Confirmed with Link: James "Stealth Tumor" Neal traded for Jesus Hornqvist, Nick Spaling - Part 2

[penguins2946*]

If this deal would have been Hornqvist, Spaling and Nashville's 2nd round pick, I don't think as many people here would be complaining. I like the players we got, but I just wanted something else in terms of picks or prospects.

 

[Michael8771*]

Well, that's a step up from dealing Sid instead of Neal, I will give you that.

Why not Letang? The stroke would've made him a pure dump on a team where your top six on opening night would've been Martin, Scuderi, Despres (if signed), Dumoulin, and I guess Harrington and Sammy.

I don't think you get the equivalent to Letang of Hornqvist to Neal right now. And, for as much as you say 'plenty of PMD's', with Maatta and Pouliot (even if he'd been ready from day one) out, there really aren't. Not if you're being honest.

There's a lot more in the way of defensive depth on this team then there is at wing. And again you could pick up a defensemen in free agency. But at least you're not giving up a player like Neal who's clearly far and away our best player in that position.

Martin had a better year than Letang did (when he played), I could say the same for Maatta and Nisky. So again it's still a position of Strength. Regardless of the stroke, he's still a commodity that would command significant assets coming back. And it's not as if Maatta won't be back. I think we can stay afloat until he's back in the fray. And if need be we could add a depth defender. I think Despres will be just fine as well. The cupboard isn't bare.

 

[AvsRobin]

So, why exactly was this a bad trade for us then?

If Horny can score 30 in Nashville, then I think he can score 30 with Sid or Geno.

Is Neal going to score 30 in Nashville just because he scored 40 with Geno?

As I keep saying, in Nashville, in that division, with those centers, you have to work for everything. It's not like you're on a line with Sid or Geno, in a **** division, where you're gifted a lot of goals.

People will see all of that soon enough.

Horny is a favourite of mine cause I've watched him since he was a kid. But I think Preds got the best player in the deal.

 

[penguins2946*]

All that matters is that I hope when JR said this move opens up cap space, he meant that he's going to trade Dupuis and replace him with Spaling. Or better yet, just shoot Scuderi into the sun.

 

[KIRK]

After sleeping on it, I'm less annoyed by this trade. This is a good trade if you assume Neal really is the one dimensional scorer that he was the second half of last year. Hornqvist is a better player than that version of Neal. Even if he scores 10 less goals than Neal would have in the regular season, Hornqvist is going to help us win playoff games more than that version of Neal.

But Neal has shown flashes of the player he can be, and that version of Neal is significantly better than Hornqvist. If Neal never figures out how to be fully engaged on both ends of the ice, then this trade will look good. If Neal continues to play like he has the majority of the last two years, then this trade will make us a better team when the games actually matter.

Regardless, Hornqvist is a right handed goal scorer. We need that. Is there a chance Neal figures things out and becomes a dominant winger? Yes. But I think there's also a chance Hornqvist blows up with Sid and Geno too. Overall, his stats are right about on par with Neal's in Dallas. Its not out of the question to think Hornqvist could come in and blow up just like Neal did.

Oh, absolutely, if Neal figures it out, then we do lose this one.

Or, if it turns out that we could've trusted Neal to be with the program of the new regime (something you'll never know but couldn't risk if you were wrong), then we do lose this one.

Thing is, I don't know that it was worth risking. The deal made for him, like the pick of Kapanen . . . lower reward, lower risk.

On a team with Sid and Geno, where assets have been mismanaged horribly the last few years and where a GM refusing to voluntarily move a roster player of significance unless he wins the deal led to stagnation, maybe lower risk/lower reward change, while imperfect, is the least imperfect alternative.

 

[KIRK]

There's a lot more in the way of defensive depth on this team then there is at wing. And again you could pick up a defensemen in free agency. But at least you're not giving up a player like Neal who's clearly far and away our best player in that position.

Martin had a better year than Letang did (when he played), I could say the same for Maatta and Nisky. So again it's still a position of Strength. Regardless of the stroke, he's still a commodity that would command significant assets coming back. And it's not as if Maatta won't be back. I think we can stay afloat until he's back in the fray. And if need be we could add a depth defender. I think Despres will be just fine as well. The cupboard isn't bare.

You sure?

You sure Despres resigning is a done deal, and that the coaching change will be a panacea?

You sure Maatta comes back in November 100%.

Man, I wish I could go through life with that kind of certainty.

 

[brewski420]

You yourself admitted we likely could have gotten more, yes? Also, you act as if Neal was a rotten apple that ruined the locker room. Are you sure about that? I know for a fact there were many team mates who liked the guy. I don't think he was this huge distraction as you suggest.

