Player Discussion Jacob Markstrom

[Zippgunn]

Goal was an Ovie special - one timer from the face-off dot. I guess you're saying that the gazillion PP goals that Ovie scores are weak goals. And while Schiefle is not quite in the same stratosphere as Ovie, he's still one of the best snipers in the league. I guarantee you, he scores that goal from that spot 9 times out of 10.

What does my post have to do with Ovechkin?
My point is/was:
Marky let in a stoppable goal on a great shot with 2 minutes left in a tie game. Everybody cut him slack.
Nilsson let in a late goal on a seeing eye (but also stoppable )shot from the best player on the best team in the league. Almost everybody here roasted him for it.
Neither of these guys are the answer but I feel that Nilsson is at lest the equal of Marky if not superior. Certainly Team Sweden and the IIHF think so. Once Marky starts playing the hard teams more often his numbers (and performance) will come back to their usual spot near the bottom of the league's starters. Maybe they really are showcasing him for a trade. Me, I wouldn't say no...

 

[Guardian452]

What does my post have to do with Ovechkin?
My point is/was:
Marky let in a stoppable goal on a great shot with 2 minutes left in a tie game. Everybody cut him slack.
Nilsson let in a late goal on a seeing eye (but also stoppable )shot from the best player on the best team in the league. Almost everybody here roasted him for it.
Neither of these guys are the answer but I feel that Nilsson is at lest the equal of Marky if not superior. Certainly Team Sweden and the IIHF think so. Once Marky starts playing the hard teams more often his numbers (and performance) will come back to their usual spot near the bottom of the league's starters. Maybe they really are showcasing him for a trade. Me, I wouldn't say no...

And did you actually read what I wrote?

Scheifle's goal is basically the play that Ovie scores all his PP goals. 3 tape-to-tape cross ice passes ending up in a 25 footer from a right-handed shooter at the left face off spot. An elite goal scorer is going to score that goal regardless of the goalie.

 

[Melvin]

Markstrom has been terrific all year. He's been getting too much **** for letting goals in early. Save percentage is so strongly affected by defensemen, and ours suck.

I firmly believe that he's capable of a Vezina level season or two like Dubnyk had after getting the **** out of Edmonton. Hopefully that can happen here with some upgrades in front of him.

He's such a weird goalie who routinely irritates fans by letting in early goals and or "soft goals," and can seemingly never get a shutout, but at the end of the day just consistently stops 91-92% of shots, which is all that really matters.

I wonder if there is another goaltender in the league with a lower percentage of starts where he either gets a shutout or gets the hook. Markstrom almost never gets either. In that sense, he is the most consistent goalie I can ever recall seeing.

 

[Canucks1096]

He's such a weird goalie who routinely irritates fans by letting in early goals and or "soft goals," and can seemingly never get a shutout, but at the end of the day just consistently stops 91-92% of shots, which is all that really matters.

I wonder if there is another goaltender in the league with a lower percentage of starts where he either gets a shutout or gets the hook. Markstrom almost never gets either. In that sense, he is the most consistent goalie I can ever recall seeing.

13 out of his 27 starts he had SP of over .910. That is not consistent to me, last 3 seasons he had a SP of .910, .912, .908. I don't have the numbers infront. I think that is a below SP for a number 1 goalie.

In my opinion I don't think he is good enough to be a starter.

 

[Zippgunn]

And did you actually read what I wrote?

Scheifle's goal is basically the play that Ovie scores all his PP goals. 3 tape-to-tape cross ice passes ending up in a 25 footer from a right-handed shooter at the left face off spot. An elite goal scorer is going to score that goal regardless of the goalie.

Right, I get it. Does Ovie score on every shot like that? Or do goalies occasionally stop one?

 

[Bleach Clean]

13 out of his 27 starts he had SP of over .910. That is not consistent to me, last 3 seasons he had a SP of .910, .912, .908. I don't have the numbers infront. I think that is a below SP for a number 1 goalie.

In my opinion I don't think he is good enough to be a starter.

