Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[VanJack]

You’re right. Because most teams really only need two wingers.

Canucks only need two, physical, power forward wingers like Ferland and Podkolzin. Virtanen plays that role about 25 percent of the time. The rest of the time he spends on the perimeter or as a floater in the neutral zone.

Maybe he goes somewhere else and replicates the career of Cam Neely. Personally I'd doubt it. But regardless, it ain't happening in VanCity.

 

[Luck 6]

Canucks only need two, physical, power forward wingers like Ferland and Podkolzin. Virtanen plays that role about 25 percent of the time. The rest of the time he spends on the perimeter or as a floater in the neutral zone.

Maybe he goes somewhere else and replicates the career of Cam Neely. Personally I'd doubt it. But regardless, it ain't happening in VanCity.

I don’t see why a guy like Virtanen can’t play on the 3rd line while a guy like Podkolzin plays on the 2nd line. Heck, they can both play on the 3rd line.

Podkolzin is 2 years away from being in the NHL, and Virtanen is only 22 years old. When Ferlands contract is up Virtanen will only be 27 years old and in his prime.

Anyways, I just fail to see how we only have room for two skilled physical wingers on our team. It’s senseless to me.

 

[M2Beezy]

Virtanen is the least of the team's problems. One can not be a fan of the pick but still think he has a place on this roster (at least ahead of the REAL deadweight on the club).

Yeah, just he continusuly disappoints us. Tho maybe thats my fault for having expectations that he could grow from last season. If i ajust my brain that he will be the same as last season i guess i could be happy with that and the disappointment goes away

It is what it is, he is no Horvat, who is a year OLDER but continues to get better season after season

 

[PG Canuck]

I can’t wait to hear “he’s only X years old!!!” for the next 10 years.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

To paraphrase the noted local hockey philosopher Todd Bertuzzi 'he is what he is.'

 

[hookshott]

I agree with this sentiment

Virtanen for Puljaarvi (sp?)....Puljaarvi has told them he will not play for them so they just might go for this!

 

[mathonwy]

To paraphrase the noted local hockey philosopher Todd Bertuzzi 'he is what he is.'

At age 23... he is who the Canucks have made him to be.

Player development in this organization has been a complete and utter joke and it takes the calibre of a Bo Horvat type of person to come through unscathed.

Jake, like the rest of us non-Bo Hovat types, relies on the organization that he's apart of to provide him with a good environment to work in in order for him to improve his skills and to grow as an employee as well as a person.

Instead, Jake got twitchy Willie Desjardins, luggage problems to Utica, an effing cluster of a blue line and a completely jaded veteran core who didn't give two effs about mentoring what would obviously (the Aquilinis spent an effing crazy amount of marketing money on the rookies) be their replacements.

Sure Jake shares some of the blame. However, the overwhelming amount of the blame has to be pointed directly at the Aquilinis who have managed this hockey team like a fantasy hockey pool and as such wasted Jake's formative NHL years (not to mention the Sedins twilight years).

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Virtanen for Puljaarvi (sp?)....Puljaarvi has told them he will not play for them so they just might go for this!

I like it but I think Puljujarvi is determined to avoid another negative Canadian fishbowl situation. That's been going around out there anyway.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

At age 23... he is who the Canucks have made him to be.

Player development in this organization has been a complete and utter joke and it takes the calibre of a Bo Horvat type of person to come through unscathed.

Jake, like the rest of us non-Bo Hovat types, relies on the organization that he's apart of to provide him with a good environment to work in in order for him to improve his skills and to grow as an employee as well as a person.

Instead, Jake got twitchy Willie Desjardins, luggage problems to Utica, an effing cluster of a blue line and a completely jaded veteran core who didn't give two effs about mentoring what would obviously (the Aquilinis spent an effing crazy amount of marketing money on the rookies) be their replacements.