In any case he was a significant asset. And I don't believe we got enough back to warrant this move. We obviously value him differently. And whether you like the guy as a person or not, the question is does he help the team more or hurt it? I'd say he does the former. And just because he may not get along with everyone, that doesn't mean he's ruining the team or the overall chemistry. There's other players who shoulder that responsibility themselves. And relative to their skillset and contributions, their cap hit isn't as friendly. Nor are they playing in an area of weakness (wing). So what do we do? We make Neal a skape goat and TAKE OUR BEST PLAYER AT THAT POSITION and trade him. It's nonsensical when there were other players who have very similar issues.

What we do know about Neal is that he at times, sometimes the worst times, be very selfish by taking very stupid and sometimes dangerous plays/penalties. We know he very rarely if ever scored a 'dirty' goal by crashing or screening the goalie. It seems from most of what I have heard about Hornquist from people who have watched him on a daily basis is he is a high character guy who plays hard and does the dirty work that the Pens lack or have very little of. I will watch how this plays out before making a final judgement but it seems like, the day after, that this trade was as much about character as anything else. Maybe other teams were/are wary about Neal and his selfish side and this was the best to be had.

If this is the case than the sooner a trade of Neal is made the better IMO.

 

[KIRK]

If this deal would have been Hornqvist, Spaling and Nashville's 2nd round pick, I don't think as many people here would be complaining. I like the players we got, but I just wanted something else in terms of picks or prospects.

Do you nix the deal for the 2nd?

It's one thing to say 'we could've gotten more' and leave it at that.

It's another to act like the sky is falling because we missed out on a pick that, if he contributes, wouldn't do so until likely after Sid's 30th birthday.

 

[KIRK]

Horny is a favourite of mine cause I've watched him since he was a kid. But I think Preds got the best player in the deal.

In a bubble, sure.

But, Sid and Geno versus Fischer and whoever isn't a bubble, as Nashville is going to discover.

 

[Michael8771*]

You sure?

You sure Despres resigning is a done deal, and that the coaching change will be a panacea?

You sure Maatta comes back in November 100%.

Man, I wish I could go through life with that kind of certainty.

I'm far more certain that trading Letang would be less cumbersome to the overall team than losing Neal. In regards to Despres and Maatta, I feel sure we'll find a way to stay afloat. Barring a major injury of course.

 

[DegenX]

James Neal, locker room cancer ...

Despite it being reported by a poster who interned with the team that Geno and Neal were very close. And photographic evidence of Neal with several different team members during the off season and the Olympic break. Because I know that I want to spend my free time with someone I don't get along with.

Whatever.

I still don't like this trade. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul ... Not saying that Hornqvist doesn't bring a skill set that the team needs, but it also needs what Neal brings. And we're still short a top six winger. Except now it's Geno's line that has the holes on it.

I still think the value is poor. Spaling as the add in? How does he improve this team? I hope the plan isn't to now trade Sutter.

There are certainly some legit complaints in regards to Neal's performance over the last season or so, but he also showed that he was capable of much more. In fact, he was a much more complete player when he first arrived ... and then Bylsma. I still think the better option would have been to hold on to Neal and see how he responded with a new coach/system.

What's done is done. Not happy with it, but I can only hope it works out for the best in the end. Still waiting until the end of next season to make any real judgement, but I'm starting to have some concerns.

 

[Michael8771*]

What we do know about Neal is that he at times, sometimes the worst times, be very selfish by taking very stupid and sometimes dangerous plays/penalties. We know he very rarely if ever scored a 'dirty' goal by crashing or screening the goalie. It seems from most of what I have heard about Hornquist from people who have watched him on a daily basis is he is a high character guy who plays hard and does the dirty work that the Pens lack or have very little of. I will watch how this plays out before making a final judgement but it seems like, the day after, that this trade was as much about character as anything else. Maybe other teams were/are wary about Neal and his selfish side and this was the best to be had.

If this is the case than the sooner a trade of Neal is made the better IMO.

I can tell you this, if Neal's character is on trial, THEN THERE COULD BE A TRIAL for quite a number of players here. You think Letang's a bed of roses? MAF?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

We downgraded our top 6 with this deal. And we could have gotten better bottom 6 players than Spaling in the FA market for sure. Spaling is also lacking the toughness we were supposedly looking for in our bottom 6.

This trade looks like a loss for us right now, my head is spinning...

 

[penguins2946*]

Do you nix the deal for the 2nd?

It's one thing to say 'we could've gotten more' and leave it at that.

It's another to act like the sky is falling because we missed out on a pick that, if he contributes, wouldn't do so until likely after Sid's 30th birthday.

That was my point. Regardless of what plus we got, it was going to be Spaling and Hornqvist in the NHL next year. I'm not going to fret over a draft pick that has like a 20% chance of becoming an NHL regular. It would have been nice, but it's not a big deal.

 

[brewski420]

I'm far more certain that trading Letang would be less cumbersome to the overall team than losing Neal. In regards to Despres and Maatta, I feel sure we'll find a way to stay afloat. Barring a major injury of course.

Strongly disagree about Letang v. Neal but I think you are more talking about contract than player, at least I hope. If you are just talking about players value to the team, money aside, than no way IMO.