Last year was the only season where he played a Starter's level of games (around 35~). He hasn't faced more than 1000 shots in any other season.

The cut off for a starter is the to be in the top31 of all goalies in the most important statistical categories. Here is his work:

2017-18:

Wins: 23rd
SV%: 23rd
GAA: 19th
SA: 13th
TOI: 12th

2018-19:

Wins: 9th
SV% 23rd
GAA: 26th
SA: 7th
TOI: 6th

In both years, he has finished in the top31 in all major goalie categories. That's a starter. He's also kept his percentage markers while facing more shots than the best backups. Therefore, even with skewed samples favouring back ups, those backups do not better him.

And just to hit this point home, here are the goalies that are behind him in SV%: Jones, Crawford, Price, Fleury, Anderson and Luongo.

Edit: And it to hit the point home even further, here are the goalies that finished behind him in SV% in 2017-18: Price, Anderson, Holtby, Howard and Murray.

 

[bandwagonesque]

13 out of his 27 starts he had SP of over .910. That is not consistent to me, last 3 seasons he had a SP of .910, .912, .908. I don't have the numbers infront. I think that is a below SP for a number 1 goalie.

In my opinion I don't think he is good enough to be a starter.

If you've made no comparison that takes into account how often other goaltenders have sv% in individual games higher than .910 and don't know whether the season sv%s you've mentioned are actually below average, what are you basing your beliefs on?

 

[Canucks1096]

If you've made no comparison that takes into account how often other goaltenders have sv% in individual games higher than .910 and don't know whether the season sv%s you've mentioned are actually below average, what are you basing your beliefs on?

Even if you made no comparison. You had a rough idea in your head on what that number is. Pretend if you someone asked you if a player has 20 goal 40 points is that person a 1st line forward? Most people in there head will know that is not 1st line production. You don't need much research for that. Markstrom SV if follow hockey you will know for sure that is not a high SV%. He is 23rd out of 31 goalie. Close to bottom in SV to me is not good enough to be number 1 goalie. You can call him 1B. Kind of like some people don't call Horvat number 1 center even though he is top 20 something in scoring center but most people will call him a 1B center.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Even if you made no comparison. You had a rough idea in your head on what that number is. Pretend if you someone asked you if a player has 20 goal 40 points is that person a 1st line forward? Most people in there head will know that is not 1st line production. You don't need much research for that. Markstrom SV if follow hockey you will know for sure that is not a high SV%. He is 23rd out of 31 goalie. Close to bottom in SV to me is not good enough to be number 1 goalie. You can call him 1B. Kind of like some people don't call Horvat number 1 center even though he is top 20 something in scoring center but most people will call him a 1B center.

The only rational cut off for a starter is to be in the top31. Otherwise, you're off into the land of subjectivity where no markers are used.

Also, you're confusing starter/no starter with excellent-good-average-poor-bad starter. He's definitely a starter. A #1 goalie. Where he ranges on the spectrum is what is up for debate.

By your rationale, these goalies are not starters: Jones, Crawford, Fleury, Anderson, Luongo, Price, Holtby, Howard and Murray. Good luck with that.

 

[Canucks1096]

The only rational cut off for a starter is to be in the top31. Otherwise, you're off into the land of subjectivity where no markers are used.

Also, you're confusing starter/no starter with excellent-good-average-poor-bad starter. He's definitely a starter. A #1 goalie. Where he ranges on the spectrum is what is up for debate.

By your rationale, these goalies are not starters: Jones, Crawford, Fleury, Anderson, Luongo, Price, Holtby, Howard and Murray. Good luck with that.

But why are we looking at only starters and not all goalies. If some backup goalies deserve to be a number 1 goalie. Why are they excluding? Pretend you are naming the top 31 centers. You are not going to exclude Malkin even he is a second line center on the team.

These are Markstrom stats when compared to every goalie

2017/2018

26th GAA
43th SV%

2018/2019

34 GAA
40 SV%

If you compare all goalies these are Markstrom stats. To be fair some goalies that played a few games are including. Even if you take them out. Most of Markstrom stats are higher than 31 ranking

Also you used a 35 game bench mark as your argument. But how many team actually have 2 goalies that had over 35 games. I am too lazy to check but probably not that many. So that means if you play 35 means. You are almost default as a number 1 goalie.

