Player Discussion Jake Virtanen placed on leave of absence from Canucks amid allegations of sexual misconduct

[Zippgunn]

Seeing as twitter is tearing him apart and he will probably lose everything even if judged not guilty im not sure why you would even say this.

Funny that didn't happen to Patrick Kane...

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

This franchise is cursed. What caused it?

1970 man. Look at our cousin franchise. Both cursed.

 

[Seattle Totems]

If you're meeting a guy alone at a hotel he is obviously expecting sex. It doesn't make it consensual however.

I think women should talk about rape culture and understand that men can not be trusted when alcohol drugs or opportunity are involved. There should be some warning on dating and hook up sites as well.

 

[Tables of Stats]

If you're meeting a guy alone at a hotel he is obviously expecting sex. It doesn't make it consensual however.

I think women should talk about rape culture and understand that men can not be trusted when alcohol drugs or opportunity are involved. There should be some warning on dating and hook up sites as well.

This is victim-blaming though. Women shouldn't need to fear men any more than men need to fear women.

Yes, it is prudent to be aware of the reality and do things like watching drinks, traveling in groups, and having first meetings with prospective partners in public places but it should not be the default. We need to move beyond this.

 

[timw33]

I think women should talk about rape culture and understand that men can not be trusted when alcohol drugs or opportunity are involved. There should be some warning on dating and hook up sites as well.

This is the "boys will be boys" defence.

 

[MS]

As stated in the article, at this time - the claim is unsubstantiated.

However, is it true that women are assaulted by men at rates far higher than people want to admit? Yup. Is it true that a significant minority of these claims against high profile individuals are false and it comes out that they were made up? Yup. Does court saying there wasn’t proof beyond a reasonable doubt mean it didn’t happen? Nope. Does a settlement mean it did or didn’t happen? Nope. (Look at the recent Ronaldo/Vegas allegation)

If someone I was close to and trusted came and told me they were the victim of an SA, I’d believe them 100% as I have in the past. But when I don’t know anyone personally and it’s all alleged/unsubstantiated at the time, it’s tough.

Yeah, everyone wants to make this such a black-and-white thing.

I feel like I can believe and understand that there is a ~95% chance this person is telling the truth while also refraining from getting my pitchfork out until I have more complete information and the appropriate authorities have done a thorough investigation.

I jumped the gun in assuming that Patrick Kane was guilty as hell and haven’t forgotten that.

Basically I think it’s highly likely that Virtanen is in a lot of trouble but I’m not going to assume that’s definitely the case until we know more.

If more women come forward this will get really bad.

In a hockey related sense, the big question now is how long the team knew about this for.

 

[BWJM]

So we lost Toffoli/Stetcher etc for this idiot. I wish he would've been gone in 2017... but props to this girl for finally getting the courage to come forward.

Now we'll likely get blown out tonight to cap this all off.

 

[Tables of Stats]

In a hockey related sense, the big question now is how long the team knew about this for.

My guess would be not too long. Even if Benning et al. are useless, I'd assume Aquaman would want to head off any bad PR asap and waiting doesn't do that at all. I could be wrong or ascribing the wrong motives to the people involved but that's my guess.

 

[valkynax]

What, the, actual f***, is this????????

 

[RussianRacket]

But on the other, our society is set up in a way where people are getting cancelled regardless of guilt or intent.

I'd like to note that in many instances this is a direct pushback against the inadequacies of the justice system especially when it comes to sexual crimes.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

This is a bad situation for all involved. At best, he’s a young hockey player that put himself in a potentially bad situation that a more mature person wouldn’t have. Beyond that, who knows? If they agreed to meet, there has to be some responsibility on her part, but if she was mislead and the situation got awkward and he didn’t take no for an answer, then he’s a grade “A” POS who deserves every punishment he gets. Has there been a pattern of behaviour like this for Virtanen? Given that no formal charges have been filed, the Crown prosecutor obviously did not think a conviction was possible, but if more accusations are coming out of the woodwork, then things aren’t going to go away for Jake. Nor should they.

It is possible that the victim did not want to give evidence at a criminal trial so no charges were laid. That happens a lot.

 

[MS]

My guess would be not too long. Even if Benning et al. are useless, I'd assume Aquaman would want to head off any bad PR asap and waiting doesn't do that at all. I could be wrong or ascribing the wrong motives to the people involved but that's my guess.

There are (unconfirmed) reports they knew about it before the last game and played him anyway, which is not a terribly good look.

