Speculation: Jake Gardiner to Chicago or Minnesota?

[TheScandal89]

I've said it once and ill say it again, hes a good player and has all the tools, his problem is between his eyes.

 

[rokkinman139]

It's almost like defensemen that are leaned on heavily to move the puck and have the puck a lot will make bad turnovers. Crazy! This is exactly the type of conversation that has brewed the Gostisbehere trade talk into a frenzy

 

[FerrisRox]

Gardiner is better than keith easy at this point in his career, and far better than Gus. Gards gets a bad rap for his turnovers, but he's excellent at driving offense and always grades out well above average defensively.

Whats even funnier is his turnover numbers aren't really that bad, people just want to find something to hate.

All things being equal... both guys available for a one year deal at the same term I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single General Manager that would take Jake Gardiner over Duncan Keith, yet you claim Gardiner is "easily" better than him?

That's straight up crazy.

 

[Bazeek]

Suter - Dumba
Gardiner - Spurgeon
Brodin - Pateryn
Seeler

(or switch Brodin and Gardiner)

That is a whole lot of blueline Still, we'd probably have the space for it and if it's a choice between that and overpaying for a UFA forward it might make some sense. We'd have to move a defenseman eventually, but we could bide our time.

Of course that's sort of the situation Carolina found themselves in this year, so making that eventual trade might not be as easy as it seems.

 

[FerrisRox]

I've said it once and ill say it again, hes a good player and has all the tools, his problem is between his eyes.

You think his issue is his nose?

 

[garyturner3]

Whats even funnier is his turnover numbers aren't really that bad, people just want to find something to hate.

Agreed. I still remember having an argument with someone earlier in the year when 3/4 into the season he says to me Gardiner is awful; he's gotta go. Then proceeded to tell me he hasn't watched a single game in over a year. Just highlights. Pretty much sums up the Gardiner treatment. Gardiner makes mistakes. Newsflash: most d-men that play his style of game do. But since it's TO we focus way too much on them and let them snowball into something worse than they are while at the same time ignoring the mountains of evidence that show how much the positive impacts Gardiner has on the game vastly outweigh the negatives.

 

[CraigBillington]

Lol, whoever gets him if they make playoffs will love his blunders.

The anti-Justin Williams

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I'd rather extend Gus for a mil less than what I expect Gardiner to cost.

 

[TheScandal89]

You think his issue is his nose?

 

[Leafs87]

I have a feeling he will be back in Toronto. They will make room for him. Management loves him and he’s much better than the fans give credit for

 

[Morgs]

All things being equal... both guys available for a one year deal at the same term I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single General Manager that would take Jake Gardiner over Duncan Keith, yet you claim Gardiner is "easily" better than him?

That's straight up crazy.

GM's would be wrong then.

 

[Rick C137]

Gardiner is better than keith easy at this point in his career, and far better than Gus. Gards gets a bad rap for his turnovers, but he's excellent at driving offense and always grades out well above average defensively.

Whats even funnier is his turnover numbers aren't really that bad, people just want to find something to hate.

He’s a far better puck moving defensman than Gustafsson? The same Gustafsson that doubled up Gardiners point total and scored 14 more goals last year? Gardiner is far better than him? In Gustafssons first full season he posted numbers all the way across that would have been career numbers for Gardiner.

Gardiner being better than Keith is too silly to even address

 

[FerrisRox]

Gardiner being better than Keith is too silly to even address

I can't think of a single thing Gardiner is better at. Maybe his shot.

Keith's a much better skater, he's more physical, he's a much more cerebral player, his outlet pass is better, his positioning is better, he doesn't play scared, his stamina is top notch.

The only thing that Gardiner might have over Keith is a better shot.

 

[FerrisRox]

GM's would be wrong then.

Yes, you are right and the 31 General Managers are wrong.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yes, you are right and the 31 General Managers are wrong.

Well, the hypothetical stance of the 31 GMs that you made up

 

[Morgs]

He’s a far better puck moving defensman than Gustafsson? The same Gustafsson that doubled up Gardiners point total and scored 14 more goals last year? Gardiner is far better than him? In Gustafssons first full season he posted numbers all the way across that would have been career numbers for Gardiner.

