Player Discussion James “The Real Deal” Neal a Flame! 5 years, 28.75 million.

[Anglesmith]

Reports around the time of the deal and the fact that he took so long to get the deal signed.

You're going to have to be a lot more specific than that. You and I, I'm sure, have both seen plenty of 'reports' that are complete bollocks over the years. And yes, sensationalist click-bait and retweet-bait is extremely common to find during drawn-out negotiations, where everyone is getting anxious. So saying there were 'reports around the time of the deal' isn't very good support of anything. If you have an actual source that is legitimate, maybe. Maybe if the vaunted jmarshybosco93 said it...

As for the fact that he took so long to get the deal signed, in order to use that as support of anything, you are suggesting that Johnny being a bad guy is the most overwhelmingly likely explanation for why that contract took a long time to get signed. However, as everyone in hockey acknowledges, Gaudreau's contract is well below market value for what he provided in his first two seasons. That right there is the overwhelmingly likely reason for why he held out. With that being such an eminent possibility, there is no way to use that occurrence to support anything else.

 

[Baxterman]

You're going to have to be a lot more specific than that. You and I, I'm sure, have both seen plenty of 'reports' that are complete bollocks over the years. And yes, sensationalist click-bait and retweet-bait is extremely common to find during drawn-out negotiations, where everyone is getting anxious. So saying there were 'reports around the time of the deal' isn't very good support of anything. If you have an actual source that is legitimate, maybe. Maybe if the vaunted jmarshybosco93 said it...

As for the fact that he took so long to get the deal signed, in order to use that as support of anything, you are suggesting that Johnny being a bad guy is the most overwhelmingly likely explanation for why that contract took a long time to get signed. However, as everyone in hockey acknowledges, Gaudreau's contract is well below market value for what he provided in his first two seasons. That right there is the overwhelmingly likely reason for why he held out. With that being such an eminent possibility, there is no way to use that occurrence to support anything else.

Sure but there is no reason to believe these reports are false, it fits right in with John Boys personality.

I do not see John Boys contract as close to being below market value many better players have contracts similar or even below his.

 

[DCDM]

Sure but there is no reason to believe these reports are false, it fits right in with John Boys personality.

I do not see John Boys contract as close to being below market value many better players have contracts similar or even below his.

It fits right in with your perception of Johnny's personality. You still haven't provided anything close to concrete.

 

[Baxterman]

It fits right in with your perception of Johnny's personality. You still haven't provided anything close to concrete.

Well if you want to ignore facts I am not sure what you want at this point.

Concrete: John whined because he didn't get enough money despite it being a more than fair market value deal, John crying after everytime a guy takes the puck from him, John crying because someone hit him with a legal hit, John being overly attached to his family and hometown (area). John always looking to blame everyone else for his many failings.

 

[DCDM]

Well if you want to ignore facts I am not sure what you want at this point.

Concrete: John whined because he didn't get enough money despite it being a more than fair market value deal, John crying after everytime a guy takes the puck from him, John crying because someone hit him with a legal hit, John being overly attached to his family and hometown (area). John always looking to blame everyone else for his many failings.

I'm not ignoring anything because you haven't given me anything to ignore. Except your own words. You have yet to provide links to articles, interviews, hell even a tweet would be something but you just keep going on about these things Johnny has said or done without anything to back it up.

 

[Baxterman]

I'm not ignoring anything because you haven't given me anything to ignore. Except your own words. You have yet to provide links to articles, interviews, hell even a tweet would be something but you just keep going on about these things Johnny has said or done without anything to back it up.

Why do you need tweets you can see it in the things he does. That is more proof that Eric Francis sending out a tweet about what he sees.

 

[Anglesmith]

Sure but there is no reason to believe these reports are false, it fits right in with John Boys personality.

I do not see John Boys contract as close to being below market value many better players have contracts similar or even below his.

That's an extremely silly way to conduct analysis. A dangerous way to do so, I'd say.

You're saying that you decided on a conclusion, and thus anything that doesn't go against that conclusion is evidence of it. Not to make too big a deal out of it, but that's how the biggest flaws in human perception of the universe tend to occur.

I would say that since the contract was signed, Johnny's value has probably dipped a little bit, then rose again. I think his contract was a fair dollar value. But at the time it was signed, it was low for sure. He was a Calder finalist, then just about PPG in his second season, getting the team to the playoffs. At that point, it would be hard to argue against $7-8M on a long-term deal, but Treliving did argue against it, and thus the negotiations dragged. Other guys who had that same thing happen include Jaden Schwartz and Torey Krug.

 

[Anglesmith]

Why do you need tweets you can see it in the things he does. That is more proof that Eric Francis sending out a tweet about what he sees.

Oof, this is a rough post. "Why do you need evidence when you can just agree with me?"

 

[Baxterman]

Oof, this is a rough post. "Why do you need evidence when you can just agree with me?"

No the evidence is right there to see.

I am saying why do you need someone to tell you something when you can see it for yourself.

 

[SKRusty]

Sure but there is no reason to believe these reports are false, it fits right in with John Boys personality.

