Confirmed with Link: James "Stealth Tumor" Neal traded for Jesus Hornqvist, Nick Spaling - Part 2

[Tumty]

Only good thing i see is that he has RH shot. But does JR think Kunitz will be our scorer now? ****

 

[Tender Rip]

Strange, in the playoffs, even Jokinen knew how to leech properly. Maybe Neal was the problem for the Malkin-Jokinen combo.

Please....

Jokinen had open nets and flat out got hit by the puck for two of his goals, most of which came on the PP or with Sutter. He was otherwise the board battle losing, non-physical player who created zilch for Geno, including room, that he was all regular season, and to re-write your own understanding of the dynamics of that line TOTALLY because of these playoffs/a sudden Neal dislike and/or because Neal was just traded... that makes no sense.

Malkin & Neal with a genuine third wheel and a coach who will stop the nonsense of stretchpassing/dump & chase to instead play a puck possession game that benefits Geno and Neal... I find it pretty difficult to see how the likely resulting offense from Neal in such a situation is being replaced with what we got here.

As much as I like Hornqvist and find him VERY useful, there is so much rationalization going on here from some of you.

Worst yet I think from Stardog, who includes Spalling as a player who like PH provides exactly the qualities we are short on (paraphrasing). I mean seriously.... even Nashville fans who love him think him a dime a dozen player. Spalling as a winger is a clearly inferior player to Stempniak and as a C we have no need for him whatsoever. He got major minutes on Nashville because they had the worst group of forwards in the league, and he would have been a 4th liner on our playoff team for sure.
Nothing against him, but I doubt he will add significantly more as a third line winger next year than playing Megna full time, and if we want to have some player from outside doing that, I would certainly prefer more of a bruiser to complement what we have. None of these guys are tough/intimidating at all. Hornqvist takes punishment like a champ, great, but he hardly ever delivers it.

Long story short.... warts on Neal, sure. Reasons for trading him.... arguably/likely yes. Value of a guy putting up a ppg average over three regular seasons exceeding what we just got? Obviously.

Ultimately when free agency is over we can discuss whether other moves in conjunction with this one makes us a better team. We can certainly hope so.

 

[KIRK]

Please....

Jokinen had open nets and flat out got hit by the puck for two of his goals, most of which came on the PP or with Sutter. He was otherwise the board battle losing, non-physical player who created zilch for Geno, including room, that he was all regular season, and to re-write your own understanding of the dynamics of that line TOTALLY because of these playoffs/a sudden Neal dislike and/or because Neal was just traded... that makes no sense.

Malkin & Neal with a genuine third wheel and a coach who will stop the nonsense of stretchpassing/dump & chase to instead play a puck possession game that benefits Geno and Neal... I find it pretty difficult to see how the likely resulting offense from Neal in such a situation is being replaced with what we got here.

As much as I like Hornqvist and find him VERY useful, there is so much rationalization going on here from some of you.

Worst yet I think from Stardog, who includes Spalling as a player who like PH provides exactly the qualities we are short on (paraphrasing). I mean seriously.... even Nashville fans who love him think him a dime a dozen player. Spalling as a winger is a clearly inferior player to Stempniak and as a C we have no need for him whatsoever. He got major minutes on Nashville because they had the worst group of forwards in the league, and he would have been a 4th liner on our playoff team for sure.
Nothing against him, but I doubt he will add significantly more as a third line winger next year than playing Megna full time, and if we want to have some player from outside doing that, I would certainly prefer more of a bruiser to complement what we have. None of these guys are tough/intimidating at all. Hornqvist takes punishment like a champ, great, but he hardly ever delivers it.

Long story short.... warts on Neal, sure. Reasons for trading him.... arguably/likely yes. Value of a guy putting up a ppg average over three regular seasons exceeding what we just got? Obviously.

Ultimately when free agency is over we can discuss whether other moves in conjunction with this one makes us a better team. We can certainly hope so.

1. That reply was tongue in cheek to a poster who (a) wants Crosby traded and (b) insisted to me that Neal did more to help Geno than Malone circa 2008, especially in the playoffs. Please don't tell me you buy (b) too.

2. I really do think that trading Neal had become a necessity and that there was nothing better out there (at least nothing that would've helped the Pens more before Sid turned 30).

3. I truly think that this is Shero's legacies. As I wrote earlier, this **** should've been dealt with proactively two years ago. Last summer, it was absolutely necessary. Now, this **** you see, the stuff we're going to see, Shero and Bylsma made this necessary. It's so bad you really couldn't risk Neal being around next season in case he didn't get with the program, not with a new system and trying to instill a new attitude. Two years ago, I'd have **** on this deal. A year ago, I'd have ***** about it. Now, I'm hoping for the best, but I absolutely understand why it was necessary and why some draft pick that might have panned out by the time Sid turned 30 didn't make or break the deal for the team.

Now, tell me what part of that is rationalizing anything.

 

[deakka]

Spalling is exatly what we DONT need for our bottom 6. I rather the throw in would have been a 3rd liner with som grit to his game. Spalling are an ok PKer but hes as soft as they come.

