Confirmed with Link: Jake Allen (4 years @ $4.35m)

[BluesTraveller]

If he has a bad season, is injury prone or blows it in the postseason, you expose him in the Expansion Draft.

 

[Alklha]

I don't see it ever being a bad deal. Even if he doesn't progress how we want, we'll be able to move the contract if we decide to go in another direction.

 

[Ranksu]

Btw why this thread was closed, it proves you guys have some knowledge about contracts.

Or did you guys just now closed after extension?

 

[Stealth JD]

The more I think about this contract, the more I realize that Army is in beyond his depth. This is a terrible contract for he Blues...and completely a result of Army having traded away all of his leverage with Elliott to Calgary. Under no circumstances does Jake Allen deserve $4.3M annually and to be handed the #1 starters job. It's stunning how an organization is so willing to hitch their wagons to a guy who has never proven to be anything more than a post-season liability. I feel like we're watching the Titanic leave port to cheering crowds, knowing in hindsight how it's all going to end.

 

[Celtic Note]

I don't dislike him, but he has proven nothing. I think some get blinded by the fact that he has good technique, and it makes them more willing to overlook the fact he gives up more goals than he should.

Hopefully he'll get better in that regard, but he isn't a better goalie than Elliott today.

Allen doesn't have good technique. I don't understand that comment. His game is based on being aggressive and athletic.

 

[David Dennison]

If he has a bad season, is injury prone or blows it in the postseason, you expose him in the Expansion Draft.

There are a lot of good goalies who are going to end up getting exposed in the expansion draft, there is no guarantee they would take Allen, especially if he has a bad year.

But count me among those confused by the whole situation. I understand that Elliott wanted to be the #1 and it sounded like he kind-of-maybe requested a trade if that wasnt going to be the case in STL. But what leverage did he have? And its not like Calgary has given him a new contract (or can he not re-sign with them immediately for some reason?). Was Allen not happy either? I just dont see why you mess with the goaltending situation that has worked well for us the last two seasons.

And Im not terribly concerned about Allen, he is a good goalie playing behind a great defense, he will be fine. But the contract does seem high.

 

[Bluesin7]

I've read like the top 5 threads and the replies just hurt my head. No wonder I don't look at these forums anymore

 

[Ranksu]

Finally Allen becomes #1

 

[LGB51]

A little rich for my taste, but whatever. I still have zero faith in Allen as the goalie of the future, so any deal I'd probably not jump for joy over.

Although much more positive than I feel about him and the prospect of him being the true starter in net for the next half decade, this is close to how I feel about the whole situation.

 

[SteenMachine]

I just hope we figure out which of our next wave of goalie prospects belongs in the NHL sooner than later. I don't want to find out we're in an Allen or bust era for the next 3-5 seasons. I hate the idea of putting pressure on Allen to perform when that seems to be his actual hurdle as a starter.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I've read like the top 5 threads and the replies just hurt my head. No wonder I don't look at these forums anymore

Yeah.

For a team that just enjoyed the best postseason they've had in modern times, the mood is so gloomy.

 

[Majorityof1]

Yeah.

For a team that just enjoyed the best postseason they've had in modern times, the mood is so gloomy.

Well we did lose our starting goaltender and possibly best player this playoffs, our team captain, and a cog in our best playoff line. In turn, we replaced them with the cheapest backup goaltender we could find, and a guy who we jettisoned once before for spare parts just to get him off the team. Also we vocally shopped a valuable yet redundant piece, only to get absolutely nothing for it. Our GM is now talking about how we would be fine if we used him for another cup run, and you can't be scared to lose players to free agency.

So while we did have a good run, there are some things to be gloomy about.

 

[BlueDream]

Well we did lose our starting goaltender and possibly best player this playoffs, our team captain, and a cog in our best playoff line. In turn, we replaced them with the cheapest backup goaltender we could find, and a guy who we jettisoned once before for spare parts just to get him off the team. Also we vocally shopped a valuable yet redundant piece, only to get absolutely nothing for it. Our GM is now talking about how we would be fine if we used him for another cup run, and you can't be scared to lose players to free agency.

So while we did have a good run, there are some things to be gloomy about.

How dare you be realistic about the offseason not being good, this team is winning the Cup next year no matter what!

 

[2 Minute Minor]

How dare you be realistic about the offseason not being good, this team is winning the Cup next year no matter what!

This type of comment is pretty illustrative of why this board is getting hard to read. There is no one making that case.