I do not see John Boys contract as close to being below market value many better players have contracts similar or even below his.

Few followed Johnny's contract situation closer than I did. I was the first to tell this forum he would not be sign for more than GIO. I was crapped on.

Regarding Johnny's comments at the time he was very hard on his agent and wanted what was fair in his eyes. He never slandered the organization or the people involved in the discussions and though it was a very difficult negotiation he would have never signed for the term he did if he thought poorly of the organization or the players around him. Johnny has had one of the hardest paths to the NHL and unlike other star players he had fewer years experience when his contract came up. That still does not diminish his talents.

The contract sign for Gaudreau was and is fair considering he did not have 4-5 years of experience before he came up for renewal. If he would have been in the NHL for a year or two longer he would have garnered the 8M that was rumored to be his asking price.

The only comments Johnny has said that there might be some divisiveness around would be his desire to play in the Philly market. This same question is asked of almost all stars and every last one of them says it would be nice some day if I was able to play for my hometown team.

FYI I was the one that lobbied hard for Johnny to be traded if he insisted on being greedy and taking the Flames to the cleaners so with that in mind quit spreading half truths or flat out lies.

 

[Baxterman]

That's an extremely silly way to conduct analysis. A dangerous way to do so, I'd say.

You're saying that you decided on a conclusion, and thus anything that doesn't go against that conclusion is evidence of it. Not to make too big a deal out of it, but that's how the biggest flaws in human perception of the universe tend to occur.

I would say that since the contract was signed, Johnny's value has probably dipped a little bit, then rose again. I think his contract was a fair dollar value. But at the time it was signed, it was low for sure. He was a Calder finalist, then just about PPG in his second season, getting the team to the playoffs. At that point, it would be hard to argue against $7-8M on a long-term deal, but Treliving did argue against it, and thus the negotiations dragged. Other guys who had that same thing happen include Jaden Schwartz and Torey Krug.

Nope I am saying that there is a very simple answer to everything that we see and I would rather go with that simple answer rather than twist myself in knots to defend a guy just because he wears Flames colors.

Some of the biggest flaws in sports history have come because guys are to blind to ignore the warts "their guys" have.

 

[Anglesmith]

No the evidence is right there to see.

I am saying why do you need someone to tell you something when you can see it for yourself.

Well, having gone through that discussion, it seems clear that this isn't true. The facts are there, and the facts aren't evidence of anything.

Unless, of course, you agree with me about there being evidence of Monahan needing rehab in a couple years...

 

[Anglesmith]

Nope I am saying that there is a very simple answer to everything that we see and I would rather go with that simple answer rather than twist myself in knots to defend a guy just because he wears Flames colors.

 

[Baxterman]

Well, having gone through that discussion, it seems clear that this isn't true. The facts are there, and the facts aren't evidence of anything.

Unless, of course, you agree with me about there being evidence of Monahan needing rehab in a couple years...

Haven't seen anything in Monahan to indicate that he needs rehab so why would I agree with that?

 

[Anglesmith]

Haven't seen anything in Monahan to indicate that he needs rehab so why would I agree with that?

Bingo. Now we're getting somewhere.

I'll consider this a success story for you if this is the note we end on.

 

[InfinityIggy]

So I am thinking James Neal wants to be here at least.

 

[1989]

So I am thinking James Neal wants to be here at least.

Do you have proof of that?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Get back on topic, or there will be consequences.

 

[The Gnome]

Try being one of the smallest players in the league with less talented players threatening your livelihood every day. Until you walk a mile in a man's shoes nothing can be said of Johnny's behaviors in regards to complaining to the referees, commenting on hacks or even the occasional frustration hack that may happen.

Johnny Gaudreau is one of the most dynamic offensive threats in the NHL. The guy spins on a dime, undresses all-star forwards and defensemen nightly and has a hockey IQ that maybe in the top 2 or 3 guys in the league. The only thing that Johnny does not have is size. If he did --- Connor and Sidney would not be competing for the title of best player in the league.

I'm not saying I look down on him at all for his actions. Simply pointing out reasons as to why he chirps the refs so much. If anything I agree with your sentiments, if I was a tiny dude getting hacked every shift, I'd definitely let the refs know about it. Pretty hard to play your game when you are constantly taking cheap shots. If anything, playing with Neal can help. Guy definitely has an edge to his game that Ferland rarely provided. If someone wants to take liberties with Johnny, he'll be there to respond.

 

[SKRusty]

Was actually adding to your thought not disputing it.

 

[tfong]

Do you have proof of that?

He signed the contract?

 

[JurassicTunga]

Neal on Tim and Sid:

 

[CraigsList]

I can't stop smirking looking at capfriendly and seeing no NTC/NMC by his name.

 

[The Gnome]

Neal on Tim and Sid:

I liked the part at the end where they talked about his intangibles and making the flames harder to play against. Neal is definitely a guy who has that IT factor, and he's won a lot in his career. Our team absolutely needs someone of his ilk. Hopefully Bennett takes notes.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Also length of Johnny's deal makes it fair value. If it was longer it would be below