Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[CatsforReinhart]

Olofsson was drafted in 2014, which was Murray's first draft.

I don't think the poster's intention was to give credit to Botts for VO. I think the posters intention was to point out it will be his first full season on the roster at the beginning of the year. Its going to be a very different team this year than from last. Its definitely not shuffling chairs.

 

[Paxon]

I don't think the poster's intention was to give credit to Botts for VO. I think the posters intention was to point out it will be his first full season on the roster at the beginning of the year. Its going to be a very different team this year than from last. Its definitely not shuffling chairs.

Makes sense. If you look over the past two seasons (including guys like Skinner, ROR) the roster is quite different.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

I think Botts is here long term. I am not going to guess points vs firing.

Its the impression that I get after the past 5 years of a mess.

Hope he gets a 2C before Eichel requests a trade.

 

[Chainshot]

Hope he gets a 2C before Eichel requests a trade.

That will be what they get in return for him.

 

[Buffaloed]

For the record: Botterill is a bigger bust as GM than he was as a player. I think he's worst GM in the NHL but I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. I don't think he's capable of wiping his butt without spending a week researching the situation. In other words he stinks.

 

[slip]

For the record: Botterill is a bigger bust as GM than he was as a player. I think he's worst GM in the NHL but I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. I don't think he's capable of wiping his butt without spending a week researching the situation. In other words he stinks.

I fundamentally hate the team he's built: not much character, zero attitude, and chock full of p***yes. This is my team so I have no choice but to hope for the best. But it's hard to disguise my underlying disgust for Bott's roster moves even if I'm trying to see the silver lining in things. On the bright side, barring a Kreuger miracle, he'll be shown the door in April.

 

[5 Minute Major]

The team he has put on the ice is garbage.

It will be years before the Buffalo Sabres are a competitive outfit.

 

[Buffaloed]

The team he has put on the ice is garbage.

It will be years before the Buffalo Sabres are a competitive outfit.

His hiring set the Sabres back at least 3 years. He made the team worse. It would be competitive now if he had built on what Murray started instead of tearing it down.

 

[Tatre]

So what happened today to start the angst torrent?

 

[joshjull]

So what happened today to start the angst torrent?

Nothing

 

[sabremike]

His hiring set the Sabres back at least 3 years. He made the team worse. It would be competitive now if he had built on what Murray started instead of tearing it down.

View attachment 256595

Just looking at the goal differentials under Abysmal compared to Phail is pretty mindblowing. Dan was bad, Housley was off the charts terrible.

 

[Buffaloed]

So what happened today to start the angst torrent?

It's a bookmark for the next person who calls me a Botterill apologist. Just because I say nice things about him when I think he does good, it doesn't mean I'm a fan of his. It was the same way with Housley.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Nothing

This, of course, being the problem.

 

[joshjull]

This, of course, being the problem.

Touché

 

[Dubi Doo]

So what happened today to start the angst torrent?

For me it was watching the preseason game last night and getting flashbacks to last year. It had nothing to do with the game being played. Just being reminded of who is in charge, how he constructed the offense, and how this team once again has zero punch on offense.

Also, it looks like once again we will lack any sort of depth and solid two way contributors. I'd give him a pass for not filling the black hole at 2C if he didnt create it himself. He should have completely rehauled the offense. Instead he added another one dimensional goal scorer and Johansson, who I'm a fan of.

Sheary and Sobotka should have been launched into the sun already, especially Sobotka who was spineless critter last year. At times I wish Brandon Beane could take the helm because players like Sobotka wouldn't have lasted a month let alone an entire year+.

Sobo getting the A in preseason scares the shit out of me, like do they actually view this clown as a leader?

 

[Tatre]

It's a bookmark for the next person who calls me a Botterill apologist. Just because I say nice things about him when I think he does good, it doesn't mean I'm a fan of his. It was the same way with Housley.

I see that from your other posts, so not trying to expose you as a Bott-buddy .
Filing it under the chronic sads, rather than acute, "JB announces tank year 3", rage.

