Confirmed with Link: Jake Allen (4 years @ $4.35m)

Status
Not open for further replies.

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
124
Temple, Texas
People criticize Armstrong for playing it safe and not taking chances to hit a Homerun. He's indicated that both Brodeur and Corsi felt Allen was the better goalie going forward. Seems like a gamble to make, but if you get 4 years of starting caliber play and growth out of Allen, it could be a great savings and boon for the team.

It's up to Allen now.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Consistently gives up short side goals?

Consistently is out of position when under pressure?

Consistently does poorly in the playoffs?

Hasn't played more than 44 games in an NHL season and will now be a full time starter?

Blues are gambling on his potential that he has yet to hit.

Those are all opinions. I just just as easily say all you have to do is shoot high on Ells and he will give up lots of goals.

Consistently does poorly in the playoffs? He has played 6 total playoff games. And in those 6 games he had almost a 1 goal GAA better than Ells and just about the same SV%. The difference was the Blues were scoring about 2 less goals per game for him.

Ells had never played more than 46 games in a season and you want him to be a starter but 44 is too low? here is the difference, Allen has had ONE season where he had a bad injury where he was to be the starter, Ells has always been a backup playing lesser teams and STILL could not be consistent enough to earn a starting gig.

You know exactly what you get with Ells. A fan favorite career backup that wasn't expected to do much but had one amazing half of a season. He's probably the best backup in the NHL. However he is very inconsistent. Allen has been very consistent and beats quality teams on a regular basis. In fact, he was the first goalie since Hitch was coach to beat CHI in CHI the season before last. Ells has always struggled against good teams until the last half of this season.

I would take Allen over Ells every single day of the week because Ells has not proven to be anything more than a good backup. Allen has proven that he can consistently beat the top teams as a #1. Lets see him do it without getting injured. I don't remember Elliott ever keeping the team in a playoff spot for half a season while the Blues had a NEGATIVE goal differential. Allen did that last season. How soon we forget.
 
Last edited:

BlueDream

Registered User
Aug 30, 2011
25,798
14,220
Wow, yeah. Markstrom's best season in the NHL: 13-14-3, .915 save%, 2.73 GAA. That's also the most games he's played...

The Canucks aren't smart.
 

Evocable Manager

Registered User
Apr 20, 2016
3,837
883
St. Louis
Markstrrom is pretty underrated.
My buddy, a Nucks fan, said he is actually pretty good and got hung out to dry on more than one occasion.
I don't think he is worth the contract but he isn't the worst goalie.
 

BlueOil

"well-informed"
Apr 28, 2010
7,060
4,054
Those are all opinions. I just just as easily say all you have to do is shoot high on Ells and he will give up lots of goals.

Attempting to reduce them to opinions doesn't change the fact that Allen's known as well for short side goals and flopping around out of position under pressure as he is for his puck handling and rebound control.

Consistently does poorly in the playoffs? He has played 6 total playoff games. And in those 6 games he had almost a 1 goal GAA better than Ells and just about the same SV%. The difference was the Blues were scoring about 2 less goals per game for him.

Yes, consistently, at every level of his career, he has turned in subpar to (at most) adequate performances in the playoffs. When the pressure goes up, Jake's stats go down.

Allen has started 8 career playoff games and played in 11 total notching a .902 SV% and a 2.29 GAA. Adequate GAA, subpar SV%.

Allen has never had a GAA of almost 1 GAA better in the playoffs or the regular season. I'm not sure where you find these Allen vs. Elliott stats you claim, but they're inaccurate. The only playoffs Allen had better stats than Elliott was the Minnesota series, which Allen was average in. Allen started all 6 games and Elliott came in for relief in 1 game. Considering Elliott played less than 1 game, it's rather insignificant to compare the stats. It wasn't Allen's fault we lost that series, with more scoring, we might have won it, but not being bad =/= being good. Allen turned in average numbers, which matched his play.

Ells had never played more than 46 games in a season and you want him to be a starter but 44 is too low? here is the difference, Allen has had ONE season where he had a bad injury where he was to be the starter, Ells has always been a backup playing lesser teams and STILL could not be consistent enough to earn a starting gig.

I think Elliott deserves a shot as a starter, considering he's bested Allen consistently the past 3 years. Neither guy stole the position and forced Hitchcock's hand, but Elliott certainly has played better.

Again, can you post the stats proving Elliott played the "lesser teams" and offer some explanation as to how a guy playing 40+ games a year (half the season) is "just a back up"?

The same inconsistency knock goes against Allen. It's like reading Dizee's posts all over again where you crucify one guy for something and ignore it for the other.

