James Reimer's Arbitration Case

[Cor]

Should have kept Drew MacIntyre. Now, if Reimer is traded, we have zero goaltending depth. Aside from Bernier, we have Gibson and Sparks with a total of like 36 AHL games experience between them.

There are like 6 goalies better than MacIntyre sitting in FA still

 

[gabeliscious]

I agree 100%. But it's not what you think, it's what you can prove, and the numbers show that Reimer and Bernier are essentially the same goalie.

but one is a starting goalie and the other might not even have a job as a backup in the nhl.

considering reimer has never played more then 37 games in an nhl season his stats are all projected". by playing less games, reimer has less opportunity for his stats to regulate.

i also dont buy into the argument that he played well 2 years ago and got the leafs into the playoffs and had a strong showing against boston. yes he played well but that was 2 years ago.

leafs management basically said bernier was brought in to push reimer and for their to be a 1a/1b situation until one of them pulled ahead. i think it was obvious that leafs felt bernier was their guy but reimer at least had a fighting opportunity to claim the #1 spot or at least mirror berniers performance. reimer basically wasted his opportunity and put up pretty sub standard numbers. in berniers 1st season in toronto playing 55 games he put up a save percentage of 923, in contrast reimers was 911. that is a HUGE difference especially considering how many shots the leafs gave up.

reimer and bernier only appear to be similar. the truth is they couldnt be further apart.

 

[Gary Nylund]

not me. my feelings on Reimer is pretty much this:

​

I do not think he's the best choice - for the SIMPLE FACT he doesn't want to be a backup. the end. even if you ignore everything else - he is not going to be happy playing less. so. get a goalie who wants to be a backup for a few years and challenge to be the #1.

Well that is your right. Me, I don't care what he wants, I just want him to play well. Also, if he does play well I think he improves his chances of getting traded as his value goes up. You want to be traded, earn it. Also, his emotions may have cooled a bit by now as well.

You can't always get what you want ...

There are like 6 goalies better than MacIntyre sitting in FA still

Perhaps but is that saying much?

 

[Sip]

If he wants out of Toronto he should sign for less money because if he gets that in arbitration it will make him more difficult to trade. I would be willing to bet lots of teams would take him on a cheap contract.

 

[StuckOutHere]

but one is a starting goalie and the other might not even have a job as a backup in the nhl.

considering reimer has never played more then 37 games in an nhl season his stats are all projected". by playing less games, reimer has less opportunity for his stats to regulate.

i also dont buy into the argument that he played well 2 years ago and got the leafs into the playoffs and had a strong showing against boston. yes he played well but that was 2 years ago.

leafs management basically said bernier was brought in to push reimer and for their to be a 1a/1b situation until one of them pulled ahead. i think it was obvious that leafs felt bernier was their guy but reimer at least had a fighting opportunity to claim the #1 spot or at least mirror berniers performance. reimer basically wasted his opportunity and put up pretty sub standard numbers. in berniers 1st season in toronto playing 55 games he put up a save percentage of 923, in contrast reimers was 911. that is a HUGE difference especially considering how many shots the leafs gave up.

reimer and bernier only appear to be similar. the truth is they couldnt be further apart.

Arbitrators also don't quantify who is a 1a or 1b. They look at stats not labels. People are trying to attach emotion, feeling, and circumstance to a cold process. Arbitration is a court case not a character study.

 

[Territory]

It would be in his best interest to sign for a good price. If he wants to be traded that is.

If he gets too much money no team will want to trade with him and he will be stuck on the Leafs until he is a UFA.

When would that be? If he signs a 1 year contract would he still be an RFA or a UFA?

 

[Deebo]

Well that is your right. Me, I don't care what he wants, I just want him to play well. Also, if he does play well I think he improves his chances of getting traded as his value goes up. You want to be traded, earn it. Also, his emotions may have cooled a bit by now as well.

You can't always get what you want ...

Yup, if there's no deal to that helps the Leafs, then Reimer stays.

If an established star like Luongo can suck it up and be a professional for the period of time he did, then so can James.

 

[Cor]

Perhaps but is that saying much?

No, but that isn't the point.

Point is, lack of goalie depth won't be an issue

 

[Pholus]

It would be in his best interest to sign for a good price. If he wants to be traded that is.

If he gets too much money no team will want to trade with him and he will be stuck on the Leafs until he is a UFA.

When would that be? If he signs a 1 year contract would he still be an RFA or a UFA?

He'll be a UFA next year as he will be 27 by August 1. If he really wants to get traded, taking a slightly cheaper contract would definitely be in his best interest, since there aren't too many teams still looking for a #1 goalie.

 

[Menzinger]

Arbitrators also don't quantify who is a 1a or 1b. They look at stats not labels. People are trying to attach emotion, feeling, and circumstance to a cold process. Arbitration is a court case not a character study.

