Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[alternate]

If this is what JV is, he's still a useful piece. Still room for improvement, but draft day is long gone and the player Jake is today brings utility. I've been fine with his game so far this year, and like him beside Bo.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

If this is what JV is, he's still a useful piece. Still room for improvement, but draft day is long gone and the player Jake is today brings utility. I've been fine with his game so far this year, and like him beside Bo.

Virtanen totally changes the playing style of the Horvat line. His size and blazing speed creates so much time and space for his linemates. Horvat had his best game of the season with JV18 on his wing.

 

[iFan]

delete

 

[VanJack]

Virtanen is one frustrating player.....when he plays like he did the last two games, he's a load for any NHL d-man and can tilt the rink almost by himself. Then for a couple of games you have to check the lineup card to determine if he was even out there.

Everybody seems to have Jake topping out as a third-liner, who'll get you 10-15 goals and throw some hits. But of course playing wing with Sutter and Beagle as your center that's about all you could ever expect. But every time they move him up in the lineup, he seems to respond with moves and a shot you never see otherwise.

Like I said, an enigmatic player, and maybe at this point in his career, what you see is what you get.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Echoing the sentiments of others, yeah, his draft position will always leave you wanting more. At the end of the day, he is a either a 40-45 pt player if he play a full season with skilled linemates or a bottom 6 forward who could potentially crack 25pts.

He doesn't really kill penalties, has no ability to play on the PP either. Not a faceoff specialist. Not a player you want out in defensive situations. His salary better be cost-controlled for this reason. He is essentially a Steve Bernier clone we saw from 2008-2010.

I have no qualms about him being on the team if he can be a low cost bottom 6 forward.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Intended to post this right after the game but got stuck reading this thread and then didnt have the energy...


JV getting open for that setup by Horvat was awesome. If only he could do these things with any regularity.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

He looks like he’s taken another step this year. His passing is significantly improved, he’s not just rushing everything and taking a poor shot. I think if you leave him with Bo good things will come.

 

[DL44]

Virtanen is one frustrating player.....when he plays like he did the last two games, he's a load for any NHL d-man and can tilt the rink almost by himself. Then for a couple of games you have to check the lineup card to determine if he was even out there.

Everybody seems to have Jake topping out as a third-liner, who'll get you 10-15 goals and throw some hits. But of course playing wing with Sutter and Beagle as your center that's about all you could ever expect. But every time they move him up in the lineup, he seems to respond with moves and a shot you never see otherwise.

Like I said, an enigmatic player, and maybe at this point in his career, what you see is what you get.

Really? At 23? We calling it a day for his development at 23 now?


He'll continue to improve his consistency. I have no doubt.

 

[F A N]

Intended to post this right after the game but got stuck reading this thread and then didnt have the energy...


JV getting open for that setup by Horvat was awesome. If only he could do these things with any regularity.

Ya you got to wonder why he doesn't. Not like he gets hacked and whacked when he goes to the net like that. This isn't pre-year 2000 hockey.

 

[iFan]

Virtanen has been looking great, hopefully Green leaves him with Horvat, those two have looked great in the past as well the the coach splits them up.

 

[sting101]

Jake has been a pleasant suprise since moving up wih Horvat. His transitional play has been much better and as stated above he creates a tonne of room for Horvat and Pearson when his feet are moving like last night.

Was saying this before Green moved him up that his elite speed would really help balance the top6 as Perason and Boeser are average skaters. Its smart to have Miller and Jake on the wings to back teams off and increase the threat off the rush. Jakes backcheck really closes the ice for the opposition when he's flying and Miller has done much the same as he has played a lot of C and can help with faceoffs as well. Looking pretty balanced right now.

If Jake plays like he has so far he may have a big year.

 

[I am toxic]

Jake has been a pleasant suprise since moving up wih Horvat. His transitional play has been much better and as stated above he creates a tonne of room for Horvat and Pearson when his feet are moving like last night.

