Value of: Jacob Trouba at the draft

[WingsMJN2965]

The notion that Patrick couldn't return Trouba is downright f***ing hilarious.

 

[JetsHomer]

The notion that Patrick couldn't return Trouba is downright ****ing hilarious.

The notion that a mediocre 30 point forward would return a 50 point defenseman just because the forward is young is hilarious

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Either way you look at Trouba is a one year rental. Patrick has five years of NHL control for the Flyers. Patrick for Trouba seems like an overpay by the Flyers. With the cap situation and need at centre, Patrick for Trouba I think would be accepted by the Jets.
Now if the Jets truly feel they need Trouba for one more year for a Cup run, I understand why the Jets would not do the deal. But don't think the Jets would get more in return by any team for Trouba with no big money being returned to Jets as a one on one deal for Patrick.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

The notion that a mediocre 30 point forward would return a 50 point defenseman just because the forward is young is hilarious

You don't need to reply bud, your name gave it away.

 

[1865]

The dman who nearly outscored your forwards combined 2 year point total?

A 30 point forward doesn't return you a 50 point Dman, 'potential' be damned

It wouldn't, because we aren't moving Patrick.

Mediocre 30 point forward. Just admit you don't watch Patrick and move on. I don't know everything about Jets players but i also wouldn't leap headfirst into an argument about them. HF in a nutshell.

 

[JetsHomer]

You don't need to reply bud, your name gave it away.

I don't know what my name has to do with the objective fact that a 50 point 24 year old top pairing Dman is more valuable than a mediocre forward whose only claim to fame was a strong junior season 4 years ago?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I don't know what my name has to do with the objective fact that a 50 point 24 year old top pairing Dman is more valuable than a mediocre forward whose only claim to fame was a strong 16 year old junior season

1. Pending RFA who's clearly riding it out to UFA.
2. 20 years old.

If you don't get that, you can't be helped. Or would you have also said MacKinnon (38 in 64) sucks because of his sophomore season? Or Barkov? (36 in 71) Or Larkin? (32 in 80) Or Pastrnak? (26 in 51) Or Huberdeau? (28 in 69) Or Couturier? (15 in 46) Or SCHEIFELE. (34 in 63)

 

[mondo3]

If TB gets knocked out in 4 due to both Stamkos under-performing and TB's defense lacking in the playoffs, is there any chance he would be available for Trouba? TB has tons of scoring, so they could probably afford to lose one of their offensive players to improve their D. Salary wise it would be probably save TB a million or two a year. Obviously Stamkos has more value though. Is there any add that would make a deal make sense? I think the Jet's would prefer Point due to a lower salary, but I think he is TB's future and is probably unavailable.

 

[Broad Street Buddies]

I don't know what my name has to do with the objective fact that a 50 point 24 year old top pairing Dman is more valuable than a mediocre forward whose only claim to fame was a strong junior season 4 years ago?

Aren’t you the guy who wouldn't made Roslovic available for Stone?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

If TB gets knocked out in 4 due to both Stamkos under-performing and TB's defense lacking in the playoffs, is there any chance he would be available for Trouba? TB has tons of scoring, so they could probably afford to lose one of their offensive players to improve their D. Salary wise it would be probably save TB a million or two a year. Obviously Stamkos has more value though. Is there any add that would make a deal make sense? I think the Jet's would prefer Point due to a lower salary, but I think he is TB's future and is probably unavailable.

Probably not very likely Tampa's trading away Stamkos for a defender when they already have Hedman, McDonagh, and Sergachev.

His contract is just too good. Trouba may cost nearly as much, and for a team that'll have some incoming cap issues. (Point, Vasi, Sergachev)

 

[JetsHomer]

Aren’t you the guy who wouldn't made Roslovic available for Stone?

The Jets wouldn't have been able to re-sign Stone and Roslovic's ELC is absolutely needed to help with the upcoming cap crunch next year?

Not exactly comparable situations. If the Jets had a ton of spare capspace I certainly would have moved Roslovic for Stone

 

[Keystone]

The Jets wouldn't have been able to re-sign Stone and Roslovic's ELC is absolutely needed to help with the upcoming cap crunch next year?

Not exactly comparable situations. If the Jets had a ton of spare capspace I certainly would have moved Roslovic for Stone

25 point 3rd/4th line winger? For 1st line possible selke winning mark stone? Surely you jest or does contract and potential actually factor in when you decide it does.

 

[JetsHomer]

25 point 3rd/4th line winger? For 1st line possible selke winning mark stone? Surely you jest or does contract and potential actually factor in when you decide it does.

The Jets can't trade Roslovic cause they need his 800k cap hit playing in the top 9 next year. In a vacuum even a rental Stone is worth more than 2 Roslovic's, but with the salary cap reality Roslovic is worth far more to the Jets than he is to other teams

 

[Joe Hallenback]

So where does Patrick fit into the Flyers going forward? I mean is he going to get 1/2 minutes with top line wingers? Is he already getting that. Trouba too me has proven to be a big minute D man this year when Buff went down.

Would you replace Patrick with Frost then?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I like how @JetsHomer conveniently skipped the post listing all the other star forwards with comparable sophomore seasons to Patrick.

 

[JetsHomer]

I like how @JetsHomer conveniently skipped the post listing all the other star forwards with comparable sophomore seasons to Patrick.

You want I should make a list of all the 30 point sophomore scorers that didn't become stars?

Btw you have Scheifele's rookie season on there not his sophomore. I also like that you include Mackinnon, who had more points as an 18 year old rookie than Patrick has in 2 seasons at ages 19 and 20

 

[WingsMJN2965]

You want I should make a list of all the 30 point sophomore scorers that didn't become stars?