People really need to get this through their heads here. The arbitration process takes into account stats and comparable salaries in other players. Reimer will get AT LEAST what Bernier was given before the start of last season, though he'll likely get more. I'll be surprised if Reimer gets less than 2.8 million. A lot of people here focus on his game 7 play, or the last few games of last season, but those won't matter to this process.

but on is a starting goalie and the other might not even have a job as a backup in the nhl.

considering reimer has never played more then 37 games in an nhl season his stats are all projected". by playing less games, reimer has less opportunity for his stats to regulate.

i also dont buy into the argument that he played well 2 years ago and got the leafs into the playoffs and had a strong showing against boston. yes he played well but that was 2 years ago.

leafs management basically said bernier was brought in to push reimer and for their to be a 1a/1b situation until one of them pulled ahead. i think it was obvious that leafs felt bernier was their guy but reimer at least had a fighting opportunity to claim the #1 spot or at least mirror berniers performance. reimer basically wasted his opportunity and put up pretty sub standard numbers. in berniers 1st season in toronto playing 55 games he put up a save percentage of 923, in contrast reimers was 911. that is a HUGE difference especially considering how many shots the leafs gave up.

reimer and bernier only appear to be similar. the truth is they couldnt be further apart.

To preface my comment, I'll openly say that I think Bernier is the better player between the two goalies however....

The question is: was last season truly representative of both players potential and abilities? It's fine if one thinks it is, but it's also just as reasonable to suggest that when you take the past several season's into account (Bernier and Reimer have very comparable stats, and one could even say Reimer's is more impressive given the mroe games he's played at the NHL level), James Reimer has the potential to put up much better numbers, and that Bernier may not be capable of sustaining that level of play in future. If the leafs continue to give up 35-45 shots per game, its statistically likely that Bernier save percentage will regress - how much it will regress remains an unknown.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yup, if there's no deal to that helps the Leafs, then Reimer stays.

If an established star like Luongo can suck it up and be a professional for the period of time he did, then so can James.

Exactly, perfect example! He should realize that his value is very low right now, plus now that he has asked for a trade, that lowers our leverage in trade discussions. He's being awfully presumptuous if he expects us to trade him when his value is at an all-time low. Suck it up and play dude. Play well and that helps your cause.

No, but that isn't the point.

Point is, lack of goalie depth won't be an issue

Fair enough. Unless of course those guys get signed first (have no idea if that's likely).

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

This arbitration is a game of chicken.. who is bluffing?

Leafs don't want him and Reimer doesn't want to be there... Reimer wants money and Leafs want a return... This is a negative sum game and no party will win.

 

[ACC1224]

Yup, if there's no deal to that helps the Leafs, then Reimer stays.

If an established star like Luongo can suck it up and be a professional for the period of time he did, then so can James.

He should but will he?

 

[StuckOutHere]

People really need to get this through their heads here. The arbitration process takes into account stats and comparable salaries in other players. Reimer will get AT LEAST what Bernier was given before the start of last season, though he'll likely get more. I'll be surprised if Reimer gets less than 2.8 million. A lot of people here focus on his game 7 play, or the last few games of last season, but those won't matter to this process.



To preface my comment, I'll openly say that I think Bernier is the better player between the two goalies however....

The question is: was last season truly representative of both players potential and abilities? It's fine if one thinks it is, but it's also just as reasonable to suggest that when you take the past several season's into account (Bernier and Reimer have very comparable stats, and one could even say Reimer's is more impressive given the mroe games he's played at the NHL level), James Reimer has the potential to put up much better numbers, and that Bernier may not be capable of sustaining that level of play in future. If the leafs continue to give up 35-45 shots per game, its statistically likely that Bernier save percentage will regress - how much it will regress remains an unknown.

Exactly my point. It's the body of work, not the specifics. The NHL would view Reimer "collapsing" (it was a team collapse) in game seven the same way it would view a blown lead in any other game, by viewing overall save percentage. Stats say he is as good as Bernier, just with more NHL and playoff experience.

 

[rojac]

I'll say it again. I really don't think this will go to a hearing.

 

[StuckOutHere]

He'll be a UFA next year as he will be 27 by August 1. If he really wants to get traded, taking a slightly cheaper contract would definitely be in his best interest, since there aren't too many teams still looking for a #1 goalie.

I think this is the only way we get pen to paper before arbitration. A gentlemen's agreement that Reimer takes less to facilitate a trade.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I'll say it again. I really don't think this will go to a hearing.

99% of the time it doesn't go to a hearing. This a very unique situation. I think it will. I see a few options.

1- Reimer takes less money($2M for example) as a way to facilitate a trade. A gentlemen's agreement of sorts.

2- Reimer goes to arbitration. Makes $3M. Stays on as the Leaf's expensive backup.