Was saying this before Green moved him up that his elite speed would really help balance the top6 as Perason and Boeser are average skaters. Its smart to have Miller and Jake on the wings to back teams off and increase the threat off the rush. Jakes backcheck really closes the ice for the opposition when he's flying and Miller has done much the same as he has played a lot of C and can help with faceoffs as well. Looking pretty balanced right now.

If Jake plays like he has so far this year he may have a big year.

Came here to say this. Well, allude to it. You said it much better than I could.

I really think Jake and Bo complement each other well.

Also really don't think Vancouver would get the same value that Jake can bring, if they were to trade him.

And if anyone can get Jake to be more consistent, it is Bo, talking to him after every shift.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Remember that multi-point night (was it 8 pts combined?) that the line of Bo, Jake and Sven had a few years ago? But coach WD split them up. Never understood why. Jake needs consistent linemates to succeed and Bo is a good fit.

Keeping him with Bo and rotating Pearson or Ferland on that line should keep it producing.

 

[VanJack]

Is it just me being optimistic, but is Jake actually making some pretty slick individual moves and looks to be seeing the ice a lot better. Might be just the evolution of a young player who took a few seasons to adjust to the NHL and the need for faster decision-making.

But of course we've seen these three or four game spurts from Jake before....but just maybe this time, the light bulb will finally be on permanently.

 

[PG Canuck]

Really? At 23? We calling it a day for his development at 23 now?


He'll continue to improve his consistency. I have no doubt.

this has literally been said for 5 years now. He is what he is. His IQ has ALWAYS been a knock on him, he’s not just going to magically develop it now.

His brain just doesn’t work in the offensive zone. Tunnel vision and no effort to drive the net and use his size/speed.

 

[PG Canuck]

Jake has been a pleasant suprise since moving up wih Horvat. His transitional play has been much better and as stated above he creates a tonne of room for Horvat and Pearson when his feet are moving like last night.

Was saying this before Green moved him up that his elite speed would really help balance the top6 as Perason and Boeser are average skaters. Its smart to have Miller and Jake on the wings to back teams off and increase the threat off the rush. Jakes backcheck really closes the ice for the opposition when he's flying and Miller has done much the same as he has played a lot of C and can help with faceoffs as well. Looking pretty balanced right now.

If Jake plays like he has so far he may have a big year.

not saying I disagree completely as he’s been decent but I’ve seen posts like this, ended with the exact sentence you did, and 5 games later he reverts back into the player we all know him to be.

I see no reason why it won’t happen again. Virtanen always has his little spurt of games then it’s nothing for even longer.

 

[Javaman]

not saying I disagree completely as he’s been decent but I’ve seen posts like this, ended with the exact sentence you did, and 5 games later he reverts back into the player we all know him to be.

I see no reason why it won’t happen again. Virtanen always has his little spurt of games then it’s nothing for even longer.

Yep. He's been a streaky player thus far in his career, which is why I'm always cautiously optimistic when he racks up a bunch of points in a small set of games. We've seen this before from Jake. I'm not yet convinced he's more than what he's shown in previous seasons: a decent 3rd line winger.

FWIW, he's currently on pace for 30 to 35 points.

 

[DL44]

this has literally been said for 5 years now. He is what he is. His IQ has ALWAYS been a knock on him, he’s not just going to magically develop it now.

His brain just doesn’t work in the offensive zone. Tunnel vision and no effort to drive the net and use his size/speed.

He's got tonne of development left.

Especially his consistency.

You know his good games?
You know his quiet games?
You know how he has some quiet gms in a row?
You know how sometimes he has a bunch of good games in row?

Well... as he gets older, he will play less quiet games and more good ones. Development.

 

[VanJack]

Yep. He's been a streaky player thus far in his career, which is why I'm always cautiously optimistic when he racks up a bunch of points in a small set of games. We've seen this before from Jake. I'm not yet convinced he's more than what he's shown in previous seasons: a decent 3rd line winger.

FWIW, he's currently on pace for 30 to 35 points.

