Jason Brough of TSN1040 / The Athletic made a "crazy prediction" that Virtanen would score 20 goals. Co-Host Mike Halford egged him on for such a crazy prediction. Brough thought every goal should be celebrated on the road to 20 and someone proposed shotgunning a beer everytime he scored a goal. The twitter hashtag was available, so #shotgunjake was born.
Player Discussion Jake Virtanen Part 2
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Jason Brough of TSN1040 / The Athletic made a "crazy prediction" that Virtanen would score 20 goals. Co-Host Mike Halford egged him on for such a crazy prediction. Brough thought every goal should be celebrated on the road to 20 and someone proposed shotgunning a beer everytime he scored a goal. The twitter hashtag was available, so #shotgunjake was born.
ddawg1950
Registered User
Rather than make predictions, I'm just enjoying watching his development.
It's way too early to say where he ends up, but he seems to be motivated, and he seems to be "getting it."
It's way too early to say where he ends up, but he seems to be motivated, and he seems to be "getting it."
I agree. Enjoy it and hope he continues to improve. He was thought to be another evander Kane when he got drafted.
Over 9 seasons Kane on a 82 game pace for his career would be a 27 goal 24 assist pace for 51 points. He’s a $7 million player as a UFA.
Can make ever hit those numbers? Likely not.
Hilarious that people keep complaining that Jake is always maligned by posters over his draft position. But then after stringing together 3-4 good games at the beginning of the season are super fast to point out he has more points than those drafted around him.
Hope he keeps it up but I'm more inclined to believe this is a hot streak and he'll cool down again. I'd bet money Ehlers still ends the season with more points.
Middle 6 player is still probably the best we could hope for out of JV.
Hope he keeps it up but I'm more inclined to believe this is a hot streak and he'll cool down again. I'd bet money Ehlers still ends the season with more points.
Middle 6 player is still probably the best we could hope for out of JV.
TheOtherGM
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2007
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Middle six with a different skill set though.
How many middle sixers have the tools that Jake has? We've seen flashes of dominance and there may come a day when he is a very valuable piece on a contending club.
Let's hope it's ours.
How many middle sixers have the tools that Jake has? We've seen flashes of dominance and there may come a day when he is a very valuable piece on a contending club.
Let's hope it's ours.
I look at trajectory and development. Ehlers and Nylander are what they are. They will never be more, they are top 6 'complementary' scorers - ie not driver of the play. You're going to get 50-70 pts from them, good numbers for sure, but playoff caspers given what we've already seen in their games.
Jake started slow yes, but he was A) rushed into the league B) Immature professionally C) Had alot to learn about the nuances of being a pro and the pro game
Green taught him well in Utica, seems to know his buttons here. Now what we're seeing is a kid who, if you look at the changes in his game over this 2-3 year period are night and day to his rookie year.
The Naysayers seem to look at Jake as though he is still that 'deer in the headlights' 19 yr old with all the tools.
I look at him as a kid that has now
1. Grown in maturity, and professionalism
2. Plays incredibly well in his own end, I am seeing him most shifts be the first fwd back in his zone
3. Creates a great deal of turnovers given his speed
4. Still is throwing big hits but is picking his spots so not to get out of position
5. Is now starting to score from driving the net and being in the right spots
All I have cared about from Jake is year by year does he keep taking another step. No one in their right mind can actually say he hasn't improve materially every year. The Twins took years to become stars (no I am not saying Jake is as good as the twins- its the point of time), Kesler, Burrows, Hansen etc.
Jake is still learning what his ceiling is, we still don't know. I am not saying he's going to outscore Nylander and Ehlers but he brings other facets as well to his game that are more valuable in our mix. I also am not saying that we DON"T have a player that could turn into a Jeff Carter type player. I actually think Jake has that in him.
If he becomes a 20 goal scorer, hits, and plays the defense he plays, he's way more valuable than Ehlers or Nylander will ever be. He's a threat any style of game is being played. Open free wheeling, he's a burner with hands. Playoff, hard, heavy games, he's hitting and getting to the net.
This kid "if he keeps on developing" as he has, is going to make the bashers eat crow....They are already a bit concerned and seem to be hoping the kid fails just so they can save face...a bit odd to 'cheer against' your own players just because of one's fragile ego lol.....
He's going to be a force in a few years, and I would love to see him up and down the wing with EP and Goldy
Canucks were last in scoring combined the last 3 seasons. On the roster you only have 3 players that are able to put 50 plus points a season. Horvat Pettersson Boeser. I rather have the 50 to 70 points from Nylander/Ehlers.