Those goalies have a number 1 goalie track record. Markstrom doesn't, only thing we can look at is his stat.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Even if you made no comparison. You had a rough idea in your head on what that number is. Pretend if you someone asked you if a player has 20 goal 40 points is that person a 1st line forward? Most people in there head will know that is not 1st line production. You don't need much research for that. Markstrom SV if follow hockey you will know for sure that is not a high SV%. He is 23rd out of 31 goalie. Close to bottom in SV to me is not good enough to be number 1 goalie. You can call him 1B. Kind of like some people don't call Horvat number 1 center even though he is top 20 something in scoring center but most people will call him a 1B center.

His save percentage, which is likely depressed due to an inadequate, turnover-prone defence, is 17th among goalies who have played more than half their team's games and exactly league average. He's a solid starting goaltender.

 

[Bleach Clean]

But why are we looking at only starters and not all goalies. If some backup goalies deserve to be a number 1 goalie. Why are they excluding? Pretend you are naming the top 31 centers. You are not going to exclude Malkin even he is a second line center on the team.

The exclusion of backup goalies is to reduce noise in the data set. They face less shots and that can lead to skewed SV% and GAA numbers. I also use 1000+ shots as another separator.

To use your example of top31 centres and Malkin: Malkin still plays enough to provide an accurate read on his play. The line orientation is arbitrary. If he performs well enough in the minutes played, he makes the cut to top31.

These are Markstrom stats when compared to every goalie

2017/2018

26th GAA
43th SV%

2018/2019

34 GAA
40 SV%

If you compare all goalies these are Markstrom stats. To be fair some goalies that played a few games are including. Even if you take them out. Most of Markstrom stats are higher than 31 ranking

Also you used a 35 game bench mark as your argument. But how many team actually have 2 goalies that had over 35 games. I am too lazy to check but probably not that many. So that means if you play 35 means. You are almost default as a number 1 goalie.

Those goalies have a number 1 goalie track record. Markstrom doesn't, only thing we can look at is his stat.

I used 35 games as a sample because it gives me a cut off at about 40~ goalies. It's the same when I use 15 games for this year. So no, just because you play enough games does not mean you perform as a #1 goalie. There are goalies that play enough that don't make the cut.

Please read up on sample sizes and how to evaluate goalies. There's great material out there that provides a guideline.

 

[tyhee]

After the Calgary game of Dec 29, Markstrom's stats on his recent hot streak:

Save %	GAA
last 7 games	.950	1.43
month of Dec (8 games)	.943	1.62

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As is always the case with hot streaks he's had some luck (3 posts against Edmonton the other night for example) but he's been really good, too.

During the month of December the Canucks with Markstrom in net have won 7 and lost 1 and in 5 of those 7 wins the Canucks were outshot (23-21 v St Louis Dec 9 and won 6-1, 32-24 Dec 15 vs Phi and won 5-1, 30-29 Dec 20 vs St Louis and won 5-1, 36-25 Dec 11 vs Columbus and won 3-2, 33-27 Dec 29 v Calgary and won 3-2 in ot.) The Canucks outshot the Jets in the one game in December Markstrom didn't win, with Markstrom stopping 23 of 24 shots in a 1-0 loss.

There's 1 game left in December and my guess is that Markstrom will be the Canucks starter, then getting a rest in one of the back to back games January 2 and 3.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Our latest video!

Enjoy the interview with Markstrom.

Side Note: looks like someone else will have to be im charge of the dressing room tunes.

 

[mossey3535]

Tell Marky I think he's awesome.

 

[Bleach Clean]

What is Markstrom getting on his new contract? His deal is up at the end of next year. If they barely play Demko this year, and play him 25% of the time next year, then I don't see how they don't bring Markstrom back?