Gardiner being better than Keith is too silly to even address

Points for defenseman is a hilarious way to evaluate them. Gus isn't even as good as Keith is, let alone close to Gardiner lmao.

Also yes, ainec at this point would be an understatement when it comes to Gards > Keith. Both offensively and defensively. I get he hasn't fully broken down yet and is still mostly very effective, but Gardiner is still borderline elite/great at everything.

 

[Morgs]

Yes, you are right and the 31 General Managers are wrong.

Well you made up what the GM's would think (which is incorrect), so if they're hypothetically taking that stance today they're very wrong, yes.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Points for defenseman is a hilarious way to evaluate them. Gus isn't even as good as Keith is, let alone close to Gardiner lmao.

Also yes, ainec at this point would be an understatement when it comes to Gards > Keith. Both offensively and defensively. I get he hasn't fully broken down yet and is still mostly very effective, but Gardiner is still borderline elite/great at everything.

Curious are you related to Jake? Are you actually Jake?

 

[General Disarray]

I have a feeling if he signs somewhere other than Toronto we'll just stop hearing about these blunders altogether that everyone likes to talk about so much. They're drastically overblown in TO because there's a city bylaw that says we've gotta make somebody our scapegoat every year whether it's warranted or not. The treatment this guy gets here is absurd IMO.

Exactly. He doesn't make any more blunders than other D men. Didn't Trouba, a far better D, cost the Jets in the elimination game? Yet no one talks about that

 

[Morgs]

I can't think of a single thing Gardiner is better at. Maybe his shot.

Keith's a much better skater, he's more physical, he's a much more cerebral player, his outlet pass is better, his positioning is better, he doesn't play scared, his stamina is top notch.

The only thing that Gardiner might have over Keith is a better shot.

Well driving play, and defense for one.

For not only this year, but the last 3 years combined:

Similar shot contributions, with Keith having a slight edge in creating attempts, Gardiner far better at gaining the blueline, keith better % at exiting zone but similar total times exiting, Gardiner far better at breaking up plays at his own blueline when targeted.

5v5 P60 2018-19:
Keith - 1.29
Gardiner - 1.01

5v5 P160 2018-19:
Keith - 0.6
Gardiner - 0.64

5v5 P60 2016-19 (3 year sample):
Keith - 0.95
Gardiner - 1.05

5v5 P160 2016-19:
Keith - 0.41
Gardiner - 0.64

 

[Morgs]

Curious are you related to Jake? Are you actually Jake?

Nah, he's just a fantastic player that gets a bad rap. These are the same discussions I've had for years on this website.

And I'll continue defending him even when he goes to a different team (hopefully not) this offseason.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

You think his issue is his nose?

Growing unibrow. He really needs to manscape it at this point

 

[FerrisRox]

Well, the hypothetical stance of the 31 GMs that you made up

I was responding to him hypothetically saying they were all wrong.

And I didn't "make up" that 31 GMs would prefer Duncan Keith, I said "I think" that 31 GM's would prefer Duncan Keith.

So yeah, I "made up" my opinion. Seems like a very odd thing for you to take issue with. Do you not make up your opinions?

 

[FerrisRox]

Well driving play, and defense for one.

View attachment 235743

For not only this year, but the last 3 years combined:
View attachment 235745

Similar shot contributions, with Keith having a slight edge in creating attempts, Gardiner far better at gaining the blueline, keith better % at exiting zone but similar total times exiting, Gardiner far better at breaking up plays at his own blueline when targeted.

View attachment 235747

5v5 P60 2018-19:
Keith - 1.29
Gardiner - 1.01

5v5 P160 2018-19:
Keith - 0.6
Gardiner - 0.64

5v5 P60 2016-19 (3 year sample):
Keith - 0.95
Gardiner - 1.05

5v5 P160 2016-19:
Keith - 0.41
Gardiner - 0.64

Gee, I wonder if the team they each play on factors in at all?

 

[Morgs]

Gee, I wonder if the team they each play on factors in at all?

Lmao, RAPM is isolated stats. It takes into account teammates.

Exits/entries/shot contributions/entry zone defense are heavily influenced by the player no matter their team.

Points are influenced by luck + team, so yes you got 1/10 ways to evaluate a player correct.