Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[Buffaloed]

He's so hard to listen to.

He's so inspiring. His passion for winning is palpable when he uses words like situation and scenario. It gives me goosebumps and makes me want to drive my car into a bridge abutment.

 

[Zman5778]

Oskari 1+1 in todays Liiga game

With every report on this guy, I can't help but think "OK, Botts absolutely hit this one out of the park. Some NHL scouts didn't know who he was......he got roasted for taking him in the 3rd.....and it's really looking like we've got an NHL player here"

 

[Moskau]

With every report on this guy, I can't help but think "OK, Botts absolutely hit this one out of the park. Some NHL scouts didn't know who he was......he got roasted for taking him in the 3rd.....and it's really looking like we've got an NHL player here"

Good on Botteril for listening to his scouts but I can almost guarantee he never watched Laaksonen play a single game before drafting him. So he didn't really hit it out of the park. His scouts did. Who he turned around and fired weeks later.

 

[Deleted member 27798]

Good on Botteril for listening to his scouts but I can almost guarantee he never watched Laaksonen play a single game before drafting him. So he didn't really hit it out of the park. His scouts did. Who he turned around and fired weeks later.

No one has hit it out of the park....yet. Let’s see him come to North America and play against AHL competition before crowning him a draft day steal.

While there was a huge jump in his play from rookie camp 2018 to rookie camp 2019, I still think he has a long way to go.

 

[Dex]

Good on Botteril for listening to his scouts but I can almost guarantee he never watched Laaksonen play a single game before drafting him. So he didn't really hit it out of the park. His scouts did. Who he turned around and fired weeks later.

I looked through the first six pages upthread to see what I could glean relative to the pick and the scouts responsible and two names were prominent - Jeff Crisp and Teemu Numminen. Turns out both are still with the Sabres so whatever axe fell did not strike them.

It's looking like a strong pick at this point. Botteril was the GM at the time - and he listened to his scouts - apparently Crisp and Numminen. He will get the blame if a pick fails and he must get the credit if there is success - especially given the circumstances. He was just hired, likely never saw Laaksonen, trusted scouts with whom he had marginal familiarity. My interim grade - home run

 

[dang111]

If we miss on a pick it’s Botts fault. If we hit on a pick it’s because of the scouts.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

No one has hit it out of the park....yet. Let’s see him come to North America and play against AHL competition before crowning him a draft day steal.

Yep.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If we miss on a pick it’s Botts fault. If we hit on a pick it’s because of the scouts.

I completely reject the idea that because Botterill was new to Buffalo, that all he did was listen to Buffalo scouting work for his draft decisions. He did his homework as AGM in Pittsburgh. Pretty sure he took notes on draft prospects, and didn't forget to take them with him when he took the Buffalo job.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Drafting is a scouting dept effort, mostly collaborative, with an ultimate responsibility falling on the GM to make or not make a pick. When anyone makes the comment, "I love/hate (insert GM name here) pick in that draft..." they really just mean the team scouting dept's work and GM's ultimate approval of the pick. We don't need to split hairs about whether the GM personally promoted that player or not. It's useless and beside-the-point.

 

[pigpen65]

He was just hired, likely never saw Laaksonen, trusted scouts with whom he had marginal familiarity. My interim grade - home run

He was an assistant GM before he came to Buffalo. The likelihood of him seeing a player play before / after his hiring more than likely didn't change.

 

[Dex]

He was an assistant GM before he came to Buffalo. The likelihood of him seeing a player play before / after his hiring more than likely didn't change.

Of course he was an AGM. And of course he was prepping for the draft as it was his job. But Laaksonen appears to have been a player that was flying completely under the radar. He was not mentioned by by any of the big scouting groups. The likelihood that Botts never saw him play is high.