 

[KIRK]

Spalling is exatly what we DONT need for our bottom 6. I rather the throw in would have been a 3rd liner with som grit to his game. Spalling are an ok PKer but hes as soft as they come.

Spaling is a lot of things. Soft like Brandon Sutter isn't one of them.

 

[Michael8771*]

Spalling is exatly what we DONT need for our bottom 6. I rather the throw in would have been a 3rd liner with som grit to his game. Spalling are an ok PKer but hes as soft as they come.

And that's another concern. Our compete level might be satisfactory, but our size and physicality is still not what it needs to be. Hopefully we upgrade in that area.

 

[Kharkov]

More I think this the better it sounds. First I was like "James Neal for those two? Wtf? Neal is a player that even our biggest rivalry fans, Flyers fans, would want to have on their team".

Now it feels better. Hörnqvist is fine, but I would have hoped better than Spalling, but I guess this is best that were available for Neal.

 

[KIRK]

More I think this the better it sounds. First I was like "James Neal for those two? Wtf? Neal is a player that even our biggest rivalry fans, Flyers fans, would want to have on their team".

Now it feels better. Hörnqvist is fine, but I would have hoped better than Spalling, but I guess this is best that were available for Neal.

I would've hoped for better than Spaling too, which is why I voted the way I did in the rate the trade thread.

But, there's a difference between saying 'I wish we'd gotten more' and 'we shouldn't have done the deal because we could've gotten a little more like a 2nd'.

Given the current mental state of the Pens and where Neal fit in terms of that, I'm not sure we had the luxury of thinking the latter any more.

 

[Michael8771*]

More I think this the better it sounds. First I was like "James Neal for those two? Wtf? Neal is a player that even our biggest rivalry fans, Flyers fans, would want to have on their team".

Now it feels better. Hörnqvist is fine, but I would have hoped better than Spalling, but I guess this is best that were available for Neal.

We should have taken our time here. No huge hurry. Nashville needs star players, we should have exploited them a bit better.

 

[Kharkov]

I agree with both of you. Not a disaster however. I might even have some optimism towards this team now that Bylsma is gone.

 

[KIRK]

I agree with both of you. Not a disaster however. I might even have some optimism towards this team now that Bylsma is gone.

Well, that sentiment just transcends all other considerations right now.

 

[Michael8771*]

Yeah DB being gone is something that we can all celebrate. I'm completely on board there.

 

[canadianguy77]

I agree with both of you. Not a disaster however. I might even have some optimism towards this team now that Bylsma is gone.

Even though Sid is still sulking according to Rossi?

 

[KIRK]

Even though Sid is still sulking according to Rossi?

If I had a dime for every time Rossi was right about something, then my pockets would be as empty as they are now . . . or something like that.

 

[KIRK]

Posted again. Nice writeup from Puck Daddy: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...shville-for-hornqvist--spaling-002714460.html

 

[Uncle Machete]

I'm pretty sure that... person? in the Tribune is loving that Neal has been traded. Which to me is a big red flag

 

[canadianguy77]

Yeah DB being gone is something that we can all celebrate. I'm completely on board there.

I've had a few tonight...so keep that in mind. I've disagreed with you on certain things...nothing major.

But do you really want to trade Sid? And if you do, what would the haul look like? I'm just curious. Not trying to be a dick or anything.

At the end of the day, we're all just fans. I do get on Wingerz (Fire Shero's) ass from time to time though.

To me it seems like we'd never get enough for a guy like him with the cap being a constraint.

 

[madinsomniac]

We just changed coaches... we are moving players without the new guy having even one practice with these guys... that is probably a mistake. Im just not sure what the rush was... there is no law saying we had to move him at the draft... if the deal wasn't right we could have held on till after free agency when teams are a bit more desperate to fill holes... this didn't really save us much cap space or anything...

The whole thing perplexes me... moving a known quantity for a guy that may be able to put up the same points, who has not been effective in the playoffs... why so damn desperate to make changes for changes sake? we didn't maximize the value here... there are far better net guys to have, far younger wingers with upside potential... the best we do here is break even... and really that's not what we should have been gunning for with the best trade bait you had

 

[KIRK]

I'm pretty sure that... person? in the Tribune is loving that Neal has been traded. Which to me is a big red flag

You know who hasn't tweeted in 12 hours.

Nothing vicious from Yohe.

Dejan wrote a very fair, measured column.

Frankly, if trading Neal was all it would take to shut you know who up, then I it had happened a while ago.

 

[Michael8771*]

I've had a few tonight...so keep that in mind. I've disagreed with you on certain things...nothing major.

But do you really want to trade Sid? And if you do, what would the haul look like? I'm just curious. Not trying to be a dick or anything.

At the end of the day, we're all just fans. I do get on Wingerz (Fire Shero's) ass from time to time though.

To me it seems like we'd never get enough for a guy like him with the cap being a constraint.

Like I said before I'm not as against it as most. I'm not clamoring for it as some suggest. I mean I'm not saying we should just give the guy away. But if COL said we could have Mckinnon, Mcginn + Landeskog or ROR and a couple draft picks, I'd listen. Capwise that would work, and we'd have assets for years to come. Again I don't see it happening, but if it did that's the type of deal. Anything less and I don't trade him.