Sure Jake shares some of the blame. However, the overwhelming amount of the blame has to be pointed directly at the Aquilinis who have managed this hockey team like a fantasy hockey pool and as such wasted Jake's formative NHL years (not to mention the Sedins twilight years).

Of course the development has been atrocious. Throw em into the deep end, see if they swim. Then send em to Utica the next year in a shitstorm of negativity. It's what we do here. To make it here is a true test of a players mettle.

 

[bbud]

I don’t see why a guy like Virtanen can’t play on the 3rd line while a guy like Podkolzin plays on the 2nd line. Heck, they can both play on the 3rd line.

Podkolzin is 2 years away from being in the NHL, and Virtanen is only 22 years old. When Ferlands contract is up Virtanen will only be 27 years old and in his prime.

Anyways, I just fail to see how we only have room for two skilled physical wingers on our team. It’s senseless to me.

I have said all along he will find his best years from 25 on has a great skill set with a lack of maturity and he's not by any means a terrible player just hasn't lived up to many posters expectations for his draft spot.
So trade him off for another project or keep him and get best you can out of him and at this point I'd think he's worth more to keep.

 

[mathonwy]

Of course the development has been atrocious. Throw em into the deep end, see if they swim. Then send em to Utica the next year in a ****storm of negativity. It's what we do here. To make it here is a true test of a players mettle.

It really does burn my bisquit to think about how poorly Jake's development was handled by this organization.

4th rate garbage dung heap of a company.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

It really does burn my bisquit to think about how poorly Jake's development was handled by this organization.

4th rate garbage dung heap of a company.

It's really my biggest worry with the way the team's being run and why I think the "Jimbo's great at drafting!!!1!" routine by the Benning bots is such a useless argument. This team can't develop talent worth shit. Unless a prospect steps into the lineup fully ready to go like Pettersson or Boeser, you can pretty much write them off for all the success the team has bringing young players along and moulding them into pros with complete games.

 

[mathonwy]

It's really my biggest worry with the way the team's being run and why I think the "Jimbo's great at drafting!!!1!" routine by the Benning bots is such a useless argument. This team can't develop talent worth ****. Unless a prospect steps into the lineup fully ready to go like Pettersson or Boeser, you can pretty much write them off for all the success the team has bringing young players along and moulding them into pros with complete games.

And..that's why we will be a consistently mediocre team as long as we're owned by the Aquilinis.

There is no real skill turning a 1st round pick into an NHL player. They're 1st round players for a reason.

The real skill comes in being able to turn borderline NHL players / later draft picks into bonafide contributing roster players on cap friendly contracts.

And to be able to do this, you need a culture of accountability and not a culture of nepotism.

And that's not the Aquilini Investment Group. Not even close.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

And..that's why we will be a consistently mediocre team as long as we're owned by the Aquilinis.

There is no real skill turning a 1st round pick into an NHL player. They're 1st round players for a reason.

The real skill comes in being able to turn borderline NHL players / later draft picks into bonafide contributing roster players on cap friendly contracts.

And to be able to do this, you need a culture of accountability and not a culture of nepotism.

And that's not the Aquilini Investment Group. Not even close.

I don't think it even really matters how the Aquamen run their family businesses so long as they actually put good people in charge of the Canucks and just bugger off back to their offices and let those people do their jobs. I mean, it worked before, right?

 

[Bad Goalie]

It's really my biggest worry with the way the team's being run and why I think the "Jimbo's great at drafting!!!1!" routine by the Benning bots is such a useless argument. This team can't develop talent worth ****. Unless a prospect steps into the lineup fully ready to go like Pettersson or Boeser, you can pretty much write them off for all the success the team has bringing young players along and moulding them into pros with complete games.

Man, when I think of how many times have I posted this in so many threads in so many different ways.

After the major point of only getting success from the guys who
Man when I think of how many times I have posted this concept in so many different ways, but once again this has been the reality of the way only the prospects who can make it right out of the chute end up Canucks.