 

[Petey O]

There are (unconfirmed) reports they knew about it before the last game and played him anyway, which is not a terribly good look.

He's not even a player you *need* to have in your lineup.

Odd. But I expect that level of incompetence at this point, so.

 

[Tables of Stats]

There are (unconfirmed) reports they knew about it before the last game and played him anyway, which is not a terribly good look.

It'll depend on exactly what they'd heard and when. I can understand a coach not wanting to pull a player over a rumor. This is if the news had even reached him yet given the layers of legal and HR it would likely have to pass through to reach the coach at all. For an organization to react in only a day or two is actually pretty decent even if it doesn't always look that way.

*Mistyped HR as PR.

 

[RussianRacket]

Since we are stretching this to management having some knowledge of this, I wonder to what extent players might have known about it beforehand as well.

 

[sting101]

There are (unconfirmed) reports they knew about it before the last game and played him anyway, which is not a terribly good look.

yes but "hearing things" vs having someone come forward in an official capacity is a massive massive difference as an employer

 

[MarkMM]

I hope it doesn't need to be said but just in case, obviously if true the priority is the victim. Beyond that, in terms of its impact on the Canucks, if he's terminated for cause do we still carry the cap or is that wiped out?

 

[MS]

I hope it doesn't need to be said but just in case, obviously if true the priority is the victim. Beyond that, in terms of its impact on the Canucks, if he's terminated for cause do we still carry the cap or is that wiped out?

We were discussing this yesterday but the posts were deleted.

In the case of Voynov a couple years ago, he was essentially on LTIR for the season in which the charges were being investigated, then terminated the following year after his conviction.

In Virtanen’s case, he only has a year left on his contract so his contract would probably run out before this is all settled and we could potentially reach the point of a termination.

 

[y2kcanucks]

This franchise is cursed. What caused it?

A player doing something deplorable like this isn't an organization curse. It's a f***ed up choice a player made that has a negative lifelong impact on the victim. If Virtanen is indeed guilty of this he should be in jail.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i will partly prejudge him. he's a jackass.

he certainly gets to have a trial as to whether he is criminally liable or even whether there are any consequences for his job.

but even if innocent and even if a victim, he's pretty much proven he's a jackass by taking the risks that allowed this situation to exist. there is no good outcome here for jake unless she got the wrong guy. just gradations of jackassery ranging from damn fool to douchebag to criminal. i don't like his chances of just being a damn fool when the dust settles, but let's see where it goes.

 

[valkynax]

A player doing something deplorable like this isn't an organization curse. It's a f***ed up choice a player made that has a negative lifelong impact on the victim. If Virtanen is indeed guilty of this he should be in jail.

Well it can't be helped, not like we could've picked Nylander or Ehlers or practically ANYONE else, right?

...RIGHT?!?!!!

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I'm not advocating one way or another but sexual assault is quite clearly the one realm of criminal law where "innocent until proven guilty" completely undermines the actual pursuit of justice and contributes to the problem of rape culture.

If it were guilty until proven guilty there would never be anyone guilty of a crime go free, but there would be a lot of innocent people being punished for crimes they didn't commit. That isn't justice either.

The problem isn't "innocent until proven guilty". The problem is that unless the survivor immediately gets a rape kit, there is not enough evidence to put the culprit away. It's even harder when it was a sexual assault. Which means too many people get away, and too few victims get justice.

 

[canucksfan]

If you're meeting a guy alone at a hotel he is obviously expecting sex. It doesn't make it consensual however.

I think women should talk about rape culture and understand that men can not be trusted when alcohol drugs or opportunity are involved. There should be some warning on dating and hook up sites as well.

This is an absolutely disgusting viewpoint.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Well it can't be helped, not like we could've picked Nylander or Ehlers or practically ANYONE else, right?

...RIGHT?!?!!!

I wouldn't even go there. Two different situations. It was dumb to pass on those two, but that's just what happens when you have an idiot as GM. Nothing to do with this situation. What Virtanen did, if guilty, is absolutely deplorable, disgusting, he should never play another game in the NHL, and he should be locked up. There is no supporting that.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

If you're meeting a guy alone at a hotel he is obviously expecting sex. It doesn't make it consensual however.

I think women should talk about rape culture and understand that men can not be trusted when alcohol drugs or opportunity are involved. There should be some warning on dating and hook up sites as well.

There is a BIG difference between two teenagers getting together because of booze, drugs, and hormones, and a guy being creepy and continually making moves after the girl says she isn't interested in sex.