From this article: http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-gm-jason-botterill-stays-patient-nhl-draft/

Botteril said the Sabres' European scouts "want to stand up and get players in the organization"

We felt they sort of won us over from the standpoint of "Hey, this is a player we need to stand up and select" Botteril said of Laaksonen
​

Seems pretty clear that the European scouts had a big say in the pick

Interesting comments on the video within this piece:

Botterill recaps a 'balanced' Draft, looks ahead to free agency

Botts does not sound like a guy who had any familiarity with the player and he clearly relied on the scouts in both the Davidsson and Laaksonen picks

 

[gallagt01]

With every report on this guy, I can't help but think "OK, Botts absolutely hit this one out of the park. Some NHL scouts didn't know who he was......he got roasted for taking him in the 3rd.....and it's really looking like we've got an NHL player here"

Good on Botteril for listening to his scouts but I can almost guarantee he never watched Laaksonen play a single game before drafting him. So he didn't really hit it out of the park. His scouts did. Who he turned around and fired weeks later.

Of course he was an AGM. And of course he was prepping for the draft as it was his job. But Laaksonen appears to have been a player that was flying completely under the radar. He was not mentioned by by any of the big scouting groups. The likelihood that Botts never saw him play is high.

From this article: http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-gm-jason-botterill-stays-patient-nhl-draft/

Botteril said the Sabres' European scouts "want to stand up and get players in the organization"

We felt they sort of won us over from the standpoint of "Hey, this is a player we need to stand up and select" Botteril said of Laaksonen
​

Seems pretty clear that the European scouts had a big say in the pick

Interesting comments on the video within this piece:

Botterill recaps a 'balanced' Draft, looks ahead to free agency

Botts does not sound like a guy who had any familiarity with the player and he clearly relied on the scouts in both the Davidsson and Laaksonen picks

I could be wrong, but wasn't there quite a bit of chatter after that draft that Pittsburgh was also hot after Laaksonen in '17?

Having worked for Pittsburgh just months prior, Botteril would have either way been deferring to a scouting staff. But discrediting him seems silly when GMs generally defer to reports put together by their scouting staffs when selecting players in drafts.

 

[Chainshot]

I could be wrong, but wasn't there quite a bit of chatter after that draft that Pittsburgh was also hot after Laaksonen in '17?

Having worked for Pittsburgh just months prior, Botteril would have either way been deferring to a scouting staff. But discrediting him seems silly when GMs generally defer to reports put together by their scouting staffs when selecting players in drafts.

None that was reported. This was Teemu Numminen’s doing.

 

[Buffaloed]

Of course he was an AGM. And of course he was prepping for the draft as it was his job. But Laaksonen appears to have been a player that was flying completely under the radar.
From this article: http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-gm-jason-botterill-stays-patient-nhl-draft/

Botteril said the Sabres' European scouts "want to stand up and get players in the organization"

We felt they sort of won us over from the standpoint of "Hey, this is a player we need to stand up and select" Botteril said of Laaksonen
​

Seems pretty clear that the European scouts had a big say in the pick

Interesting comments on the video within this piece:

Botterill recaps a 'balanced' Draft, looks ahead to free agency

Botts does not sound like a guy who had any familiarity with the player and he clearly relied on the scouts in both the Davidsson and Laaksonen picks

From the 2nd article you cited
Botterill recaps a 'balanced' Draft, looks ahead to free agency
Laaksonen may be the more unknown of the two, at least to the public. But the Finnish defenseman isn't an unknown in League circles, according to head amateur scout Jeff Crisp, and the Sabres' scouting department thought highly of his potential.
He wasn't flying completely under the radar.

From: Meet Oskari Laaksonen, Buffalo's 3rd-round pick
Laaksonen said that Buffalo flew him in following the NHL Scouting Combine in June with a group of other prospects (Jacob Bryson, another under-the-radar puck moving defenseman who the Sabres would take in the fourth round, was among them), so he knew the Sabres were interested.
Botts did his due diligence and didn't rely totally on the scouts. But the scouts deserve the credit. Without them it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Chainshot]

I will say this, I like that in his first draft he was willing to take a pic at that position and turn it over to his staff and they hit on it. Whether or not he himself knew about this player and had a hand in the selection, even if it seems like he didn’t from the commentary, isn’t nearly as interesting as his trust in members of his staff.

Coming back around to Oskari, I can’t wait to have the opportunity to actually sit and watch him play again.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I must say, I feel utter disappointment watching this team knowing Botterill is at the helm. We have two of the most talented players we've had in decades in Dahlin and Eichel, and I cant shake the feeling that we're only going to tread watercwith the buffoon at the top making moves.

I'd love to be proven wrong, and become a Botterill apologist. Lord knows I'm not an expert with this stuff, but f***, I dont see any glamour coming from this season.

 

[sabremike]

I must say, I feel utter disappointment watching this team knowing Botterill is at the helm. We have two of the most talented players we've had in decades in Dahlin and Eichel, and I cant shake the feeling that we're only going to tread watercwith the buffoon at the top making moves.

I'd love to be proven wrong, and become a Botterill apologist. Lord knows I'm not an expert with this stuff, but ****, I dont see any glamour coming from this season.

The amazing thing is that he has to know if this team bombs he will be sacked the minute the whistle blows on game 82, and THIS was the best he could do this offseason: rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

The amazing thing is that he has to know if this team bombs he will be sacked the minute the whistle blows on game 82, and THIS was the best he could do this offseason: rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic?

Botts wont get canned if this team bombs. Its not happening. Botts is here long term you can bank on that.

Also you consider bringing in Miller, Montour, Jokiharu, Vesey and Johansson rearranging deck chairs?

We are a better team.

 

[Zip15]

Botts wont get canned if this team bombs. Its not happening. Botts is here long term you can bank on that.

Also you consider bringing in Miller, Montour, Jokiharu, Vesey and Johansson rearranging deck chairs?

We are a better team.

You think he’s still here if they don’t hit 75 points?

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Botts wont get canned if this team bombs. Its not happening. Botts is here long term you can bank on that.

Also you consider bringing in Miller, Montour, Jokiharu, Vesey and Johansson rearranging deck chairs?

We are a better team.

Quite a few of them do.

Olofsson and Pilut aren't registering with some either.

That is 1, probably 2 top-6 players and half of an entire defensive core.

 

[BuzzKillington90]

You think he’s still here if they don’t hit 75 points?

I expect him to be if that was the case. I’m not saying I agree... but think that Pegula has felt he was to trigger happy before. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was.

That being said I don’t think we’re in for a season that bad, probably not great; but better then 75

 

[Paxon]

Quite a few of them do.

Olofsson and Pilut aren't registering with some either.

That is 1, probably 2 top-6 players and half of an entire defensive core.

Olofsson was drafted in 2014, which was Murray's first draft.

 

[Fezzy126]

Olofsson was drafted in 2014, which was Murray's first draft.

Yup, timelines with GM prospects/drafts always get confused.

But I will say one thing, if we're going to fault previous GM's for the development structure that they put in place and 'ruining' certain prospects, then some credit needs to go to Botts for guys like VO, since his development structure seems to have produced a really nice player.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Yup, timelines with GM prospects/drafts always get confused.

But I will say one thing, if we're going to fault previous GM's for the development structure that they put in place and 'ruining' certain prospects, then some credit needs to go to Botts for guys like VO, since his development structure seems to have produced a really nice player.

Which doesn't offset all the development setbacks under the awful coach he hired. Botts is still unproven in every category, year 3 will be a big one.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

2C is going to be Jason's end. Last night Krueger was talking up Mojo for 2C a player who has repeatedly said it's not his best position. Unforgivable and stubborn.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

You think he’s still here if they don’t hit 75 points?

I think Botts is here long term. I am not going to guess points vs firing.

Its the impression that I get after the past 5 years of a mess.