Injury Report: Jake Muzzin - broken hand - out ~4 weeks

[horner]

Who exactly is this "we" you are talking about? There were very few of "us" talking about dropping Barrie for a pick and then doing nothing else. Most fans that wanted to move Barrie wanted the return to include a better defensive dman with term straight up(Stetcher +picks from the Nucks was discussed) and the picks from trading Barrie added to Kap for Manson was a hot topic. The people making a Barrie for anything may or may not be the same people slagging Dubas for not obtaining more D depth, but I would like to see some proof in that regard. It is very easy to make blanket statements without proof and if you say it real fast maybe somebody will think it is intelligent. However, speaking for all the "we" out there, I say pull your horns in or sober up.

I agree

 

[Clark4Ever]

people in TO will explode if they trade Marner. And we will be reminded Marner’s every single assists, goals... for the rest of his career.

It depends on the return. Most knowledgeable fans would understand and some would be happier if we were able to use Marner's value (and cap space) to land a top 4 defenceman and a top 6 winger.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

This is when boys become men. Tim and Rasmus can become cult heroes over the next 3 weeks.

Or Potato Nation will chew them up and spit them out like they have done time and time again.

 

[crump]

This is when boys become men. Tim and Rasmus can become cult heroes over the next 3 weeks.

Different times, but Salming and Turnbull were about the same age.

 

[Leafsfan74]

They didn't do either which is the dumbest thing we could have done

We're going for the playoffs, ok so you go out and get depth just in case something like this happens, or you sell Barrie and don't push for the playoffs and think of the future

Now we're going for the playoffs, got one defensive injury and were either playing Marincin decent minutes or Rosen who has about 20 NHL games under his belt

I'm astounded at how bad the thinking is

I feel the same, for the most part. To me, when you're in a playoff spot, you shouldn't ever be sellers (if you are MLSE), no matter the tough road ahead.

I don't care if he went into the deadline on the bubble and decided to stay pat, assuming he was comfortable with his team. I'm not mad about him NOT trading Barrie without an NHL ready player. In fact, I agree with it. With the injuries, it made no sense if you're not getting a D man in return, as doing so, hurts your playoff shot.

The issue is with them failing to realize that even with a healthy D, they needed help, let alone if someone else went down. It is obviously the worst outcome to lose Muzzin.

This is why I've said, something else must be going on. I don't know, but, I'm not so sure that Dubas has the same freedom he had. Maybe I'm wrong, but, the Canes fiasco that turned the Leafs into an International punchline convinced them "nothing more, we need to watch them for the last 20 games and take stock in the off season".

Long term it is probably the best course, but, I still think the benefits of making the playoffs and at least padding the bottom of their D is worth a low draft pick. Maybe the Canes game changed their minds.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Different times, but Salming and Turnbull were about the same age.

Ah yes, the good ol days

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas picked up a top pair defenseman less than a month before the deadline last year. Then he added another top pair defenseman this summer.

So everyone's big problem seems to be he doesn't wait until the last second and spend assets on guys who will only be on the team for a few months?

One last year clearly was not enough. The two he picked up this past summer have not panned out as expected. Doubt Rosen and Salamaki are answers. Anybody following the Leafs has known for months that the Leafs D needed an upgrade. He clearly has been in the market for a long term RHD but was not able to acquire him.

Took him how long to finally land a capable backup ?? Same with the coveted RHD. Sorry it is FAIL no matter how Dubas fans want to paint it.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

And here I was thinking that Sandin has obvious skills but has been struggling with coverage in his own end and could use more time with Marlies.

 

[ottomaddox]

Which is of course bullshit. 7-8-9 defenseman arent 2nd pairing guys just sitting in the pressbox. They literally are Marincin, Gravel, Sandin etc. Also known as kids or AHL vets, tweeners.

Wait. How many NHL defensemen do we have if everyone were healthy?

 

[FraumBallard]

Dubas picked up a top pair defenseman less than a month before the deadline last year. Then he added another top pair defenseman this summer.

So everyone's big problem seems to be he doesn't wait until the last second and spend assets on guys who will only be on the team for a few months?

Top pair?
Barrie?
Come on.
Horrible Dman.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Top pair?
Barrie?
Come on.
Horrible Dman.

I had no problem with the trade, in fact, I feel Dubas won the trade. I knew what he brought. When I heard his D was weaker than Gardners, I was certain he was going to try and add more back there before the season started. Surely this would have been prudent.

The good news is of course, so many of the salaries were front loaded. So, things certainly should get better on the back end in coming years.

 

[ToneDog]

Holl, Marincin, Rosen, Lily and Dermot were on the 17/18 Marlies Championship D.

Holl joked that they have a Championship D core. Yikes.

 

[Gabriel426]

It depends on the return. Most knowledgeable fans would understand and some would be happier if we were able to use Marner's value (and cap space) to land a top 4 defenceman and a top 6 winger.

