Value of: Jacob Trouba (Mod warning OP)

[FireGorton]

Now you're REALLY reaching comparing the last couple of years roster to the one from 12-15, lol. Way to move the goalposts. The Fox and Trouba moves were made with the future in mind, and not necessarily because they're a contender today. Context matters.

In hindsight, getting Fox early was a great move. Who knows if a 20-21 season will even be played for all we know. Getting him here early was hugely beneficial, even more so in hindsight. Yes, you wouldn't trade 2 2nd round picks for Gilroy. But clearly, they scouted Fox more than enough to make it worth the risk and looks like it has paid off.

Predictions often turn out incorrect. We simply don't know if Heinola was gonna be the pick or not.

Sadly, there is also no use debating someone who's likely the only Rangers fan (if you're even really a Rangers fan) who believes they were aiming for a deep cup run last season, lol. If you truly thought the Rangers were winning the cup last season, then I can now why you want Gorton fired lmao. Your delusions are your problem.

The reality is, Gorton built that great Bruins squad from over a decade ago, and he's more than likely going to build this hopeful elite Rangers squad that'll contend for the cup in a couple of years.

Moving goalposts you mean like trying to justify trading assets for players who will be available in a year. Trouba was a UFA in one season as was Fox so saying for the future doesn’t make sense. The Rangers did backchanneling to find out both guys would sign. I get it get them sooner than later mentality but all that experience with Rangers does nothing since they changed D coaches so they are starting from scratch anyway.

Fox knew Lindgren and go together like pb&J from gold medal WJC team. Trouba had 3 different partners and will be using a 4th next season so not sure it matters they overpaid to bring him in a year sooner.

I am a Rangers fan and I wasn’t expecting deep cup run but the cult of Gorton thought they would. When that didn’t happen they move the goal posts and say we’re rebuilding. Reminds me of 17 offseason when people said bravo Jeff for signing Shatty(blocked Tony), bought out G(signed Smitty to replace) and how the D will be great. Trade Staal with a 2nd because of the dumb Shatty buyout(compounding mistakes) only to replace him with JJ who more than likely will partner with Trouba. People will blame Martin and JD before the golden boy gets blame for anything.

Speaking of delusions Gorton didn’t build that Bruins roster lmao. He was a piece of it.Claiming he traded Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin gtfo. Chara signing sounds more like Petey. I think he wanted Chara but Petey was coming from that organization like JD(Panarin) from Columbus. He was the assistant GM for most of those players and yes he deserves credit but funny no one gives him credit for McIllrath. It’s the Rangers philosophy you know Trouba,Scheinder. Tanner Glass or Michael Haley.

 

[Kranix]

and btw, kinda obnoxious to imply people who disagree are not serious or sane

Yes that's my strategy to win arguments.

 

[FireGorton]

"Projected to draft". Give it up already. Yeah, that definitely means anything with our organization. Guess you missed the last 10 years. We're not saying we love the Trouba move, or the cap hit. And most of us are aware that a lot of pieces fell into Gorton's lap. But you really seem stuck on this one move as a reason Gorton should be canned.

Eric Staal,Brendan Smith, Lias,Shattenkirk, constantly burying Tony D for (Shatty,McQuaid) during a rebuild. Trading Ryan Graves so he could play older player Rob O’Gara after officially announcing a rebuild. The hiring of Lindy Ruff and forcing him on two staffs.Hires Martin and signs Jack Johnson after trading a 2nd(M Staal) for cap space reasons(Smith or Shatty)

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Moving goalposts you mean like trying to justify trading assets for players who will be available in a year. Trouba was a UFA in one season as was Fox so saying for the future doesn’t make sense. The Rangers did backchanneling to find out both guys would sign. I get it get them sooner than later mentality but all that experience with Rangers does nothing since they changed D coaches so they are starting from scratch anyway.

Fox knew Lindgren and go together like pb&J from gold medal WJC team. Trouba had 3 different partners and will be using a 4th next season so not sure it matters they overpaid to bring him in a year sooner.

I am a Rangers fan and I wasn’t expecting deep cup run but the cult of Gorton thought they would. When that didn’t happen they move the goal posts and say we’re rebuilding. Reminds me of 17 offseason when people said bravo Jeff for signing Shatty(blocked Tony), bought out G(signed Smitty to replace) and how the D will be great. Trade Staal with a 2nd because of the dumb Shatty buyout(compounding mistakes) only to replace him with JJ who more than likely will partner with Trouba. People will blame Martin and JD before the golden boy gets blame for anything.