From 2000-2015 there have been two forwards drafted in the top 2 that haven't hit 65 points in his career.

Btw you have Scheifele's rookie season on there not his sophomore. I also like that you include Mackinnon, who had more points as an 18 year old rookie than Patrick has in 2 seasons at ages 19 and 20

Oh right... That's because Scheifele's rookie year was his D+3.

Keep digging that hole, bud.

 

[Hunter368]

I like how @JetsHomer conveniently skipped the post listing all the other star forwards with comparable sophomore seasons to Patrick.

I’ll let JH speak for himself, we have nothing to do with each other.

From my POV Patrick was drafted 2OA in a very weak top of the draft......in a strong draft Patrick would fallen in the draft no doubt in my mind. I don’t think many would disagree. Even at the draft most hockey experts I listened to stated his top end potential is a 2C......then I didn’t disagree and today I still say that’s probably accurate. He’s also had some health issues both in the minors and nhl that concern me. I’m certainly not saying he isn’t a nice or decent prospect and I have absolutely no doubt he will have a good nhl career......but straight up I wouldn’t trade a signed/trade & sign Trouba for him. You no doubt will disagree which is fine, but take the sure/proven thing that’s still young over the unproven potential. Plus centre is only a secondary need imo for the Jets, also lessens my interest in him. PS: I’m not trying to sell you or convince you of anything just explaining my pov

 

[Allhailtheleafs]

Trouba signed with term is worth more then Patrick now. . . Trouba doesn't have term on his contract. No way does 1 year of trouba get you the potential of Patrick long termterm. Would be foolish , only reason Philly would even trade Patrick is cause thier depth at center . Which is also over rated

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I’ll let JH speak for himself, we have nothing to do with each other.

From my POV Patrick was drafted 2OA in a very weak top of the draft......in a strong draft Patrick would fallen in the draft no doubt in my mind. I don’t think many would disagree. Even at the draft most hockey experts I listened to stated his top end potential is a 2C......then I didn’t disagree and today I still say that’s probably accurate. He’s also had some health issues both in the minors and nhl that concern me. I’m certainly not saying he isn’t a nice or decent prospect and I have absolutely no doubt he will have a good nhl career......but straight up I wouldn’t trade a signed/trade & sign Trouba for him. You no doubt will disagree which is fine, but take the sure/proven thing that’s still young over the unproven potential. Plus centre is only a secondary need imo for the Jets, also lessens my interest in him. PS: I’m not trying to sell you or convince you of anything just explaining my pov

I don't disagree that it was a weak draft or that he'd be lower in better drafts at all, but sourcing his D+2 stats is ridiculous logic, when players such as MacKinnon, Barkov, Pasta, Larkin, and Scheifele had similar stats at the same age.

Especially when you consider Trouba's actions over the last few years have indicated he's likely either determined to hit UFA or determined to sign in a specific location. And if it's a specific location, PHI has never been that rumored destination. (DET or FLA)

 

[JetsHomer]

From 2000-2015 there have been two forwards drafted in the top 2 that haven't hit 65 points in his career.

Oh right... That's because Scheifele's rookie year was his D+3.

Keep digging that hole, bud.

There is more to player evaluation than looking where a player was drafted. Like there actual results playing hockey, for one

Scheifele after his rookie year would not have been worth a 24 year old Dman coming off a 50 point year, and Patrick isn't worth that now.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

There is more to player evaluation than looking where a player was drafted. Like there actual results playing hockey, for one

Scheifele after his rookie year would not have been worth a 24 year old Dman coming off a 50 point year, and Patrick isn't worth that now.

Apparently Barkov wouldn't have been either.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't disagree that it was a weak draft or that he'd be lower in better drafts at all, but sourcing his D+2 stats is ridiculous logic, when players such as MacKinnon, Barkov, Pasta, Larkin, and Scheifele had similar stats at the same age.

Especially when you consider Trouba's actions over the last few years have indicated he's likely either determined to hit UFA or determined to sign in a specific location. And if it's a specific location, PHI has never been that rumored destination. (DET or FLA)

You’ll notice I used the words “probably” in my post.......meaning certainly room I might be wrong about Patrick but nothing I’ve seen to date would indicate that.

I totally agree Trouba is likely heading out of the Peg........but how he’s leaving is very open or undetermined to-date. Options:

- Trouba signs long term with the Jets this summer. Unlikely as we both stated, just opinions but we agree.

- Trouba is traded via sign & trade or more likely trade & sign agreed to beforehand. This increases his value significantly over a one year rental/gamble. Bobby Mac has stated on the radio in the past this is a possibility.

- Trouba goes to arbitration gets one year deal and is allowed to walk after next year assuming he still won’t resign long term. Jets use him as their own rental, for one more big push for the cup.

- Least likely option imo is he’s traded as a one year rental which would end any hopes of another cup run for the Jets. It isn’t logical to trade him for less value then we would have to pay to replace him with another rental top pairing D. Jets are better off keeping him as our own rental if a deal couldn’t be worked out beforehand via trade/sign.

Just my opinion

 

[Brock Radunske]

Depends on what he re-signs for.
5.5-6 mill Trouba will get a boatload.
8 mill Trouba will get a fraction of that.

 

[captainpaxil]

In 5 years trouba has 2 complete seasons and cracked 35 pts once yet he wants a guaranteed top pairing spot and top pairing money. As is the case with most 25 year olds hes still more potential than production. If hed take 6 hed be a jet but at 7+ i don't think they're the only team that balks. Theres a decent chance he winds up an overpaid 2nd pairing guy wherever he goes. The team willing to take that chance will pay accordingly