If Virtanen does become a middle 6. Ask yourself when have a team traded a 50 to 70 point scorer 1st/2nd wingers for a middle 6 winger 2nd/3rd? Almost never. Why because 1st/2nd winger are more valuable.
His career high is still 10 goals. Let see some more goals before saying he has good hands. Btw he never played in a playoff game. Not sure how You can know he will be good in the playoffs.
Frankie Blueberries
Allergic to draft picks
- Jan 27, 2016
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Great game from Jake.
I'm not too worried about consistency for him. Firstly, he's young and still developing - he's the type of player that will have his ups and downs, and I expect him to struggle at times throughout the season. As long as he's still generally improving (both offensively and defensively), I'm not too concerned for his production. Secondly, he's been playing middle 6 minutes and that's what we expect from him - being a good middle 6 forward. Middle 6 forwards are generally not that consistent; if they were, they'd be in the top 6. As long as he brings this effort on a semi-regular basis, I'm happy.
I'm not too worried about consistency for him. Firstly, he's young and still developing - he's the type of player that will have his ups and downs, and I expect him to struggle at times throughout the season. As long as he's still generally improving (both offensively and defensively), I'm not too concerned for his production. Secondly, he's been playing middle 6 minutes and that's what we expect from him - being a good middle 6 forward. Middle 6 forwards are generally not that consistent; if they were, they'd be in the top 6. As long as he brings this effort on a semi-regular basis, I'm happy.
So 3 goals in 2 games made Virtanen a top 6 guy. The 8 games before that he was using his speed to forecheck and Backcheck and hitting and wasn't putting up points. So that means he was the next Antoski without the fighting skill the 8 games before his hot streak?
3 goals in 2 games. People are getting so ridiculous
Please explain the following:
1) How are Ehlers and Nylander 'are what they are' while JV apparently is still developing? They are the same age. What brings you to this conclusion?
2) How did you determine that Ehler and Nylander are 'playoff caspers'? Ehlers scored at 0.5ppg in last years playoffs. Nylander at 0.57ppg. Meanwhile Jake is at 0.5ppg to start this season and that's being seen as a great accomplishment.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
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Ehlers and Nylander are 22 years old. Your certainty that they will never improve seems like something you want to be true in order to support a certain narrative. I'm excited for Virtanen's progress and think he'll be a good forward. But let's be real -- every single GM in the NHL would take either Ehlers or Nylander over him without more than a few seconds' hesitation, both in view of their current play and their potential.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
It's baby steps for Virtanen, but I think some of the rope he's earning from Green is worthy of note. Offensive contributions aside, he was lining up with Sutter and Roussel on what was effectively our shutdown unit. That's a lot of trust for Green to show in him, even if his minutes were being managed somewhat more carefully than those of his linemates. He doesn't have the mind for zone strategy that someone like Sutter has, but he has the wheels and hustle to be effective on the rush going forward, and backchecking to break up rushes for the other team.
All of this is fairly promising stuff, IMO, and then we have the offense on top of it. I especially like how of his 4 goals scored against a goaltender, none of them are trash. You've got a nice deke and three quality snipes for his others. One thing Jake has definitely not used enough at this level is his shot, which was a big part of what made him such an appealing prospect. I do hope this is a sign that he's going to use it more consistently.
Very happy to see some progress out of him this year.
All of this is fairly promising stuff, IMO, and then we have the offense on top of it. I especially like how of his 4 goals scored against a goaltender, none of them are trash. You've got a nice deke and three quality snipes for his others. One thing Jake has definitely not used enough at this level is his shot, which was a big part of what made him such an appealing prospect. I do hope this is a sign that he's going to use it more consistently.
Very happy to see some progress out of him this year.
Fire Benning
diaper filled piss baby
It's possible to enjoy JV's current hot streak and have fun shotgunning beers while simultaneuously acknowledging that he might not continue producing at his current pace.
xtra
Registered User
I’m never going to be a fan of the pick but realizing what’s done is done and the need to maximize the best out of Jake for the sake of team is what we need to do. Same funnily applies to OJ,
But what I would like to see is him play with petersson, his quick release and petersson ability to pass the puck could be really good together
But what I would like to see is him play with petersson, his quick release and petersson ability to pass the puck could be really good together
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
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i love that you brought this up because when i watched Jake in his draft year he looked like he had an elite shot and at the junior level he would drift back for a deadly, often accurate hard one timer also.