You know exactly what you get with Ells. A fan favorite career backup that wasn't expected to do much but had one amazing half of a season. He's probably the best backup in the NHL. However he is very inconsistent. Allen has been very consistent and beats quality teams on a regular basis. In fact, he was the first goalie since Hitch was coach to beat CHI in CHI the season before last. Ells has always struggled against good teams until the last half of this season.

How is Elliott more inconsistent than Allen, but has a better SV%, GAA, more quality starts, more shutouts, more games won, and better playoff stats?

The Chicago statement you keep repeating is just a random stat that has more to do with the team than Jake.

I would take Allen over Ells every single day of the week because Ells has not proven to be anything more than a good backup. Allen has proven that he can consistently beat the top teams as a #1. Lets see him do it without getting injured. I don't remember Elliott ever keeping the team in a playoff spot for half a season while the Blues had a NEGATIVE goal differential. Allen did that last season. How soon we forget.

Elliott has proven so far he's a better choice in net. Allen hasn't proven anything other than he can't steal a job from Elliott. The team didn't decide he was the better choice, Elliott requested to leave and Allen became #1 by default, not based on his play.

Question remains if either can be a starter, much less a good starter in this league. But there's no doubt Elliott earned a chance the Blues wouldn't give him. There's also no doubt the term "career back up" is inaccurate and only intended to muddy the fact that Elliott outplayed Allen.

Time will tell if Allen can do anything more than put in a good regular season or if we're just buying time until Husso or someone else is ready.
 

542365

2018-19 Cup Champs!
Mar 22, 2012
22,328
8,705
Those are all opinions. I just just as easily say all you have to do is shoot high on Ells and he will give up lots of goals.

Consistently does poorly in the playoffs? He has played 6 total playoff games. And in those 6 games he had almost a 1 goal GAA better than Ells and just about the same SV%. The difference was the Blues were scoring about 2 less goals per game for him.

Ells had never played more than 46 games in a season and you want him to be a starter but 44 is too low? here is the difference, Allen has had ONE season where he had a bad injury where he was to be the starter, Ells has always been a backup playing lesser teams and STILL could not be consistent enough to earn a starting gig.

You know exactly what you get with Ells. A fan favorite career backup that wasn't expected to do much but had one amazing half of a season. He's probably the best backup in the NHL. However he is very inconsistent. Allen has been very consistent and beats quality teams on a regular basis. In fact, he was the first goalie since Hitch was coach to beat CHI in CHI the season before last. Ells has always struggled against good teams until the last half of this season.

I would take Allen over Ells every single day of the week because Ells has not proven to be anything more than a good backup. Allen has proven that he can consistently beat the top teams as a #1. Lets see him do it without getting injured. I don't remember Elliott ever keeping the team in a playoff spot for half a season while the Blues had a NEGATIVE goal differential. Allen did that last season. How soon we forget.

LMAO Two time All Star, Jennings Winner, and holder of the highest single season save percentage in the history of the league: Just a backup :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You would taken Allen over Elliott because Elliott hasn't proven anything.....do you say that with a straight face? You mean Jake Allen, the king of disappointments, is proven? The only thing he's proven to be is a playoff choker just like he was his ENTIRE JUNIOR CAREER. WJC? Choke job. Playoffs behind a stacked team? Total choke job. Playoffs in the NHL against a painfully mediocre team? Choke job that cost the team a series.

I'll support Allen because he's been gifted our number 1 job(for like the 3rd time, only to give it back to this career backup you're trashing), but to say he's even close to the level of Brian Elliott is laughable. 100% laughable. He's not going to start a game for the Blues in 2019. Quote me on it. Dig this post up in 2019 and laugh at me if he starts a single game. One of the kids in the system will take his place, and if they don't, we'll have to sign or trade for someone else because Allen simply isn't an NHL starting goaltender. End of story.
 

trevorftw

Voice of Reason
Sep 7, 2009
1,098
288
Saint Louis
Allen is a very good goalie. He definitely stole some games last season. If the injuries strike again, we might be in trouble, but I feel fine about rolling with Allen as a starter.

Allen and Elliott play different styles. I'd honestly prefer a turco-esque goalie that can transition the puck quickly. It makes for more entertaining games. Sometimes he'll get burned playing aggressively, but that comes with the territory.

Elliott was great, but his style of play demanded a huge amount of blocked shots. I'm not saying he wasn't solid, but he wasn't exactly a herculean talent.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
LMAO Two time All Star, Jennings Winner, and holder of the highest single season save percentage in the history of the league: Just a backup :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You would taken Allen over Elliott because Elliott hasn't proven anything.....do you say that with a straight face? You mean Jake Allen, the king of disappointments, is proven? The only thing he's proven to be is a playoff choker just like he was his ENTIRE JUNIOR CAREER. WJC? Choke job. Playoffs behind a stacked team? Total choke job. Playoffs in the NHL against a painfully mediocre team? Choke job that cost the team a series.