 

[Tatre]

For me it was watching the preseason game last night and getting flashbacks to last year. It had nothing to do with the game being played. Just being reminded of who is in charge, how he constructed the offense, and how this team once again has zero punch on offense.

Also, it looks like once again we will lack any sort of depth and solid two way contributors. I'd give him a pass for not filling the black hole at 2C if he didnt create it himself. He should have completely rehauled the offense. Instead he added another one dimensional goal scorer and Johansson, who I'm a fan of.

Sheary and Sobotka should have been launched into the sun already, especially Sobotka who was spineless critter last year. At times I wish Brandon Beane could take the helm because players like Sobotka wouldn't have lasted a month let alone an entire year+.

I feel that. At this point, you'd think he would jump at the chance to let more prospects graduate-when they don't do too well, he can use the "young team" line to cover.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

So what happened today to start the angst torrent?

Sobotka and Okposo surviving the first round of cuts?

 

[sabremike]

Pretty much where I'm at on the subject.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

I am hoping that Beane and McDermott's success gives the Pegulas serious pause for thought concerning Botterill. Beane/McDermott had a real plan and worked it and here the Bills are looking very much like a rising power in the NFL. There has been no real plan with Botterill, he walked in here like he was being hired to manage an expansion team, pre-Vegas expansion team. It wasn't an expansion team, it had 2 second overall picks with 2 years experience under their belts and one of the league's premier 2 way centers in O'Reilly.

Other than the laughably bad ROR trade his biggest transgression was what he did last December and January, which was nothing. He let his players, coaches, owners, fans drown without lifting a finger to try to help. There were players in Rochester who could have been called up, Olofsson, Pilut, Nylander. There were trades he could have made. He could have fired Housley as the team spiraled towards oblivion. He did nothing.

He doesn't seem to be a good evaluator of pro players, so many deadbeat players he's traded for and signed. He has no vision for the kind of team he wants to build, the roster is a complete mishmash. His experience in Pittsburgh is fairly useless, you can't apply their situation to many others, having 2 Hall of Famers as your centers is totally unique in the modern NHL.

The only one who can save his job is Krueger. If Botterill survives another bottom 8 finish then all hope is lost for this franchise. No GM or coach of the Bills or Sabres has survived 3 losing seasons, he'd be the first.

Drafting can't be judged for years, maybe he's done fantastic there or maybe he's a bust there too. You don't keep a GM around because of drafts that won't bear fruit for years.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

His hiring set the Sabres back at least 3 years. He made the team worse. It would be competitive now if he had built on what Murray started instead of tearing it down.

View attachment 256595

This is absolutely ridiculous!! Murray took the 2015 draft, which SHOULD have been the huge reward for Regier starting the tear down, and flushed it down the toilet because he was impatient and thought his personal choices of making a big, strong, tough playoff contender was worth throwing all that draft and prospect capital away. To suggest that Murray built ANYTHING other than a @#$% team with lesser picks and prospects than what he was given to start with, is a flat out fantasy. He took a bad prospect pool and kept it bad, failed to turn Rochester into a quality development destination, and added one...ONE...quality playoff caliber player in O'Reilly.

The curious thing about his ONLY successful trade as GM, is that he could have relied on the best draft in years to solve all his problems, instead of going hard after O'Reilly. Who in their right mind would choose to have Kane, Bogosian, O'Reilly, Lehner, Fasching, and Deslauriers, instead of Myers, Armia, Lemieux, a 2nd/3rd for Stafford, Roslovic, a 3rd or so for Grigorenko, Zadorov, Compher, Aho, White/Boeser/Konecny, McNabb and another couple 2nds? Murray was put in charge of a re-build with a trust fund to work with. Botterill was put in charge of a re-build after the first one failed, with nothing extra in the bank.

