games, here's Getzlaf's: 20 points, +4. Giroux: 25 points, +9, Seguin 26 points, +5.

thank you for this. i also dont understand the turris v. spezza argument. we can have both and since were pushing one out the door its almost like we can sit there and say "well we still have turris and hes better because blah blah blah." we sound like ******* children. some hate spezza and some love him but realistically this team is better with him. i dont see the conversation here

 

[Do Make Say Think]

There is not much of a conversation to be had with people who don't see anything good in Spezza and simply repeat his +/- to prove how bad he is (nevermind that, like Quantum indicated, those individuals do not seem to be aware that PP points do not count towards +/-)

 

[Burrowsaurus]

its as if turris and spezza are fighting for the same spot, theyre not. You are allowed 4 lines in the NHL. not 1. we are allowed to have 2+ good centers.

 

[blahblah3]

Spezza was playing injured most of, if not all of, this year. We saw in the 3 years previous to this one that he was more than capable of playing a reliable two-way game without being a liability to the team. What don't people get about this? Why the constant comparisons to Turris? Their role, skillset and health were completely different.

Spezza bounced back as the year went on, and if he's given the chance to next year, and he stays healthy, he will bounce back to being one of the top 10 - 15 players in the league. If the Sens want to compete he's going to be a very important part of that, if the Sens don't want to compete they'll move him and we're in for a few rough years.

Although I do like how you conveniently ignore what FQL just brought up -- the stretch of games that was most important to our playoff push.

I am trying to stay on topic by referring to what Mendes and people on the board are talking about - the last 20 games where Spezza was a -2.

 

[Benjamin]

I think Spezza can get close to his 11-12 level defensively(Average. Which is great considering his offense and possession ability). It depends if he can get his speed back, which is clearly slowly coming back and he doesn't waste time on the PK. And he'll look a ton better without Michalek(Murray pls) and Phillips getting less ice time(Maclean pls).

Its pointless to bother talking about his defense at this point. Theres no way he'll repeat this seasons facepalm defense. Unless he gets injured again.

His injuries and potential future injuries are what scare me.

 

[coladin]

If Spezza does not return, Turris will be hard pressed to be as good as he was this year. Spezza take a lot of pressure off him and having these two guys together n this team makes Ottawa work.

Turris is excellent. He is no Spezza. Spezza can, and has, won hockey games on his own.

 

[John Holmes*]

If Spezza does not return, Turris will be hard pressed to be as good as he was this year. Spezza take a lot of pressure off him and having these two guys together n this team makes Ottawa work.

Turris is excellent. He is no Spezza. Spezza can, and has, won hockey games on his own.

Why?

Turris already faced harder QoC than Spezza this season.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I'm lazy but Id be curious to see where people have Spezza ranked among number 1 centers in terms of speed and mobility?

Is Spezza the worst skating number one center?

 

[The Waffler]

I'm lazy but Id be curious to see where people have Spezza ranked among number 1 centers in terms of speed and mobility?

Is Spezza the worst skating number one center?

Who are the #1C's in this league?

Whichever center gets the most ice time on each team?

How many teams have a true #1 C?

 

[Benjamin]

I'm lazy but Id be curious to see where people have Spezza ranked among number 1 centers in terms of speed and mobility?

Is Spezza the worst skating number one center?

Its between Spezza and Thornton.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Who are the #1C's in this league?

Whichever center gets the most ice time on each team?

How many teams have a true #1 C?

Top offensive center on each club then

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I'm lazy but Id be curious to see where people have Spezza ranked among number 1 centers in terms of speed and mobility?

Is Spezza the worst skating number one center?

There is a difference between skating and speed, and you really shouldn't use them interchangeably. For instance, Corey Perry is not fast at all, but if you played a game of skating HORSE with difficult figure skating moves forward and backward, he'd probably wipe the floor with 90% of NHLers. And this does translate into NHL success, because the guy can control the puck, while shifting his body in different ways to block out a checker. It is something to behold, and more valuable shift in and shift out than brilliant straight away speed like that of Colin Greening. In the end, Perry IS a better skater than Greening - even though he is slower.

Similarly, Spezza has well below acceleration in his first few strides, but his top gear when he is at full stride is probably ABOVE average, amongst NHLers forwards. Taking into account his body control on the fly, along with puck control, and skating is really not a weakness for Spezza. Defensively it does come back to bite him a bit, because most defence is taught in terms of quick stops and starts now (v tight turns to change directions like in past), so he labours with this at time in terms of forechecking and pursuing the puck, but overall, skating is actually a strength. Offensively it is, anyways.

 

[John Holmes*]

He sucks defensively because he is lazy, not because he is slow.

 

[The Waffler]

Top offensive center on each club then

I mean, there isn't much of an argument to be made. Speed/Agility wise he was very slow to start the season and in general is a usual step below average skating wise.

I remember when we used to say it was because of his long stride.

When he's on he looks fast though. When he's on.

 

[DueDiligence]

There is a difference between skating and speed, and you really shouldn't use them interchangeably. For instance, Corey Perry is not fast at all, but if you played a game of skating HORSE with difficult figure skating moves forward and backward, he'd probably wipe the floor with 90% of NHLers. And this does translate into NHL success, because the guy can control the puck, while shifting his body in different ways to block out a checker. It is something to behold, and more valuable shift in and shift out than brilliant straight away speed like that of Colin Greening. In the end, Perry IS a better skater than Greening - even though he is slower.

Similarly, Spezza has well below acceleration in his first few strides, but his top gear when he is at full stride is probably ABOVE average, amongst NHLers forwards. Taking into account his body control on the fly, along with puck control, and skating is really not a weakness for Spezza. Defensively it does come back to bite him a bit, because most defence is taught in terms of quick stops and starts now (v tight turns to change directions like in past), so he labours with this at time in terms of forechecking and pursuing the puck, but overall, skating is actually a strength. Offensively it is, anyways.

Great points. Explains why Spezza is better at "O" then "D". He doesn't have the quickness to react to situations like turnovers especially in his own zone. Thus he needs to limit his bad plays there.