Speaking of delusions Gorton didn’t build that Bruins roster lmao. He was a piece of it.Claiming he traded Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin gtfo. Chara signing sounds more like Petey. I think he wanted Chara but Petey was coming from that organization like JD(Panarin) from Columbus. He was the assistant GM for most of those players and yes he deserves credit but funny no one gives him credit for McIllrath. It’s the Rangers philosophy you know Trouba,Scheinder. Tanner Glass or Michael Haley.

Not so much justifying, but understanding where they're coming from. Easy to say "just wait for them in a year", I've been guilty of that myself.

If certain other Ranger fans were expecting a deep cup run, then that's their problem as well. The Rangers have clearly not wanted to bottom out, but at least remain competitive while rebuilding. They've done a mostly great job of it.

I don't really like the JJ signing, but I'm also not gonna go crazy over a guy they signed for 1 year at 1.15 mil. If a young d-man beats him out, he won't play. If nobody can beat him out, that's potentially an issue.

Okay, so Gorton helped build and was a piece of it. Semantics.

Also, Tanner Glass was a clear AV move.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Eric Staal,Brendan Smith, Lias,Shattenkirk, constantly burying Tony D for (Shatty,McQuaid) during a rebuild. Trading Ryan Graves so he could play older player Rob O’Gara after officially announcing a rebuild. The hiring of Lindy Ruff and forcing him on two staffs.Hires Martin and signs Jack Johnson after trading a 2nd(M Staal) for cap space reasons(Smith or Shatty)

Yeah, I never quite understood the Eric Staal trade. I'll give that one. For me, it never made sense at that point in time.

Brendan Smith was always a capable top 4 d-man with Detriot, and he played well when he was traded here. Seemed like he clearly mailed it in after he got the contract and resigned.

Lias was a bust of a pick and didn't work out (at least here), it happens. Even great teams pick busts. The Rangers also wanted EP in that draft, he was their target. Hopefully, Kravtsov, Chytil, Kakko, and Laf make up for the Lias pick.

Shattenkirk signed here for way under market value. That was a good move at the time. Didn't work out between the injuries he had mostly, but I don't regret that signing at all.

Ryan Graves wasn't quite the same player here he was in Colorado. Trading him seemed to light a fire under him. I also think he's mostly still a product of Makar and based on what a lot of Avs fans think.

I've already mentioned the JJ move. Maybe Martin knows something we don't.

 

[FireGorton]

Not so much justifying, but understanding where they're coming from. Easy to say "just wait for them in a year", I've been guilty of that myself.

If certain other Ranger fans were expecting a deep cup run, then that's their problem as well. The Rangers have clearly not wanted to bottom out, but at least remain competitive while rebuilding. They've done a mostly great job of it.

I don't really like the JJ signing, but I'm also not gonna go crazy over a guy they signed for 1 year at 1.15 mil. If a young d-man beats him out, he won't play. If nobody can beat him out, that's potentially an issue.

Okay, so Gorton helped build and was a piece of it. Semantics.

Also, Tanner Glass was a clear AV move.

AV had input but Haley getting two shots at the club with 7 years in between though?He got more time the second time around than he did under Torts. JJ has a spot regardless because of Martin and his system. Brendan Smith will have a spot in the lineup because management believes they have to justify him.

 

[FireGorton]

Yeah, I never quite understood the Eric Staal trade. I'll give that one. For me, it never made sense at that point in time.

Brendan Smith was always a capable top 4 d-man with Detriot, and he played well when he was traded here. Seemed like he clearly mailed it in after he got the contract and resigned.

Lias was a bust of a pick and didn't work out (at least here), it happens. Even great teams pick busts. The Rangers also wanted EP in that draft, he was their target. Hopefully, Kravtsov, Chytil, Kakko, and Laf make up for the Lias pick.

Shattenkirk signed here for way under market value. That was a good move at the time. Didn't work out between the injuries he had mostly, but I don't regret that signing at all.

Ryan Graves wasn't quite the same player here he was in Colorado. Trading him seemed to light a fire under him. I also think he's mostly still a product of Makar and based on what a lot of Avs fans think.

I've already mentioned the JJ move. Maybe Martin knows something we don't.

I remember Smith trade and Wings fans said season Smith sucks but playoffs Smith is great. I believe the refs let more go in the playoffs so with his play style he is better in the playoffs. I won’t even argue why they didn’t just give a 3rd like Bruins did for Holden two years ago despite performing better. Smith was scratched during 16/17 season at points though.