The total gems available in that draft would have this team as a solid Cup contender right now, and the rest of the picks and prospects not traded away would either be solid depth or used to acquire it. Complaining about Botterill is one thing, but complaining that Botterill didn't continue with what Murray "built" because he hasn't kept doing what Murray did, which was hurling this franchise head-first into a brick wall, is complete fantasy. It's as if you truly have no idea how awful a job Murray did, and how much of a hole he dug this team into. I have no special thing for Botterill, I just know that ANY GM taking over after Murray had the task of improving what was basically an expansion franchise without the new favorable expansion draft. Little talent, little depth, little in the prospect pool, and a farm team that wasn't developing anyone, and few decent coaches. How is a GM supposed to hire a quality HC that wants to suffer through a ground-up re-build? How fast is a GM supposed to turn that mess into a contender? For anyone to think that should happen in three seasons, without giving away the farm again, is a la-la land optimist.

 

[jcbeze]

I am hoping that Beane and McDermott's success gives the Pegulas serious pause for thought concerning Botterill. Beane/McDermott had a real plan and worked it and here the Bills are looking very much like a rising power in the NFL. There has been no real plan with Botterill, he walked in here like he was being hired to manage an expansion team, pre-Vegas expansion team. It wasn't an expansion team, it had 2 second overall picks with 2 years experience under their belts and one of the league's premier 2 way centers in O'Reilly.

Other than the laughably bad ROR trade his biggest transgression was what he did last December and January, which was nothing. He let his players, coaches, owners, fans drown without lifting a finger to try to help. There were players in Rochester who could have been called up, Olofsson, Pilut, Nylander. There were trades he could have made. He could have fired Housley as the team spiraled towards oblivion. He did nothing.

He doesn't seem to be a good evaluator of pro players, so many deadbeat players he's traded for and signed. He has no vision for the kind of team he wants to build, the roster is a complete mishmash. His experience in Pittsburgh is fairly useless, you can't apply their situation to many others, having 2 Hall of Famers as your centers is totally unique in the modern NHL.

The only one who can save his job is Krueger. If Botterill survives another bottom 8 finish then all hope is lost for this franchise. No GM or coach of the Bills or Sabres has survived 3 losing seasons, he'd be the first.

Drafting can't be judged for years, maybe he's done fantastic there or maybe he's a bust there too. You don't keep a GM around because of drafts that won't bear fruit for years.

they beat the Jets, Giants and Bengals....pump the brakes

 

[DJN21]

This is absolutely ridiculous!! Murray took the 2015 draft, which SHOULD have been the huge reward for Regier starting the tear down, and flushed it down the toilet because he was impatient and thought his personal choices of making a big, strong, tough playoff contender was worth throwing all that draft and prospect capital away. To suggest that Murray built ANYTHING other than a @#$% team with lesser picks and prospects than what he was given to start with, is a flat out fantasy. He took a bad prospect pool and kept it bad, failed to turn Rochester into a quality development destination, and added one...ONE...quality playoff caliber player in O'Reilly.

The curious thing about his ONLY successful trade as GM, is that he could have relied on the best draft in years to solve all his problems, instead of going hard after O'Reilly. Who in their right mind would choose to have Kane, Bogosian, O'Reilly, Lehner, Fasching, and Deslauriers, instead of Myers, Armia, Lemieux, a 2nd/3rd for Stafford, Roslovic, a 3rd or so for Grigorenko, Zadorov, Compher, Aho, White/Boeser/Konecny, McNabb and another couple 2nds? Murray was put in charge of a re-build with a trust fund to work with. Botterill was put in charge of a re-build after the first one failed, with nothing extra in the bank.

The total gems available in that draft would have this team as a solid Cup contender right now, and the rest of the picks and prospects not traded away would either be solid depth or used to acquire it. Complaining about Botterill is one thing, but complaining that Botterill didn't continue with what Murray "built" because he hasn't kept doing what Murray did, which was hurling this franchise head-first into a brick wall, is complete fantasy. It's as if you truly have no idea how awful a job Murray did, and how much of a hole he dug this team into. I have no special thing for Botterill, I just know that ANY GM taking over after Murray had the task of improving what was basically an expansion franchise without the new favorable expansion draft. Little talent, little depth, little in the prospect pool, and a farm team that wasn't developing anyone, and few decent coaches. How is a GM supposed to hire a quality HC that wants to suffer through a ground-up re-build? How fast is a GM supposed to turn that mess into a contender? For anyone to think that should happen in three seasons, without giving away the farm again, is a la-la land optimist.