Since his shoulder injury/surgery and the adjustments to smaller gaps, game speed and time he had struggled to display this to any degree until a few games mostly at the end of last season and now it's being displayed to start this year. This is a significant development step.
Who really cares about Ehlers and Nylander anymore? it's been almost 4 1/2 yrs. The points are nice and measuring a career will likely see them as better NHLers but for this team and where we are and where we want to be in a couple years Jake is coming along nicely and adds an element of play that is very rare and valuable if he's focused.
It's always amazing to me how the landscape for young players can change in a heartbeat. Ehlers has sort of hit the wall in the 'Peg and Nylander is a holdout and now speculation is he might never suit up for the Leafs again.
Meantime Virtanen is ripening on the vine, so to speak. Explosive speed through the neutral zone and dishing out punishment along the wall. Now finding his scoring touch. Seems to me to be the standard evolution for a top power-forward prospect. But as other posters have stressed, it's all about consistency.
But since Virtanen has already been traded on these boards a million times, it's still a relief that he's doing it in VanCity instead of another NHL franchise which would have rooked Jimbo in a lopsided deal.
Meantime Virtanen is ripening on the vine, so to speak. Explosive speed through the neutral zone and dishing out punishment along the wall. Now finding his scoring touch. Seems to me to be the standard evolution for a top power-forward prospect. But as other posters have stressed, it's all about consistency.
But since Virtanen has already been traded on these boards a million times, it's still a relief that he's doing it in VanCity instead of another NHL franchise which would have rooked Jimbo in a lopsided deal.
In my mind Jake always had that shot, I wasnt that concerned about him being able to rip shots off. What did concern me was his play without the puck. His first couple years he looked lost out there without the puck.
An indicator to me about how far he has come is that empty net goal. Not the goal itself, but the fact that Green had him out there defending a lead which gave him the opportunity to shoot on an empty net.
The combo of Jake/Gaudette looks intriguing too. Could be a wonderful third line going forward.
An indicator to me about how far he has come is that empty net goal. Not the goal itself, but the fact that Green had him out there defending a lead which gave him the opportunity to shoot on an empty net.
The combo of Jake/Gaudette looks intriguing too. Could be a wonderful third line going forward.
Result would be the most important thing. He can have defensive awareness, physicality...etc, but tangible result is the most important. As 6th overall pick you HAVE to deliver on ice more consistently, and not just brush by with intangibles.
Last night he played like the way 6th overall should, and if he can keep this up, f***ing fantastic.
stampedingviking
Registered User
DL44
Status quo
Keep Virtanen on the third line... don't need him to play with Pettersson or Horvat unless we are playing from behind or in garbage time of games..
He's too valuable DEFENSIVELY in our bottom 6 right now.. Let him stabilize the bottom 6 till we get Sutter/Beagle back in 4-5 weeks... then if he's still going... we'll have the roster flexibility to move him up without handicapping half our bottom 6.
Consistency is all that's missing.
It's games like this he's capable of.. and if puts em together - Beast.
-This for those dumbfounded and unable to conceptualize the idea of what a Virtanen Beast Mode would look like pre-season.
Laid a couple hits, agitates the opposition, attracts their attention to post whistle scrum, disruptive on the backcheck, stress the D multiple times rushing the wing, earns a breakaway or prime rush chance each game... and then can occasionally unleash and rip one home given some space.
Now be more consistent.
He's too valuable DEFENSIVELY in our bottom 6 right now.. Let him stabilize the bottom 6 till we get Sutter/Beagle back in 4-5 weeks... then if he's still going... we'll have the roster flexibility to move him up without handicapping half our bottom 6.
Consistency is all that's missing.
It's games like this he's capable of.. and if puts em together - Beast.
-This for those dumbfounded and unable to conceptualize the idea of what a Virtanen Beast Mode would look like pre-season.
Laid a couple hits, agitates the opposition, attracts their attention to post whistle scrum, disruptive on the backcheck, stress the D multiple times rushing the wing, earns a breakaway or prime rush chance each game... and then can occasionally unleash and rip one home given some space.
Now be more consistent.
It’s the Bible for many.It's Wiki
Just someone's opinion.
It’s where you learn about hockey.
I don’t think it’s all that simple define a draft bust as someone who didn’t meet expectations for several reasons.
First, which expectations? I expected Bo Horvat to be elite defensively when he was drafted and he is definitely not even close to that so is he a bust in that regard even though he has exceeded expectations offensively? How do you weight those different parts of a players game? Everyone values these things a bit differently.