 

[KIRK]

That was my point. Regardless of what plus we got, it was going to be Spaling and Hornqvist in the NHL next year. I'm not going to fret over a draft pick that has like a 20% chance of becoming an NHL regular. It would have been nice, but it's not a big deal.

That's why I mention the Staal trade.

As I remember, speculation was that the Rangers offered Gaborik and a small piece for Staal.

Now, that package isn't as good as Sutter, Dumoulin, and Pouliot, or so I was told.

Thing is, how many more years will it be before that's confirmed for me.

And, that Staal deal happened when Geno was 25. He's closer to 30 now than 25.

Could a better deal, like Carolina's deal for Staal was better, have been out there? Sure.

Was it necessarily worth waiting a minimum of 3-4 years more of Sid's and Geno's prime to find out? I don't think so.

Yeah, we're on the same page. Lament that there could've been more. Don't cry like we just sold Jagr or Kovalev.

 

[Michael8771*]

Strongly disagree about Letang v. Neal but I think you are more talking about contract than player, at least I hope. If you are just talking about players value to the team, money aside, than no way IMO.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree. But I think we are far better off on our blue line without Letang than we will be at wing without Neal. We did ok without Letang last year. Well, until the number of injuries became rather ridiculous.

 

[brewski420]

I can tell you this, if Neal's character is on trial, THEN THERE COULD BE A TRIAL for quite a number of players here. You think Letang's a bed of roses? MAF?

I am just laying out a scenario that tries to explain the trade given the reports of other teams interest in Neal (maybe as many as 15). I am not sure where you come up with character regarding Letang or Fleury though??

 

[Terrapin]

So, we lack size, grit, and wingers capable of scoring. What does this idiot do? Trade a 6'2" 40 goal scorer with a mean streak for two scrubs that are softer than melted butter. Sweet. I'd rather see Craig ****ing Adams in the lineup over Spaling. This organization has become a laughing stock

 

[Woodrow]

Could we have gotten more for Neal?? Maybe

I think Neals value was lower than expected because everyone sees the same thing we do. He is a one dimensional goal scorer who will score less when he doesn't have a superstar center. GMs aren't going to overpay for that.

 

[Michael8771*]

I am just laying out a scenario that tries to explain the trade given the reports of other teams interest in Neal (maybe as many as 15). I am not sure where you come up with character regarding Letang or Fleury though??

I just don't see those two, as well as a few others be pristine while Neal is the brat of the group. It's really not that way. I know a couple people (one in particular) who deals with the players regularly. I've met certain players through mutual friends and such myself. Truthfully, I never had an issue with anyone there. But then again those were charity events, a dinner or a golf outing.

All I'm saying is, if it's a matter of character, he shouldn't be first on the list to go.

 

[The Tang]

That was my point. Regardless of what plus we got, it was going to be Spaling and Hornqvist in the NHL next year. I'm not going to fret over a draft pick that has like a 20% chance of becoming an NHL regular. It would have been nice, but it's not a big deal.

You could have flipped the pick though rather than drafting. Given the significant needs of this team you could have dealt it for a bottom six (even if overpaying) or packaged it. Sure the pick may not pan out but you also may get a saad there. Its really not a throw away because it has perceived value to other teams

 

[wej20]

So, we lack size, grit, and wingers capable of scoring. What does this idiot do? Trade a 6'2" 40 goal scorer with a mean streak for two scrubs that are softer than melted butter. Sweet. I'd rather see Craig ****ing Adams in the lineup over Spaling. This organization has become a laughing stock

Hornqvist isn't soft, I don't see many people queing up to try and tip in Weber slapshots. Neal has size but doesn't use it that ofen.

 

[Terrapin]

Could we have gotten more for Neal?? Maybe

I think Neals value was lower than expected because everyone sees the same thing we do. He is a one dimensional goal scorer who will score less when he doesn't have a superstar center. GMs aren't going to overpay for that.

For a team that has a serious deficiency in goal scoring wingers, his value to us should have been sky high. We literally had Brian Gibbons on the top line in the playoffs. So trading your one legitimate goal scoring winger is about the dumbest thing possible, especially when you get back 2 guys that are downgrades from Pascal Dupuis and Craig Adams.

 

[brewski420]

I just don't see those two, as well as a few others be pristine while Neal is the brat of the group. It's really not that way. I know a couple people (one in particular) who deals with the players regularly. I've met certain players through mutual friends and such myself. Truthfully, I never had an issue with anyone there. But then again those were charity events, a dinner or a golf outing.

All I'm saying is, if it's a matter of character, he shouldn't be first on the list to go.

The point I was making was more in reference to the on ice behavior, which is all I have to go on, by Neal taking stupid penalties with some resulting in suspensions. I lost a ton of respect for him when he pulled the knee to the head stunt. That was beyond selfish it was reckless. The reports of locker room stuff really don't mean anything to me because we never will really know the truth.