More like a top 2 Dman and a top line winger.
Let’s say Richtie is still with the Ducks, I don’t think Richtie and Manson for Marner is a deal where there won’t be uproar. Seth Jones and Foligno, that’s another story.
Marner is look upon as the pride and joy of the Leafs in TO. There will probably be less bad press if they move Matthews than Marner.

 

[Gabriel426]

Holl, Marincin, Rosen, Lily and Dermot were on the 17/18 Marlies Championship D.

Holl joked that they have a Championship D core. Yikes.

So if they lose, that’s all on Barrie, lol

 

[Ratboy]

Sooo it's barrie, holl, Dermott, Sandin, lily, Rosen? Is this the youngest d core in the league? Or is that winnipeg?

 

[mapleleaf979]

Muzzin is the best all round Leafs Dman but everyone else has to step up in his absence. The forwards especially have to come back and swarm the puck. The Leafs have underachieved most of the season minus the run when Keefe was hired. They need to go on a run now, even under manned to show they have some character and will to win.

 

[Kiwi]

Sooo it's barrie, holl, Dermott, Sandin, lily, Rosen? Is this the youngest d core in the league? Or is that winnipeg?

I'm not sure about age but I'd be willing to bet it's the least experienced defensive unit in the NHL, by a distance as well

 

[ToneDog]

I'm not sure about age but I'd be willing to bet it's the least experienced defensive unit in the NHL, by a distance as well

Barrie has more NHL games played in total than the rest in total.

 

[FraumBallard]

I had no problem with the trade, in fact, I feel Dubas won the trade. I knew what he brought. When I heard his D was weaker than Gardners, I was certain he was going to try and add more back there before the season started. Surely this would have been prudent.

The good news is of course, so many of the salaries were front loaded. So, things certainly should get better on the back end in coming years.

I like your optimism.
Hope you're right.

 

[Kiwi]

Barrie has more NHL games played in total than the rest in total.

Yeah, that's going to be a bit of a problem

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Sooo it's barrie, holl, Dermott, Sandin, lily, Rosen? Is this the youngest d core in the league? Or is that winnipeg?

Rosen and Holl aren't that young. 26 and 28 so probably not. Most inexperienced? Maybe.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So he when he signed Tavares in 2018, and knew he had to pay Nylander, Marner and Matthews, his original plan was for Marleau "going somewhere out west"?

Ok, I'll take your word for it, but it doesn't seem well laid out.

You seem to unreasonably expect him to have a 100% accurate step by step laid out plan years in advance, before we were sure what we had in Matthews, Marner, Johnsson, Kapanen, or what they would make, before we had paid Nylander, before Kerfoot, Muzzin, Barrie, etc. were on the team, before we knew what we had in our prospect pool close to graduating, before we knew how the team did, how Marleau did, and what areas needed to be addressed/improved, etc.

I'm sure he had plenty of scenarios set up and discussed, and plenty of scenarios that would have worked (I'm not sure why a mutually understood trade to the Western conference is so ridiculous to you), but when a wrench got thrown it at all at the last possible minute, he still was able to get what he needed for a reasonable cost, like a good GM.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Barrie 548 R 21 PO
Reilly 516 R 20 PO
Muzzin 579 R 57 PO
Ceci 494 R 25 PO
Dermott 151 R 14 PO
Marincin 222 R 6 PO
Rosen 16 R 0 PO
Liljegren 8 R 0 PO
Sandin 24 R 0 PO

You left out Holl.

My point is that there's not a lot of experience left when you remove 3 of 4 Regular NHLers.

Yes, when you remove the 3 most experienced defenseman on the team, you will be less experienced. What's your point? That holds true for every team.

When healthy, their games of experience looks like:

(536)-(569)
(636)-(75)
(165)-(519)
(228)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with having the next two options be two of the best defensive prospects in the world that are ready to play at an NHL level.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Either commit or bail, not do neither

Doing neither is often the right choice for teams, and that's what many end up doing. I know as fans, you want ACTION ACTION ACTION, but this is not the year to be moving further futures, and this is not the year to be selling off everything of value.

We are in a playoff race, currently in a playoff spot, and we have the pieces to go on a deep run if things come together and people stop dropping like flies. You can't deplete your already heavily depleted position that was already your weakness coming into the year, especially for fairly negligible pieces back.

We also have no guarantee of the playoffs with our adversity this year, and we have to face the top 2 teams in the league to advance in the playoffs, in a year in which everything is apparently destined to go wrong. You can't deplete your resources in a year like this with a big window open in front of you.

Not doing much at the trade deadline was the correct move.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I still think the benefits of making the playoffs and at least padding the bottom of their D is worth a low draft pick.

Nobody we would have gotten for a low draft pick is any better than the guys we already have.

It would have meant high draft picks/prospects/roster pieces.