The tone has become very condescending from several posters. If you post differing opinions, pretty quickly you can be labeled as stupid, pollyanna, ignorant, shilling for the front office, etc. Trying to point out reasoning for Armstrong's moves, or getting into his mindset is taken as blind optimism. Too much of the discussion starts to become about the posting and the posters, rather than about the ideas that the posters are posing. My posting has gone down, and I'll probably be more and more of a lurker from here on out. Maybe it will pick up when the season starts, but I don't find much sense of the community here I used to feel.

It just seems weird to me that after the team finally showed some mental toughness and took a step forward, the tone of the board is so crabby. I agree that the offseason has had some disappointments, but there were also some pretty tough calls (like not to sign Backes for that term) that can be argued either way. But I feel like when I try to look at both sides of these types of issues, the discussion becomes sarcastic and unfriendly.

 

[Celtic Note]

This type of comment is pretty illustrative of why this board is getting hard to read. There is no one making that case.

The tone has become very condescending from several posters. If you post differing opinions, pretty quickly you can be labeled as stupid, pollyanna, ignorant, shilling for the front office, etc. Trying to point out reasoning for Armstrong's moves, or getting into his mindset is taken as blind optimism. Too much of the discussion starts to become about the posting and the posters, rather than about the ideas that the posters are posing. My posting has gone down, and I'll probably be more and more of a lurker from here on out. Maybe it will pick up when the season starts, but I don't find much sense of the community here I used to feel.

It just seems weird to me that after the team finally showed some mental toughness and took a step forward, the tone of the board is so crabby. I agree that the offseason has had some disappointments, but there were also some pretty tough calls (like not to sign Backes for that term) that can be argued either way. But I feel like when I try to look at both sides of these types of issues, the discussion becomes sarcastic and unfriendly.

I think it all revolves around Army and Hitch. The players are fun to watch. I am excited about watching Fabbri grow. I can't wait to see how Schwartz plays when healthy. He made some strides in the playoffs and I hope we see more of that moving forward. I could go on about other players as well.

But that excitement gets squashed far too often by Army and Hitch. They really know how to zap our excitement about our team.

One of my favorite things to analyze is roster construction and player movement. Army makes all of that incredibly frustrating to discuss.

Frankly, I am ready to move on from discussion that revolves around coaching and GM work. It only breeds frustration.

I am drastically lowering my expectations about this team until Army shows us something to feel good about. Instead I am going to spend this season focusing on individual players. It seems the only way to bring more joy out of watching this team with the current management group and I am tired about being pessimistic about the Blues.

 

[Celtic Note]

Allen is one guy that I feel our fans haven't given a fair shake. I appreciate their concerns, but the expectations for goaltending in St.Louis has always been over the top IMO. I think a lot of it stems from people growing up with Cujo at the helm. Not many teams get to watch a hall of fame goalie for such a long period. There are only a few fanbases that got to watch that happen and the peak of hall of fame goaltenders in recent memory is from the early 90's. That type of goaltender is even more rare today.

The exciting thing about Allen to me is all the room he has to learn about positioning. He has largely gotten to the NHL level because of athleticism and an aggressive disposition. Those are not teachable traits. What is teachable is positioning. We have one of the best goaltending coaches in the league, so that offers some promise.

The Allen situation reminds me a lot if Quick in LA. Quick is also prone to poor positioning, but the LA defense (when they are on point) covers up for a lot of his weaknesses. Hitch hasn't done that with our D as it relates to Allen. Now that Allen is the starter, hopefully it forces his strategy to help Allen get the job done.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think it all revolves around Army and Hitch. The players are fun to watch. I am excited about watching Fabbri grow. I can't wait to see how Schwartz plays when healthy. He made some strides in the playoffs and I hope we see more of that moving forward. I could go on about other players as well.

But that excitement gets squashed far too often by Army and Hitch. They really know how to zap our excitement about our team.

One of my favorite things to analyze is roster construction and player movement. Army makes all of that incredibly frustrating to discuss.

Frankly, I am ready to move on from discussion that revolves around coaching and GM work. It only breeds frustration.

I am drastically lowering my expectations about this team until Army shows us something to feel good about. Instead I am going to spend this season focusing on individual players. It seems the only way to bring more joy out of watching this team with the current management group and I am tired about being pessimistic about the Blues.

Allen is one guy that I feel our fans haven't given a fair shake. I appreciate their concerns, but the expectations for goaltending in St.Louis has always been over the top IMO. I think a lot of it stems from people growing up with Cujo at the helm. Not many teams get to watch a hall of fame goalie for such a long period. There are only a few fanbases that got to watch that happen and the peak of hall of fame goaltenders in recent memory is from the early 90's. That type of goaltender is even more rare today.