They do not put the prospects that don't have the immediate stuff in a position to succeed. They have not provided the forward prospects with good play making centers in the past 4 seasons. For example just review the slugs the largest rookie crop of forwards ever got last season.

Now, look at this years veteran defenders who can work with the crop of rookies they have assigned there this season, 3 or 4 if you count Olli as a rookie. The AHL does. Absolutely none, zilch, nada!!!! Not a single vet on a team that ranked #28 in goals against last season with no rookie defenders. They lost Sifers to retirement, McEneny wasn't re-signed, Graham sucked big time and also wasn't re-signed, and Juolevi was lost to a season ending injury after 18 games. 3 of those 4 have been replaced by rookies.

Benning has kept his blue chippers acquired by the NHL's method of trying to help the bottom teams with top 1st round picks. The rest of his roster he has acquired through free agency and trades. The rest of the "prospects" sink or swim on their own because he doesn't care to sign the players who can help them.

He also appointed a company yes man to "act" (and the word "act" is to be taken as it's defined) as the AHL GM. Between them they can't figure out that developing wings require good centers and developing D-men requires a couple very good veteran D-men. Kent Huskins ('13-14, '14-15), Bobby Sanguinetti ('14-15), and Taylor Fedun ('15-16) have been what kids need. Then it was Chad Billins and Colby Robak ('16-17), Patrick Wiercioch and Philip Holm, but AHL signed journeyman Jaime Sifers, who was kept in reserve, was best suited for the job as the other 2 were not actually good defenders ('17-18), and finally only Jaime Sifers again ('18-19). Thus, it's been since '16-17 that the d-corps has had the type of strong defenders the kids need.

This isn't rocket science and you don't need an advanced degree in hockey science to realize that kids develop best surrounded by a strong support system comprised of experienced AHL or European players that have been in the NHL or have been strong players at the AHL level or the top European leagues. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to qualify as veterans either, e.g. Fedun wasn't a vet. Several AHL teams make it a habit of bringing in players from Europe who have been skipped over by the NHL, but end up making very good AHL players without veteran status. The Toronto Marlies and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins are 2 examples.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Man, when I think of how many times have I posted this in so many threads in so many different ways.

After the major point of only getting success from the guys who
Man when I think of how many times I have posted this concept in so many different ways, but once again this has been the reality of the way only the prospects who can make it right out of the chute end up Canucks.

They do not put the prospects that don't have the immediate stuff in a position to succeed. They have not provided the forward prospects with good play making centers in the past 4 seasons. For example just review the slugs the largest rookie crop of forwards ever got last season.

Now, look at this years veteran defenders who can work with the crop of rookies they have assigned there this season, 3 or 4 if you count Olli as a rookie. The AHL does. Absolutely none, zilch, nada!!!! Not a single vet on a team that ranked #28 in goals against last season with no rookie defenders. They lost Sifers to retirement, McEneny wasn't re-signed, Graham sucked big time and also wasn't re-signed, and Juolevi was lost to a season ending injury after 18 games. 3 of those 4 have been replaced by rookies.

Benning has kept his blue chippers acquired by the NHL's method of trying to help the bottom teams with top 1st round picks. The rest of his roster he has acquired through free agency and trades. The rest of the "prospects" sink or swim on their own because he doesn't care to sign the players who can help them.

He also appointed a company yes man to "act" (and the word "act" is to be taken as it's defined) as the AHL GM. Between them they can't figure out that developing wings require good centers and developing D-men requires a couple very good veteran D-men. Kent Huskins ('13-14, '14-15), Bobby Sanguinetti ('14-15), and Taylor Fedun ('15-16) have been what kids need. Then it was Chad Billins and Colby Robak ('16-17), Patrick Wiercioch and Philip Holm, but AHL signed journeyman Jaime Sifers, who was kept in reserve, was best suited for the job as the other 2 were not actually good defenders ('17-18), and finally only Jaime Sifers again ('18-19). Thus, it's been since '16-17 that the d-corps has had the type of strong defenders the kids need.