If Gretzky got traded (and yeah I know it was motivated by money), no one should be completely off limits.

 

[Uncle Machete]

You know who hasn't tweeted in 12 hours.

Nothing vicious from Yohe.

Dejan wrote a very fair, measured column.

Frankly, if trading Neal was all it would take to shut you know who up, then I it had happened a while ago.

Probably out celebrating. First named to the PHWA board and then the guy who calls him out on his stupid questions gets traded. Best day ever!

 

[KIRK]

We just changed coaches... we are moving players without the new guy having even one practice with these guys... that is probably a mistake. Im just not sure what the rush was... there is no law saying we had to move him at the draft... if the deal wasn't right we could have held on till after free agency when teams are a bit more desperate to fill holes... this didn't really save us much cap space or anything...

The whole thing perplexes me... moving a known quantity for a guy that may be able to put up the same points, who has not been effective in the playoffs... why so damn desperate to make changes for changes sake? we didn't maximize the value here... there are far better net guys to have, far younger wingers with upside potential... the best we do here is break even... and really that's not what we should have been gunning for with the best trade bait you had

You just said what the rush was.

Neal is a symbol of the arrogance and sense of entitlement that has plagued the Pens for the past few years. Perhaps one of the biggest symbols.

Because Ray Shero neglected this for the last two years, dealing proactively by say changing the coach so that Neal might be dealt with internally by a better coach, we've got a situation where there are a whole lot of problems.

New coach. New system. Need for a big cultural change. So, here's the question: Say we nix the deal because a 2nd wasn't added and go into next year and Neal still is a problem . . . what then?

Trade him. Yeah, you could still trade him then. Will it still be for this value? And, what will be the price paid next season, when you're trying to change so much about how this team plays and acts?

Look, I get it. Could've gotten a little more. Two years of doubling down on the same old **** by Ray Shero made that a lot less practical to hold out for.

I just look at the stakes involved and what the PLUS might have been later this summer if we'd walked on this deal . . . I just don't see it as black and white like some of you here that the absence of the PLUS should've been a deal breaker.

A year ago. Definitely two years ago. We had that luxury. Not now. Too big a risk for a 2nd round pick. And, who says Rutherford didn't ask for a little more anyway? Maybe he did, was told that's it, and made his decision. Who knows?

 

[KIRK]

Probably out celebrating. First named to the PHWA board and then the guy who calls him out on his stupid questions gets traded. Best day ever!

Really, **** him. It wasn't about him. And, I still say Neal was a poster child for the arrogance of this organization. There were things that Ray Shero had to do a year ago and really should have done two years ago. If he'd done them, then maybe trading Neal before next year isn't the imperative that it became.

It really is kind of ****** up. People give Shero a pass for getting what he could for Staal because he (Shero) refused to deal with the situation proactively. People now **** on JR because he got what he could for Neal after Shero had refused for two years to deal a cultural problem proactively.

 

[Michael8771*]

We just changed coaches... we are moving players without the new guy having even one practice with these guys... that is probably a mistake. Im just not sure what the rush was... there is no law saying we had to move him at the draft... if the deal wasn't right we could have held on till after free agency when teams are a bit more desperate to fill holes... this didn't really save us much cap space or anything...

The whole thing perplexes me... moving a known quantity for a guy that may be able to put up the same points, who has not been effective in the playoffs... why so damn desperate to make changes for changes sake? we didn't maximize the value here... there are far better net guys to have, far younger wingers with upside potential... the best we do here is break even... and really that's not what we should have been gunning for with the best trade bait you had

Very well thought out post. I couldn't agree more. We did not have to make that move yesterday. It appears to have been made in haste.

 

[canadianguy77]

You just said what the rush was.

Neal is a symbol of the arrogance and sense of entitlement that has plagued the Pens for the past few years. Perhaps one of the biggest symbols.

Because Ray Shero neglected this for the last two years, dealing proactively by say changing the coach so that Neal might be dealt with internally by a better coach, we've got a situation where there are a whole lot of problems.

New coach. New system. Need for a big cultural change. So, here's the question: Say we nix the deal because a 2nd wasn't added and go into next year and Neal still is a problem . . . what then?

Trade him. Yeah, you could still trade him then. Will it still be for this value? And, what will be the price paid next season, when you're trying to change so much about how this team plays and acts?

Look, I get it. Could've gotten a little more. Two years of doubling down on the same old **** by Ray Shero made that a lot less practical to hold out for.

I just look at the stakes involved and what the PLUS might have been later this summer if we'd walked on this deal . . . I just don't see it as black and white like some of you here that the absence of the PLUS should've been a deal breaker.

A year ago. Definitely two years ago. We had that luxury. Not now. Too big a risk for a 2nd round pick. And, who says Rutherford didn't ask for a little more anyway? Maybe he did, was told that's it, and made his decision. Who knows?

You're making too much sense for me Kirk. I'm questioning myself and my own beliefs now.

I might be too drunk though. I'm going to have to really think this **** through in the morning. I hate Hawaii sometimes...