I get it he identifies talent like EP and Makar but why not select Vilardi whom I wanted. RHC are special in the league.He had injury concerns but Lias was “safe”. I’m convinced Blake tossed a 2nd for Lias as a thank you for Rangers passing on Vilardi because the rumor was Kings would pick him so Gorton couldn’t draft down.

Signing Shattenkirk when you are rebuilding was not smart move when you had a young Tony D who fills the same role. Not a bad contract at all but that to me was like Yanks bringing in Stanton type move.They traded Stepan to have “NHL ready” Lias take over with Desharnais being a insurance.

Ryan Graves was having a bad year but the year before he was great. I still say it’s because the organization as a whole hasn’t cared about the farm from 14/15 season on until JD arrived. I agree about him being a product of Makar but that doesn’t make Trouba move look good since he couldn’t make Smith,Skjei,Hajek look good. He needs a puck moving LHD to look good if you want my opinion as he is better as a stay at home Dman with a bomb. I wish Quinn Hughes dropped as he was the perfect fit but Kravs is looking good right now.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

This needs to be on the main board?

 

[bernmeister]

This needs to be on the main board?

Yes, it does.
Aside from free speech on principle, it is to invite discussion about value of JT from beyond Ranger community. That is best profiled in this forum.

If your introverted [as opposed to extroverted] perspective is uneasy with waiting for this thread to do the routine thing and die a natural death at the appropriate time, feel free not to force yourself to be uncomfortable and those of us who wish to further discussion will carry on without you.

 

[TBF1972]

Yes, it does.
Aside from free speech on principle, it is to invite discussion about value of JT from beyond Ranger community. That is best profiled in this forum.

If your introverted [as opposed to extroverted] perspective is uneasy with waiting for this thread to do the routine thing and die a natural death at the appropriate time, feel free not to force yourself to be uncomfortable and those of us who wish to further discussion will carry on without you.

i assume the ranger community normally operates in environment without gravity.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Yes, it does.
Aside from free speech on principle, it is to invite discussion about value of JT from beyond Ranger community. That is best profiled in this forum.

If your introverted [as opposed to extroverted] perspective is uneasy with waiting for this thread to do the routine thing and die a natural death at the appropriate time, feel free not to force yourself to be uncomfortable and those of us who wish to further discussion will carry on without you.

So, I guess the Constitution says you can have your private discussion about a player who has zero chance of being traded in the Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk subforum. Oh well, at least you are not peddling Strome or DeAngelo in here.

 

[larmex99]

So, I guess the Constitution says you can have your private discussion about a player who has zero chance of being traded in the Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk subforum. Oh well, at least you are not peddling Strome of DeAngelo in here.

OR you could just not read it and go back to reading all of the pointless “'Leafs Have a Foolish Offer For Your Best Player” posts.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

OR you could just not read it and go back to reading all of the pointless “'Leafs Have a Foolish Offer For Your Best Player” posts.

I guess the bra identifies me as a Leaf fan. I am not, they are better than Ranger fans, in that they keep this kind of thread in their own forum.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

OR you could just not read it and go back to reading all of the pointless “'Leafs Have a Foolish Offer For Your Best Player” posts.

He’s an Isles fan.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Because any GM would have been able to sign Trouba for 4.5 (or less) million during July 2019, which is less than he was making in 2018.

Go check out the threads before he signed his contract and you'll see that there are many, including myself that said he's worth 5M max

 

[Guffman]

Yes, it does.
Aside from free speech on principle, it is to invite discussion about value of JT from beyond Ranger community. That is best profiled in this forum.

If your introverted [as opposed to extroverted] perspective is uneasy with waiting for this thread to do the routine thing and die a natural death at the appropriate time, feel free not to force yourself to be uncomfortable and those of us who wish to further discussion will carry on without you.

Many threads get locked when it veers off of actually proposing a trade (y’know, the intent of the sub-forum).

Your “free speech” argument is absurd in the context of this private forum.

 

[Guffman]

Go check out the threads before he signed his contract and you'll see that there are many, including myself that said he's worth 5M max

That would have been a terrible take. He would be a steal at $5M... and then perhaps his contract would have value and thus more interesting to talk about in terms of trades.

But $8M?! That was ridiculous.

 

[bernmeister]

Many threads get locked when it veers off of actually proposing a trade (y’know, the intent of the sub-forum).

Your “free speech” argument is absurd in the context of this private forum.

Sorry to shatter your illusion, poster who has a tag line in his/her avatar "I am always right" -- your words, not mine.