It's only if Demko takes over the starter's position in 1 season that I foresee them moving on from Markstrom. Or, they just trade Markstrom and sign Bobrovsky in this offseason (Edit: Unlikely because Demko is still the succession plan and Bobrovsky would command top dollar and NTC).

 

[F A N]

What is Markstrom getting on his new contract? His deal is up at the end of next year. If they barely play Demko this year, and play him 25% of the time next year, then I don't see how they don't bring Markstrom back?

It's only if Demko takes over the starter's position in 1 season that I foresee them moving on from Markstrom. Or, they just trade Markstrom and sign Bobrovsky in this offseason.

Demko is likely going to get a 2 year bridge and depending on how well DiPietro is developing, if Markstrom plays well I can see him getting a 2 year deal for about the same money or a bit of a raise. I think the Canucks are high on DiPietro so I don't see a long term commitment being made until someone clearly grabs the #1 job.

 

[4Twenty]

It is incredible to me the level of play Markstrom is at right now is flying under the radar for fans. This is clearly the best level he's ever played at and just reinforces the last two years where he was peppered playing behind a pretty poor team with a small margin of error and doing well in those.

He's an NHL starter, was last year, showed he could the season before, and I'm impressed.

------

I actually think it sets up pretty well for the franchise moving forward into next year, and I think Markstrom playing for a contract and Demko competing for starts will be an excellent problem to have for the team.

 

[I am toxic]

Well, sumptin's up.

With the smaller pants last season, we saw the squeakers getting through. With the smaller chesty's this year, I expected it to get worse.

Quite the opposite. I believe Alex has mentioned Ian Clark's work with Marky, and a particular corner that had been turned (along the lines of waiting for the play to develop even though he has already anticipated correctly where it is going).

 

[iceburg]

Demko is likely going to get a 2 year bridge and depending on how well DiPietro is developing, if Markstrom plays well I can see him getting a 2 year deal for about the same money or a bit of a raise. I think the Canucks are high on DiPietro so I don't see a long term commitment being made until someone clearly grabs the #1 job.

Simply put, the team's goaltending is set for many years to come...if all three end up showing they are solid starters (still a long way to go) then something will give. But that's for the realm of crystal balls and magic wands.

 

[4Twenty]

Well, sumptin's up.

With the smaller pants last season, we saw the squeakers getting through. With the smaller chesty's this year, I expected it to get worse.

Quite the opposite. I believe Alex has mentioned Ian Clark's work with Marky, and a particular corner that had been turned (along the lines of waiting for the play to develop even though he has already anticipated correctly where it is going).

I know next to nothing about goalie evaluation, but it seems like he's no longer actively trying to make saves with his athleticism (and he's damn athletic for a man his size) and is more patient and letting the puck hit him.

Seems that simplifying his base, yet allowing his athleticism to shine when it needs has struck a really good balance right now.

 

[Guardian452]

Simply put, the team's goaltending is set for many years to come...if all three end up showing they are solid starters (still a long way to go) then something will give. But that's for the realm of crystal balls and magic wands.

If all goes well, either Markstrom is exposed in the expansion draft or gets traded after the end of the 2021 season, Demko takes over as the #1 and DiPietro becomes the backup in 2021-22.

 

[polarbearcub]

It’s actually astonishing ... marky looks like a totally different goalie stylistically now. It’s not even close. He’s so composed and efficient now

 

[StreetHawk]

If all goes well, either Markstrom is exposed in the expansion draft or gets traded after the end of the 2021 season, Demko takes over as the #1 and DiPietro becomes the backup in 2021-22.

Markstrom's current contract expires in 2020. He has 1 more year left.

I think he knows the situation. He can see Demko on the roster and he knows Dipietro will be in the AHL next season. He'll likely pick his spot in 2020. It's up to him to earn his next contract, which is expected to be with another team.

I don't see him signing with Vancouver, only to be exposed and possibly claimed by Seattle. Unless, he's signing a deal this summer. But, not sure why the Canucks would do that. Unless they plan on flipping him.

 

[Star Ocean]

Markstrom cant be protected?