I'll support Allen because he's been gifted our number 1 job(for like the 3rd time, only to give it back to this career backup you're trashing), but to say he's even close to the level of Brian Elliott is laughable. 100% laughable. He's not going to start a game for the Blues in 2019. Quote me on it. Dig this post up in 2019 and laugh at me if he starts a single game. One of the kids in the system will take his place, and if they don't, we'll have to sign or trade for someone else because Allen simply isn't an NHL starting goaltender. End of story.
He has never been a starter. Yes, at this point - he is just a backup.

Yes, Elliott has not proven anything more than the fact that he does very well against teams that are not as good as the Blues. AKA - he got LOTS of backup matchups while here. He always struggled against good teams around the league until the last half of last season. People forget what Allen did for this team the first half of last season. He kept the Blues in a playoff spot while they had a negative goal differential.

Some stuff I posted in another thread:

Allen was 22-7-4 his first NHL season. 26-15-3 last season.

Last season:
Dallas - Allen - 3W's Elliott 1W.
Chicago - Allen - 2W's Elliott 1W.
Anaheim - Allen - 2W's Elliott 0W.
Nashville - Allen 3W's Elliott 1W.
Kings - Allen 0W's Elliott 2W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Sharks - Allen 0W's Elliott 1W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Tampa - Allen 1W Elliott 1W
Washington - Allen 1W Elliott 0W
Pittsburgh - Allen 0W Elliott 1W

If you want to go look at each playoff team the Blues played in the past 5 seasons and look at the W's the Blues had and find out which goalie it was, be my guest, here is a link where you can change the year at the top and see who won what game:

http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,040
5,407
St. Louis, MO
So you give Allen excuses for being injured but ignore that Elliott miser just as much time? Talk about hypocrisy 101.

That's ignoring the fact that using wins to prove anything shows just how weak your argument is.
 

ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
1,665
1,038
He has never been a starter. Yes, at this point - he is just a backup.

Yes, Elliott has not proven anything more than the fact that he does very well against teams that are not as good as the Blues. AKA - he got LOTS of backup matchups while here. He always struggled against good teams around the league until the last half of last season. People forget what Allen did for this team the first half of last season. He kept the Blues in a playoff spot while they had a negative goal differential.

Some stuff I posted in another thread:

Allen was 22-7-4 his first NHL season. 26-15-3 last season.

Last season:
Dallas - Allen - 3W's Elliott 1W.
Chicago - Allen - 2W's Elliott 1W.
Anaheim - Allen - 2W's Elliott 0W.
Nashville - Allen 3W's Elliott 1W.
Kings - Allen 0W's Elliott 2W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Sharks - Allen 0W's Elliott 1W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Tampa - Allen 1W Elliott 1W
Washington - Allen 1W Elliott 0W
Pittsburgh - Allen 0W Elliott 1W

If you want to go look at each playoff team the Blues played in the past 5 seasons and look at the W's the Blues had and find out which goalie it was, be my guest, here is a link where you can change the year at the top and see who won what game:

http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm
The same stuff you posted in the other thread that proves nothing. As I said in the other thread, wins are a team stat and mean nothing, especially with no context. You also refuse to provide any context or real stats that backup anything you say, preferring to tell people to do the research themselves.

The burden is on you to provide legitimate proof of what you are claiming. Prove people wrong using legitimate info, not a team stats and "find it yourself." That's asylum style.
 

trevorftw

Voice of Reason
Sep 7, 2009
1,098
288
Saint Louis
This isn't court. No one has to "prove" anything. It certainly helps an argument to have a statistical analysis, but that hardly proves anything. Stats are really troublesome in analyzing goalies.

Both guys are good goalies. I feel like this argument had more relevance when Elliott was still on the team.
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
19,050
16,412
Hyrule
I trust Brodeur and Corsi, If they say Allen is the future, then right now he is, but, I do know sometimes things change, and it's not like it's a horrible contract.
 

Majorityof1

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
8,373
6,917
Central Florida
I trust Brodeur and Corsi, If they say Allen is the future, then right now he is, but, I do know sometimes things change, and it's not like it's a horrible contract.

Good coaches and good players don't necessarily make good scouts. They are probably both looking at his physical tools and saying "If I can just put what I know in that head, man, the things he could do." However, not every play can absorb and utilize that knowledge. Time will tell on Allen. But remember, most people speculated that Broduer wanted Copley brought in. That hasn't exactly worked out like gangbusters.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,911
14,887
Most people forget that early in the season, Allen was carrying us at times. He has that ability in him.
 