I'm either misreading as I've been up since 3am or perplexed. I don't agree with many of the trades made by Botts or Murray for that matter. I stand in neither court. But did you just say you'd rather have

Myers
Armia
Rsolovic
Brendan was never gonna play here whatever
McNabb

over ROR
Kane
lehner?

yes I Get there was other pieces mentioned...mostly hypothetical because we didn't draft them...could very well be adding eric conrell x3 to that list if we were drafting. Yes I'd take the 3 bonafied NHler players vs Grigorenko and a grab bag of meh.

Lets face facts none of these deals actually put us behind. I'll support Compher because I think hes a player and will give you that. Zads will be unprotected in the expansion draft and hasn't taken the step forward worthy of batting an eye at yet. Move the hell on. We gave up nothing and got basically nothing without expanding the ROR trade.

 

[Dreakon13]

yes I Get there was other pieces mentioned...mostly hypothetical because we didn't draft them...could very well be adding eric conrell x3 to that list if we were drafting. Yes I'd take the 3 bonafied NHler players vs Grigorenko and a grab bag of meh.

Lets face facts none of these deals actually put us behind. I'll support Compher because I think hes a player and will give you that. Zads will be unprotected in the expansion draft and hasn't taken the step forward worthy of batting an eye at yet. Move the hell on. We gave up nothing and got basically nothing without expanding the ROR trade.

You can't expect to surround those 3 bonafied NHL players with cheap, quality talent when you sell the farm (both in terms of prospects and picks) to get them. You want a mix of both proven and unproven... Murray went too far in one direction, put all his eggs in the basket of a handful of proven NHLer's to lead the room, and it blew up on him.

So far, Botteril is arguably playing it too safe in the other direction... but that may very well be what the franchise needs if he can balance things out after the placeholder vets, who have been helping keep Rochester a stable and notably better place to develop prospects, are gone and the kids start graduating in greater numbers. Or maybe he'll ultimately end up relying on the wrong players too, and that may blow up on him.

People have a tendency to focus on the Sobotka's and the Hunwick's and the Pominville's and miss the forest for the trees. It's not about them, they've always just been warm bodies until their contracts are done and players like Olofsson, Asplund, Jokiharju, Borgen can bring a year or more of NA pro experience up with them.

 

[OkimLom]

You can't expect to surround those 3 bonafied NHL players with cheap, quality talent when you sell the farm (both in terms of prospects and picks) to get them. You want a mix of both proven and unproven... Murray went too far in one direction, put all his eggs in the basket of a handful of proven NHLer's to lead the room, and it blew up on him.

So far, Botteril is arguably playing it too safe in the other direction... but that may very well be what the franchise needs if he can balance things out after the placeholder vets, who have been helping keep Rochester a stable and notably better place to develop prospects, are gone and the kids start graduating in greater numbers. Or maybe he'll ultimately end up relying on the wrong players too, and that may blow up on him.

People have a tendency to focus on the Sobotka's and the Hunwick's and the Pominville's and miss the forest for the trees. It's not about them, they've always just been warm bodies until their contracts are done and players like Olofsson, Asplund, Jokiharju, Borgen can bring a year or more of NA pro experience up with them.

Using the development of prospects as the excuse of waiting to be competitive is a cop out. Any competent GM is capable of building a competitive team while your players are developing. Hell, that's exactly what you want. You don't need Olofsson, Asplund, Borgen, and others to be fully developed, or developed to the point to be NHL contributors, to have a competitive team. You have them to replenish your roster to continue your timeline.