If Jake scores 15-20 goals and 30-40 points and continues to build his defensive game--particularly along the wall in getting pucks out--then he'll be a useful player for the Canucks moving forward.

You could argue that you should expect a lot more from a sixth overall draft pick....but that appears to be his ceiling. I suppose the silver lining is that he's not an outright bust like the guy drafted just before him--Michael Dal Colle or a borderline 'bust' like Sam Bennett who went fourth overall.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Jake never thought the game well. I would watch him play in the WHL and it was apparent back then too. He would just overwhelm the opposition with his ridiculous speed, power and skill.

But now that we have 2 guys who can think the game at the highest level - aka Pettersson and Hughes - I can start to see Jake taking notes and making better decisions himself.

 

[Javaman]

If Jake scores 15-20 goals and 30-40 points and continues to build his defensive game--particularly along the wall in getting pucks out--then he'll be a useful player for the Canucks moving forward.

You could argue that you should expect a lot more from a sixth overall draft pick....but that appears to be his ceiling. I suppose the silver lining is that he's not an outright bust like the guy drafted just before him--Michael Dal Colle or a borderline 'bust' like Sam Bennett who went fourth overall.

Yeah, I think everyone is pretty much on board with what you're saying. He's a decent player, but a bad draft pick.

I think the only people who remain to be disappointed at this point are those who still think he is on the path to becoming a legit power forward who pots 25 to 30 goals over multiple seasons. The probability is very high that, given his age, we've already seen what Jake's ceiling is at this point. Expecting more is probably wishful thinking.

If the Canucks are going to resign him, it has to be with the understanding that he is a relatively replaceable sort of player.

 

[PG Canuck]

He's got tonne of development left.

Especially his consistency.

You know his good games?
You know his quiet games?
You know how he has some quiet gms in a row?
You know how sometimes he has a bunch of good games in row?

Well... as he gets older, he will play less quiet games and more good ones. Development.

Well if it were that easy then every player would be consistent.

 

[DL44]

Well if it were that easy then every player would be consistent.

Hmmmmmm... I don’t think that’s what it means... but I think you know that.

 

[PG Canuck]

Hmmmmmm... I don’t think that’s what it means... but I think you know that.

Virtanen is what he is and I have no doubts in that changing. He’s not smart enough offensively to be a top six player. He isn’t willing to use his size and speed often. Believe it or not, his lazy perimeter shots from bad angles aren’t achieving anything. He’s been doing that ever since he stepped on the NHL ice. Yet every week I swear I see “give him time he’ll learn.” Well it’s been years and here we are.

you don’t just pick up hockey IQ out of thin air from “experience”.

could Virtanen be a jannik Hansen type? Perhaps. That’s what I see his ceiling as and nothing more.

A player known to have bad hockey IQ isn’t going to just randomly wake up one day and have it. We’ve been hearing the same knocks since junior and the same issues still arise.

 

[DL44]

Virtanen is what he is and I have no doubts in that changing. He’s not smart enough offensively to be a top six player. He isn’t willing to use his size and speed often. Believe it or not, his lazy perimeter shots from bad angles aren’t achieving anything. He’s been doing that ever since he stepped on the NHL ice. Yet every week I swear I see “give him time he’ll learn.” Well it’s been years and here we are.

you don’t just pick up hockey IQ out of thin air from “experience”.

could Virtanen be a jannik Hansen type? Perhaps. That’s what I see his ceiling as and nothing more.

A player known to have bad hockey IQ isn’t going to just randomly wake up one day and have it. We’ve been hearing the same knocks since junior and the same issues still arise.

I read what you wrote above.

Copy n pasting over and over doesn’t make you right.

Such a blanket term - hockey IQ. Looks to be pretty high level in his defensive anticipation... that an IQ thing too you know.

Anyways... Virtanen looks better this season than last. Don’t know how you can possibly look at his 12 games and be thinking he’s has zero progression.
Keep copy n pasting... I think it’s very clearly not the case.