Majorityof1

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
8,373
6,917
Central Florida
Most people forget that early in the season, Allen was carrying us at times. He has that ability in him.

Nobody is forgetting that. It is impossible to forget it because an Allen fan tells us about it every time they say anything about Allen. Its not that we forgot that 20 game run. Its just....so what? Elliott has carried this team for stretches too. And Ells carried us when it mattered. Nobody is doubting Allen's natural abilities, or the fact he can be hot and carry a team during the stretches in the regular season. They are doubting his mental fortitude and consistency. Time will tell if he can improve those areas and one day carry us when it matters, or at least not fold like a cheap card table.
 

STL fan in MN

Registered User
Aug 16, 2007
7,132
4,017
I see Army's strategy here - signing him now could very well cost less than waiting and signing him mid-season or next summer if Allen has a good year. However, it's quite the risk as things could go the other way too. For Army's sake, as well as the good of the team, I hope Army's gamble is correct and Allen turns out to be good. Otherwise, he becomes another albatross contract like Lehtera's and the Blues again don't have a good enough goalie.
 

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
124
Temple, Texas
I see Army's strategy here - signing him now could very well cost less than waiting and signing him mid-season or next summer if Allen has a good year. However, it's quite the risk as things could go the other way too. For Army's sake, as well as the good of the team, I hope Army's gamble is correct and Allen turns out to be good. Otherwise, he becomes another albatross contract like Lehtera's and the Blues again don't have a good enough goalie.

If you believe Allen is good enough to be able to trade away Elliott, then you should believe he's good enough to justify signing sooner for less projected money. Its a consistent approach, and he's leaning on the recommendations of his goalie advisers.
 

STL fan in MN

Registered User
Aug 16, 2007
7,132
4,017
If you believe Allen is good enough to be able to trade away Elliott, then you should believe he's good enough to justify signing sooner for less projected money. Its a consistent approach, and he's leaning on the recommendations of his goalie advisers.

Yeah, it's a consistent approach and a logical one too. And it adds some comfort that both Corsi and Brodeur believe in Allen...but that still doesn't make him a guarantee to become a top starter in this league. I like Jake Allen. I really do. I root for him and absolutely hope that he carries this team on his back to a Cup. But if I'm being honest, I also have my doubts with him. He really needs to work on his consistency and I'd like to see him perform better in big games/high pressure situations. Jake can be the guy but he's simply not as blue chip of a bet as say someone like Vasilevsky is all. I really hope this deal becomes a steal for the team as that would mean that Allen is playing like a top level #1. I understand Army's thinking here with this Allen extension...but it doesn't come without risk is all I'm saying.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Yeah, it's a consistent approach and a logical one too. And it adds some comfort that both Corsi and Brodeur believe in Allen...but that still doesn't make him a guarantee to become a top starter in this league. I like Jake Allen. I really do. I root for him and absolutely hope that he carries this team on his back to a Cup. But if I'm being honest, I also have my doubts with him. He really needs to work on his consistency and I'd like to see him perform better in big games/high pressure situations. Jake can be the guy but he's simply not as blue chip of a bet as say someone like Vasilevsky is all. I really hope this deal becomes a steal for the team as that would mean that Allen is playing like a top level #1. I understand Army's thinking here with this Allen extension...but it doesn't come without risk is all I'm saying.

That's my biggest problem with the "he is mentally weak in big games." His GAA last playoffs was 2.20. Which is pretty dang good. Blues were one of the worst scoring teams last playoffs. 2, 1, 1, 0 goals in their losses.
 

STL fan in MN

Registered User
Aug 16, 2007
7,132
4,017
That's my biggest problem with the "he is mentally weak in big games." His GAA last playoffs was 2.20. Which is pretty dang good. Blues were one of the worst scoring teams last playoffs. 2, 1, 1, 0 goals in their losses.

Again, I'm not a huge Allen basher and I think he's very skilled but that 2.20 GAA is the ONLY GAA or SV% of his that is better in the playoffs than his regular season numbers the same season over any level of play in his career. In 7 seasons between the QMJHL, AHL and NHL, his playoff SV% has been worse in the playoffs than the regular season 7 out of 7 times. His GAA has been worse 6 out of 7 times. So yeah, I think it's more than fair to question how he does in pressure situations. That said, I hope he takes this chance by the reins and runs with it.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,705
9,329
Lapland
I still predict:

1. Allen will fall next season around End of November
2. Army have to either acquire another goaltender mid-season or @TDL or
4. Husso get his change to play up, 'cus Allen isn't playing assumpted level.
5. Hude will be our saviour and lead us deep run.
6. Allen's contract will become type of Lehterä, too hesitate and too bad term + AAV.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad