Jason Botterill Discussion 2

[Montag DP]

So damning.

 

[TehDoak]

There's plenty of red meat to criticize GMJB about.

If you want to talk about how NO ONE in the org recognized what he described as a pretty obvious drinking issue, especially when they are on the road together 40+ games a year, OK, we can have that discussion.

But, after the year he had on the ice, not a single team would have paid the 4M QO to Lehner.

This wasn't like we terminated his contract. He wasn't playing starting goalie caliber hockey. We could have qualified him at 4M per or walked away. Walking away was the right choice, for all involved.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This is why I @#$%ing hate this board right now. Every last angle is used to grind every last axe no matter how far the angle is turned and twisted. I mean FCS...Lehner was HORRIBLE last season. It took a major attitude adjustment, dealing with alcohol abuse, and then landing behind a new team and HC that went all-in on committing to a defensive, goalie friendly scheme for Lehner to end up where he is (on a 1 yr "prove it" contract for 1.5 mil). Buffalo could be spending 4 mil on him right now, and nobody would even know if he was worth it because his stats wouldn't be anywhere near what they are right now.

I liked Lehner (sober) and thought he could be better, but no friggin way should he have been kept on at 4 mil. At least Lehner owned up to his alcohol abuse and tried to change his ways.

 

[enthusiast]

put carter hutton on the island under barry trotz and he'll look like a top-10 starter

 

[enthusiast]

that said if the team ignored his alcoholism and just passed him on to be someone else's problem they deserve to have his success rubbed in their collective face

 

[HaNotsri]

Buffalo is not a good fit for players with mental issues.
I’d try to add players that are as low maintenance as possible.

 

[1972]

Lehner is a Vezina finalist...

Good job Botts

Please. You are being ridiculous here.

 

[EichHart]

that said if the team ignored his alcoholism and just passed him on to be someone else's problem they deserve to have his success rubbed in their collective face

In lehners interview he made it clear Buffalo helped him out immensely. So that obviously isn’t true.

 

[GellMann]

Lehner was never going to be a Vezina goalie here. Part of his healing was being away from here, and what he described as an endless cloud of negativity.

If I could go back in time knowing what happened to Robin, I'd still let him go, because it would be cruel to not let a person overcome their demons and succeed. And he wasn't going to do what he's doing with Trotz and the Islanders here with Risto, Bogo, McCabe, Dahlin's hand grenades, and Phil.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

We are now getting Lehner apologists? Buahahaha.

Guy literally went 0 for in shootouts. But that surely was the team in front of him causing that.

 

[slip]

Is this version of Lehner worth a late 1st round pick? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Royisgone]

We are now getting Lehner apologists? Buahahaha.

Guy literally went 0 for in shootouts. But that surely was the team in front of him causing that.

The guy is brutal. His fundamentals are not solid and he will continue to be up and down, just like most goalies are. I have no problem in moving on from him, just like I wouldn't mind moving on from both of our goalies now! None of them are anything special.

 

[The Red Helmet]

George McPhee immediately re-signs pending free agents after he trades for them, like Pacioretty and Stone. Botterill waits until the price inevitably goes up, as it does every off- season and now will have to pay top dollar or lose Skinner. Either way he looks foolish.

If Botterill were a good GM, after trading away Kane and ROR, he would have signed Skinner immediately after trading for him. He could of locked him up for what Kane got in San Jose or less. It is almost as bad as passing on the 5 year $25 million offer Briere wanted to sign during the season with the Sabres his final season here.

Maybe the worst part is if you keep Skinner, you are going to have to pay Reinhart more than what you give Skinner because he is a better player than Skinner right now and the gap will only widen these next two seasons. That bridge deal is another failure of someone who appears to be as ready for the GM role as Housley was for the role of head coach.

 

[GellMann]

I'm not going to blame Jason for the Amerks series, which isn't over yet, for sure. But that was the one thing everyone could hang their hat on with him.

And yet, Tim's Amerks could get swept in the first round too....

 

[TehDoak]

Buffalo is not a good fit for players with mental issues.
I’d try to add players that are as low maintenance as possible.

No professional sport locker room is a good place for players with mental health issues, regardless of city.

Lehner's (Or even O'Reilly's) issues was not a Buffalo issue.

It's a slippery slope when a team can intervene and suggest a player/employee seek help for mental issues. Typically all they can do is support the player/employee when they decide to seek it, which Buffalo did.

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm not going to blame Jason for the Amerks series, which isn't over yet, for sure. But that was the one thing everyone could hang their hat on with him.

And yet, Tim's Amerks could get swept in the first round too....

To be fair, from what I've seen and heard... outside of a period or two, it seems like the Amerks are outplaying the Marlies. In Sabres-esque fashion though, they're holding the sticks too tight and missing open nets or hitting posts. The big guys aren't coming through, but it's also their first NA pro playoff series for a lot of them. And they aren't getting any help goaltending-wise either.

Yeah, yeah, excuses, talk is cheap, results are what matter, etc. But unlike last time the team isn't necessarily getting walked over. As sick as it'd make me if they got swept in round 1 again, there is still good to take away from it IMO.

 

[Chainshot]

To be fair, from what I've seen and heard... outside of a period or two, it seems like the Amerks are outplaying the Marlies. In Sabres-esque fashion though, they're holding the sticks too tight and missing open nets or hitting posts. The big guys aren't coming through, but it's also their first NA pro playoff series for a lot of them. And they aren't getting any help goaltending-wise either.

Yeah, yeah, excuses, talk is cheap, results are what matter, etc. But unlike last time the team isn't necessarily getting walked over. As sick as it'd make me if they got swept in round 1 again, there is still good to take away from it IMO.

Wedgewood hasn’t been good either. He struggled down the stretch and while people pile on ‘27 for his takes on Amerk things, he and others pointed out that Wedgewood was not a good choice as the #3.

Then there is the erroneous assumption that Mittelstadt would get invited to the WCs like last season so they didn’t make the paper transaction at the deadline to have him in Rochester for the playoffs. Dovetail with the mangling again of one of the Amerks key defensemen by Botts coaching hire (Pilut has had the same dip in play that Guhle did last season after starting strong and being befuddled after Phil worked with him).

If the only thing one can hang Bott’s hat upon is making the Amerks competitive, folding up in consecutive playoff series would not indicate that happened. Hopefully for all of us they will bounce back but any win-or-go-home 0-for the series hole is a tough order.

 

[Aladyyn]

Meh, getting PDO'd can happen to anyone.

 

[joshjull]

Is this version of Lehner worth a late 1st round pick? Inquiring minds want to know.

Does that pick also get you a mental health professional, substance abuse counselor, Trotz as head coach with his system and Korn as the goalie coach? Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Can’t wait to hear him blame a first round sweep on various situations and scenarios.

 

[debaser66]

Wedgewood hasn’t been good either. He struggled down the stretch and while people pile on ‘27 for his takes on Amerk things, he and others pointed out that Wedgewood was not a good choice as the #3.

Then there is the erroneous assumption that Mittelstadt would get invited to the WCs like last season so they didn’t make the paper transaction at the deadline to have him in Rochester for the playoffs. Dovetail with the mangling again of one of the Amerks key defensemen by Botts coaching hire (Pilut has had the same dip in play that Guhle did last season after starting strong and being befuddled after Phil worked with him).

If the only thing one can hang Bott’s hat upon is making the Amerks competitive, folding up in consecutive playoff series would not indicate that happened. Hopefully for all of us they will bounce back but any win-or-go-home 0-for the series hole is a tough order.

Why should Botterill think he gets invited after his underhelming season.
Some here thought so too.
I am glad he has to earn something not having a spot handed like on the Sabres.

 

[GellMann]

To be fair, from what I've seen and heard... outside of a period or two, it seems like the Amerks are outplaying the Marlies. In Sabres-esque fashion though, they're holding the sticks too tight and missing open nets or hitting posts. The big guys aren't coming through, but it's also their first NA pro playoff series for a lot of them. And they aren't getting any help goaltending-wise either.

Yeah, yeah, excuses, talk is cheap, results are what matter, etc. But unlike last time the team isn't necessarily getting walked over. As sick as it'd make me if they got swept in round 1 again, there is still good to take away from it IMO.

Which is why it's not an ax I'd wield against him. But I just don't know what I'd say if the one thing everyone could point to actually couldn't get over the same hump that the last guy had trouble with. We certainly couldn't point to the 2C position or the NHL standings instead.

 

[Chainshot]

Why should Botterill think he gets invited after his underhelming season.
Some here thought so too.
I am glad he has to earn something not having a spot handed like on the Sabres.

When he said it at the trade deadline, the follow-up from anybody worth their salt should’ve been questioning if he felt Casey’s season deserved such an invitation. But we didn’t get that… It’s remarkable that his rookie season in the NHL resembled so much of his freshman season at the University of Minnesota. There was a great deal of similarity.

 

[slip]

Can’t wait to hear him blame a first round sweep on various situations and scenarios.

So much for the "win the Calder, then win the Stanley" approach to building a successful NHL franchise.

 

[sabremike]

Wedgewood hasn’t been good either. He struggled down the stretch and while people pile on ‘27 for his takes on Amerk things, he and others pointed out that Wedgewood was not a good choice as the #3.

Then there is the erroneous assumption that Mittelstadt would get invited to the WCs like last season so they didn’t make the paper transaction at the deadline to have him in Rochester for the playoffs. Dovetail with the mangling again of one of the Amerks key defensemen by Botts coaching hire (Pilut has had the same dip in play that Guhle did last season after starting strong and being befuddled after Phil worked with him).

If the only thing one can hang Bott’s hat upon is making the Amerks competitive, folding up in consecutive playoff series would not indicate that happened. Hopefully for all of us they will bounce back but any win-or-go-home 0-for the series hole is a tough order.

The idea that Botts assumed Casey was a lock for the Worlds is possibly the most scary sign yet that his ability to judge players and correctly assess a situation is beyond terrible and that he's in way over his head. Like, how could any rational person think that a player who most nights looked like he didn't even belong in the league and was built like a 14 year old boy was a lock for a major international tournament? His thinking was completely insane.