I don't see any reason why Reimer would sign without going to arbitration UNLESS he is taking a paycut (off his potential arb number) to facilitate a trade. I think league interest will be high at $2M (heck Leafs could eat $1M and make him a potential $1M, #1 goalie. A very valuable asset).

Leafs only have one thing they can hold over Reimer, and that is the ability to trade him if he cooperates.

Sidenote: I wonder if Nonis would channel his inner-Burke and waive Reimer. Remember, Burke promised to trade Bryzgalov while in Anaheim, failed to find a partner, and waived him as a means to fulfill his end of the bargain.

 

[Mess]

Yup, if there's no deal to that helps the Leafs, then Reimer stays.

If an established star like Luongo can suck it up and be a professional for the period of time he did, then so can James.

The player sucking it up and accepting his situation is only part of the big picture.

The situation still becomes a constant disruption to the team just like the Luongo situation was in Van as its front and center in the media that surrounds the team. Vancouver as a team didn't do very well through the Luongo situation. Luongo was far from the problem.

Leafs are a fragile team as it is at times, and it probably be best for all concerned if Reimer and Leafs parted ways before the season began. Arbitration cases can get ugly as both sides battle and Leafs management airs dirty laundry trying to bring salary demands down. That is only going to fracture this situation even more and emphasize James desire to leave.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The player sucking it up and accepting his situation is only part of the big picture.

The situation still becomes a constant disruption to the team just like the Luongo situation was in Van as its front and center in the media that surrounds the team. Vancouver as a team didn't do very well through the Luongo situation. Luongo was far from the problem.

Leafs are a fragile team as it is at times, and it probably be best for all concerned if Reimer and Leafs parted ways before the season began. Arbitration cases can get ugly as both sides battle and Leafs management airs dirty laundry trying to bring salary demands down. That is only going to fracture this situation even more and emphasize James desire to leave.

Not sure how worried we should be. I mean, disrupt our course to a likely 20th place or so finish ... whatever. And Vancouver kinda sucked anyway, Luongo didn't play badly at all through it all. And let's fact it, the Toronto media is a huge circus anyway when it comes to hockey, if not Reimer it'll be something else.

 

[pheasant]

There are like 6 goalies better than MacIntyre sitting in FA still

I'm not so sure. I don't think Brodeur or Khabibulin have anything to offer anymore, thought it pains me to say it. And I don't want to add a personality like Bryzgalov to the fishbowl in TO. Giguere wouldn't come back here.

So there's Vokoun and who else? Yan Danis?

Plus I'm not just worried about a backup. That was part of my point. All the way down to the AHL, the depth without Reimer is non-existant. Even with him it is bad. We could still use a journeyman to get hit by pucks in the AHL.

That's one of the reasons I expect Reimer to be back. Because if he is traded, then we need to find two goalies in a free agency scrap pile only two goalies deep.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Looks like Reimer will be a backup for Bernier to start the season off.
Look for Carlyle to say he played "OK" on his first fill in for Bernier.

 

[Deebo]

Looks like Reimer will be a backup for Bernier to start the season off.
Look for Carlyle to say he played "OK" on his first fill in for Bernier.

Oh the humanity!

How will Reimer be able to recover from Carlyle saying he played "Just OK" after being asked about Reimer performance's when it was "Just OK".

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Should have kept Drew MacIntyre. Now, if Reimer is traded, we have zero goaltending depth. Aside from Bernier, we have Gibson and Sparks with a total of like 36 AHL games experience between them.

MacIntyre will go on waivers since the Canes have Ward and Khudoban already on the team. We could always pick him up for free if we wanted.

 

[I Am The Stig]

not me. my feelings on Reimer is pretty much this:

​

I do not think he's the best choice - for the SIMPLE FACT he doesn't want to be a backup. the end. even if you ignore everything else - he is not going to be happy playing less. so. get a goalie who wants to be a backup for a few years and challenge to be the #1.

Irreplacable?

Did James Reimer cheat on you?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Irreplacable?

Did James Reimer cheat on you?

no.

it's just nuts to me that people keep wanting to cling on to pieces that don't work here. Not taking anything away from Reimer - but he doesn't work here anymore.the faster he goes is the best for everyone.


and i'm going to keep saying it: if his play down the stretch was due to lack of confidence, lack of playing time, pressure, bad defense, and not liking Randy - where exactly is this faith in Reimer's abilities coming from that he's going to be better because I doubt he will automatically like randy, he's not ging to get a lot of playing time, ergo whatever confidence he has will be gone, unless he wills himself to play well to be traded (which you know he very easily COULD have done with the season on the line, and he could have been see as the guy who got us to the playoffs and potentially win a playoff round).

i get i'm the bored Optimist - but someone is gonna have to spell this one out for me.