The exciting thing about Allen to me is all the room he has to learn about positioning. He has largely gotten to the NHL level because of athleticism and an aggressive disposition. Those are not teachable traits. What is teachable is positioning. We have one of the best goaltending coaches in the league, so that offers some promise.

The Allen situation reminds me a lot if Quick in LA. Quick is also prone to poor positioning, but the LA defense (when they are on point) covers up for a lot of his weaknesses. Hitch hasn't done that with our D as it relates to Allen. Now that Allen is the starter, hopefully it forces his strategy to help Allen get the job done.

Agree with both of these points. I like discussing the roster construction, but that always ends in frustration. Allen also gets some unwarranted criticism, mainly due to how Elliott wasn't given a fair chance at times, and fans overcompensate.

 

[Majorityof1]

Agree with both of these points. I like discussing the roster construction, but that always ends in frustration. Allen also gets some unwarranted criticism, mainly due to how Elliott wasn't given a fair chance at times, and fans overcompensate.

I definitely agree with the first point about the enjoyment of discussing rosters, and how Armstrong saps that. As to the second point, I have gone on record that I am biased against Allen due to early and undeserved hype. So I guess I somewhat agree with the second point. I could just never bring myself to say it. So maybe fans should give him a more fair shake. However, that doesn't mean Armstrong made the right moves tying us to him for the next 5 years. At the very least, we should have seen how he looks as the starter before offering up this contract.

The timing just sucked on this contract and it will end up costing us regardless. Armstrong had faith in Allen, so he wanted to lock him up early and get a cheaper deal than waiting until he had a great season and paying more. At the same time, he didn't have enough confidence to offer Allen a long term deal. This deal will have him hit UFA fairly early at 30. So if he doesn't live up to his promise, we could be over paying him in a situation very similar to Lehtera. Or if he does hit, we could potentially lose him, or have to pay out the teeth to keep him beyond 4 years.

All in all, I'd have much rather waited to see how he handled the starter duties. If he was solid this year and progressed, we sign him for 6-7 years at admittedly a higher cap hit. If he floundered, we could try to make other arrangements. As it stands, the best case is for him to hit, but for Husso to really hit within the next 5 years.

 

[KingBran]

The more I think about this contract, the more I realize that Army is in beyond his depth. This is a terrible contract for he Blues...and completely a result of Army having traded away all of his leverage with Elliott to Calgary. Under no circumstances does Jake Allen deserve $4.3M annually and to be handed the #1 starters job. It's stunning how an organization is so willing to hitch their wagons to a guy who has never proven to be anything more than a post-season liability. I feel like we're watching the Titanic leave port to cheering crowds, knowing in hindsight how it's all going to end.

Got any facts / stats to back up that claim? Possibly some career GAA and SV% compared to Elliott? Or compare Allen's GAA last year in the playoffs to Ells' this year?

You will be surprised at what you find. Allen is so much more consistent year to hear and overall just a better goalie.

 

[BlueOil]

Got any facts / stats to back up that claim? Possibly some career GAA and SV% compared to Elliott? Or compare Allen's GAA last year in the playoffs to Ells' this year?

You will be surprised at what you find. Allen is so much more consistent year to hear and overall just a better goalie.

Consistently gives up short side goals?

Consistently is out of position when under pressure?

Consistently does poorly in the playoffs?

Hasn't played more than 44 games in an NHL season and will now be a full time starter?

Blues are gambling on his potential that he has yet to hit.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Blues are hoping to have the Same results the Canadiens did when they traded Halak and put all hope in Price. Yes it obviously worked out but Price had a whole lot of critics in 2010.

 

[Note Worthy]

Blues are hoping to have the Same results the Canadiens did when they traded Halak and put all hope in Price. Yes it obviously worked out but Price had a whole lot of critics in 2010.

That's actually a decent comparison. Not that Allen will become Price, obviously, but a similar situation. A lot of Habs fans were pretty upset when Halak was traded instead of Price after Halak's great playoff run.

 

[PiggySmalls]

That's actually a decent comparison. Not that Allen will become Price, obviously, but a similar situation. A lot of Habs fans were pretty upset when Halak was traded instead of Price after Halak's great playoff run.

Funny thing is Allen and Price has had Strikingly similar stats and awards in juniors, WJC, AHL, and NHL (rookie year).

 

[BlueOil]

Funny thing is Allen and Price has had Strikingly similar stats and awards in juniors, WJC, AHL, and NHL (rookie year).

Except when it came to the playoffs.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Except when it came to the playoffs.

Unfortunately not. But then again neither was Price in his first few series. Ohh well there is always Husso.