This isn't rocket science and you don't need an advanced degree in hockey science to realize that kids develop best surrounded by a strong support system comprised of experienced AHL or European players that have been in the NHL or have been strong players at the AHL level or the top European leagues. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to qualify as veterans either, e.g. Fedun wasn't a vet. Several AHL teams make it a habit of bringing in players from Europe who have been skipped over by the NHL, but end up making very good AHL players without veteran status. The Toronto Marlies and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins are 2 examples.

Oh, I hear you. What the team's done in Utica is truly a shame. Started off with such promise. There could be such a great development team there, but it's been so badly neglected since Henning left. It's so frustrating that the Canucks would rather put more time and energy waging online propaganda campaigns against their own fans then they do into building a proper AHL feeder system.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Oh, I hear you. What the team's done in Utica is truly a shame. Started off with such promise. There could be such a great development team there, but it's been so badly neglected since Henning left.

His son is the head of the pro scouting department of the Canucks.

 

[VanJack]

At some point (like now) the responsibility defaults to the actual player. When a guy gets called out on the first day of practice for not meeting his off-season conditioning goals, then something's amiss. Virtanen has all the tools--the reason he was drafted so highly. But the toolbox is lacking. And I'm not sure it will ever happen in Canuck-land.

 

[F A N]

As long as Jake is cheap I think he is a good player to have on the team. Who cares if he would be better off on another team. The only question is whether the team is better with him in the lineup and I don’t see anyone here arguing that the Canucks are better without him in the lineup.

His son is the head of the pro scouting department of the Canucks.

Utica’s best season also came under Benning’s watch but BG doesn’t like that fact.

 

[Peter10]

As long as Jake is cheap I think he is a good player to have on the team. Who cares if he would be better off on another team. The only question is whether the team is better with him in the lineup and I don’t see anyone here arguing that the Canucks are better without him in the lineup.



Utica’s best season also came under Benning’s watch but BG doesn’t like that fact.

Henning was responsible for them in 14-15 and got fired for leading them to the final. Such a smart decision by Benning, just look how much better it got since.

 

[Luck 6]

I have said all along he will find his best years from 25 on has a great skill set with a lack of maturity and he's not by any means a terrible player just hasn't lived up to many posters expectations for his draft spot.
So trade him off for another project or keep him and get best you can out of him and at this point I'd think he's worth more to keep.

I agree that we will not see Virtanen at his best until his mid-to-late twenties. And as such, I just don't see why it would make any sense to trade him.

It's funny, because if Virtanen were drafted in the 3rd round fans would literally be singing his praises right now. I think it's time we put draft position behind us and start looking at the player and what he does and can do for our team.

 

[PG Canuck]

Utica’s best season also came under Benning’s watch but BG doesn’t like that fact.

Benning rebuilt Utica that fast? Well, why are they bad now?

 

[mathonwy]

I don't think it even really matters how the Aquamen run their family businesses so long as they actually put good people in charge of the Canucks and just bugger off back to their offices and let those people do their jobs. I mean, it worked before, right?

I'm pretty pessimistic about this type of stuff.

Organizational behavior-wise, the AIG is a toxic organization that has shown zero disregard for pretty much everything.

They usually do whatever they want and the Canucks over the last few years are the most public example of this.

It's not all doom and gloom though because one thing nobody likes (especially so for the very wealthy) is to be loser.

Seattle is coming.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

His son is the head of the pro scouting department of the Canucks.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

Utica’s best season also came under Benning’s watch but BG doesn’t like that fact.

Ooo gee whizz wow, by any chance was it the very first year of Benning being here when he inherited everything from the previous regime and hadn't had time to put his stamp on everything?

 

[DFAC]

Been really liking JV on Horvat's wing, I think he brings some much needed speed onto that line

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen also bumps Leivo down to the bottom 6 which he is a better fit for