Then you have to ask, whose expectations? Craig Button was super low on Jake and didn’t even have him going in the 1st round so do we base it on his expectations or the collective average of experts or fans expectations? Do you purely base these expectations on his draft position? I think it’s reasonable to take all of these into consideration to some degree but not go too far with any one in particular.
Another important question is when did you form those expectations? Are they based on information known at the time he was being drafted or do your expectations change every time someone drafted after him has a career season? I think only the former can be considered reasonable.
As these relate to Jake, I think it was reasonable to expect a player who skates well, uses his speed to pressure the puck, throws heavy hits that don’t put him out of position, and beats goalies with a powerful and accurate shot. It’s fair to say he didn’t tick all of those boxes right away but he’s always shown flashes and has steadily progressed to ticking them more often than not at this point in time right now. How often is he supposed to do those things? I expect him to use his speed and physical play on the forecheck consistently, which he is now doing. How often should we expect him to score? It seems like when people criticize Jake or call him a bust they’re only concerned with 1 thing and that’s the number of goals/points he scores and whether he meets expectations in that area so what are reasonable point expectations for him? At the time of his draft I thought he could be a 40 goal scorer with that shot at his peak. Reasonable expectations would probably say 25-30 goals per year is expected of a guy drafted in that spot. Well right now he’s on pace for 29 with bareley any ice time and almost a quarter of the season done and everyone can see this isn’t all Jake has. The potential for growth seems like it’s still as high as it ever was, which is very exciting. On top of all that, and what the “Jake is a bust” crew seem to ignore is that he has been wildly exceeding expectations on the defensive side of the puck. I remember when he was drafted, his defensive game was not something anyone ever talked about or expected, he was supposed to be a pure offensive power forward sniper. This addition to his game alone makes him that much more valuable and has to tip the scales in terms of him not being a bust unless you’re willing to say that Bo Horvat is also a bust because he failed to meet expectations defensively despite exceeding them offensively which no reasonable person should say.
First, which expectations? I expected Bo Horvat to be elite defensively when he was drafted and he is definitely not even close to that so is he a bust in that regard even though he has exceeded expectations offensively? How do you weight those different parts of a players game? Everyone values these things a bit differently.
Then you have to ask, whose expectations? Craig Button was super low on Jake and didn’t even have him going in the 1st round so do we base it on his expectations or the collective average of experts or fans expectations? Do you purely base these expectations on his draft position? I think it’s reasonable to take all of these into consideration to some degree but not go too far with any one in particular.
Another important question is when did you form those expectations? Are they based on information known at the time he was being drafted or do your expectations change every time someone drafted after him has a career season? I think only the former can be considered reasonable.
As these relate to Jake, I think it was reasonable to expect a player who skates well, uses his speed to pressure the puck, throws heavy hits that don’t put him out of position, and beats goalies with a powerful and accurate shot. It’s fair to say he didn’t tick all of those boxes right away but he’s always shown flashes and has steadily progressed to ticking them more often than not at this point in time right now. How often is he supposed to do those things? I expect him to use his speed and physical play on the forecheck consistently, which he is now doing. How often should we expect him to score? It seems like when people criticize Jake or call him a bust they’re only concerned with 1 thing and that’s the number of goals/points he scores and whether he meets expectations in that area so what are reasonable point expectations for him? At the time of his draft I thought he could be a 40 goal scorer with that shot at his peak. Reasonable expectations would probably say 25-30 goals per year is expected of a guy drafted in that spot. Well right now he’s on pace for 29 with bareley any ice time and almost a quarter of the season done and everyone can see this isn’t all Jake has. The potential for growth seems like it’s still as high as it ever was, which is very exciting. On top of all that, and what the “Jake is a bust” crew seem to ignore is that he has been wildly exceeding expectations on the defensive side of the puck. I remember when he was drafted, his defensive game was not something anyone ever talked about or expected, he was supposed to be a pure offensive power forward sniper. This addition to his game alone makes him that much more valuable and has to tip the scales in terms of him not being a bust unless you’re willing to say that Bo Horvat is also a bust because he failed to meet expectations defensively despite exceeding them offensively which no reasonable person should say.
As happy as I am for Jake with regards to last nights game I feel the need to point out that the first goal last night happened largely because Jake was so far behind the play that when the lucky bounce happened he was suddenly on a breakaway. No lucky bounce and he could well have been the goat for a goal against. That nit picking aside he has just played his two best games as a Canuck. Hope it continues...
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