While the board itself is not an unlimited universe, all of it is always open to both members and guests -- i.e., 100% of possible participants at any given time. Only content serves to presort topic allocation.

Content often may be viewed as the general and the specific. A player may be held in one regard by fans of the team for which he currently plays, while possibly viewed in another light by fans of the rest of the league.

Comments contributing to identifying Trouba's production, measured against the given of his salary, establishes his value. Understanding the consensus of his value, and any shading in that consensus, is useful and pertinent to this thread.

The fact that JT is currently reluctant to waive except possibly to DET is not a derailing variable. Upon information and belief, the dominant [tho not nec sole consideration] is where his woman is based and the impact that has in advancing her medical career. As that career moves along, further opportunities may emerge, potentially softening this hard line. Maybe, maybe not, but speculation remains fair game.

As to the "absurd" comment, there is a general principle applying which repudiates you. The Constitution, called the words we [Americans] live by, illustrates that it is ever improved by a liberal, extroverted, expanding of focus, not the opposite conservative view of restricting liberty. The proof of this is how an amendment establishing Prohibition was enacted, and then forced to be repealed.

To which I symbolically raise a glass and toast free speech to all who care to join me.

 

[Guffman]

The fact that JT is currently reluctant to waive except possibly to DET is not a derailing variable. Upon information and belief, the dominant [tho not nec sole consideration] is where his woman is based and the impact that has in advancing her medical career. As that career moves along, further opportunities may emerge, potentially softening this hard line. Maybe, maybe not, but speculation remains fair game.

I would argue that this is certainly an extremely pertinent variable. A player who is only in the second year of a seven contract, who dismissed signing with any other team last offseason, and has a NMC to ensure he remains, would not reasonably be contemplating being traded elsewhere in the short or medium term.

Any speculation to that in the short or medium term would be fanciful nonsense. As such, discussing his performance relative to his contract in determining value might me a quaint discussion for the NYR board but has no merit in a trade subforum where there is a near zero percent chance of him being traded for a while.

Sorry to shatter your illusion, poster who has a tag line in his/her avatar "I am always right" -- your words, not mine.

Interestingly enough, my previous tag line location was “not on the Jets forum”. It was viewed as being “passive aggressive” by certain people that would merit a permanent ban if I changed it back. As you can see, the higher ups are very keen on where I post and where I do not and for what reasons. Your mantra about free speech is amusing but not exercisable here, at least not in my case.

To which I symbolically raise a glass and toast free speech to all who care to join me.

Not all are allowed to raise a glass to that because of hurt feelers.

 

[SlafCaufield]

Trouba
2nd round pick (20220



Tatar (re-signed)
Norlinder
3rd round pick (2021)
3rd round pick (2022)

 

[rubikscube]

Trouba
2nd round pick (20220



Tatar (re-signed)
Norlinder
3rd round pick (2021)
3rd round pick (2022)

Trouba is overpaid and has no offensive skill besides lucking into one season of PP1 time with the Jets which he parlayed into his current contract.
But this is absolutely awful for the Rangers lol

 

[cwede]

Trouba
2nd round pick (20220



Tatar (re-signed)
Norlinder
3rd round pick (2021)
3rd round pick (2022)

Nothing there to motivate NYR.
Not desperate for Cap Relief,
or needing Tatar.

And for last few years, hasnt story been Habs are one of few teams w greater D needs on L than R?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I could buy the argument that Trouba isn't much more valuable than a cap dump right now. However, the Rangers don't need or want Tatar. And even if you got rid of him from the trade, I don't see the current motivation for the Rangers to sell low on Trouba.

He wasn't as good as expected last season. He's only 26. He's right in his prime. He should not already be on the decline, and even if he doesn't get better than last season, his contract won't look that bad those last few years. It ends at age 32, his NMC clause is gone at age 29, and he only has a modified no-trade the last few years. Also, his actual dollars is 2M per year lower the last two years of his contract due to the signing bonus. And even if the cap hit seems high now with a flat cap, if the league is going to ever recover, you'd figure that 8M per year looks a lot better towards the end of the contract than it does now. We are paying a high price for his absolute prime years, and if revenue starts going up again, we'll start paying a lower percentage of the cap to him when his game should start to drop off. It's a well structured contract for the team.

 

[10Ducky10]

He isn't worth Pionk and Heinola that's for sure...

 

[robertocarlos]

He's as dumb as a bag of hammers and in hockey dumb is not good. He is good at pounding nails and to him everything on the ice is a nail.