Pre-Game Talk: Jackets @ Sens Feb. 7 Backup of the Backup Edition

[mat_sens]

To be fair, at least there still is a crowd. This is now the second straight season that this has been a non-playoff, non-competitive team. Add in the fact that it is late in the season with no hope that things will turn around until at least next October and I think the club should be counting their blessings that people are still coming out.

I agree, but wouldn't be surprised to see crowds become lower and lower in attendance as the years goes on.

I doubt Sens fans will tolerate another year of this and still keep going to games. I've rarely seen a crowd this quiet.

 

[blahblah3]

Agreed.

We didn't even get the dead cat bounce improvement in our record under Cameron. We are further behind than where we were when we fired Maclean.

Maclean needed to be replaced, but Cameron has been an awful choice in that regard. I don't even want to hear the "we look better on the ice" argument either, Maclean had lost the room so badly that there was no real way the team could have played any more lackluster than the way they were playing under Mac. They had nowhere to go but up, and they have BARELY gone up at all.

I will give Cameron all the credit in the world if he can change it up and try something new that finds success, I'm just not expecting it anytime soon.

Seems like you guys have blind hatred for Cameron. Most of the sens stats have show a healthy uptick since he took over. I have no problem with him as a coach. The issue now is a lack of defense who can help create offensive plays and reliably defend. The team simply isn't good enough, as is. Also, Mac and Turris have had horrible years in terms of scoring, unexpectedly. Also, Lehner sucks and probably always will. How the hell is Cameron supposed to correct that?

Technically, the writing was on the wall during BM's delusional Post Season Conference when he stated that the biggest priority for next season was getting another top 6 forward. You have to be insane to think that is a bigger problem then our defense.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Seems like you guys have blind hatred for Cameron. Most of the sens stats have show a healthy uptick since he took over. I have no problem with him as a coach. The issue now is a lack of defense who can help create offensive plays and reliably defend. The team simply isn't good enough, as is. Also, Mac and Turris have had horrible years in terms of scoring, unexpectedly. Also, Lehner sucks and probably always will. How the hell is Cameron supposed to correct that?

Technically, the writing was on the wall during BM's delusional Post Season Conference when he stated that the biggest priority for next season was getting another top 6 forward. You have to be insane to think that is a bigger problem then our defense.

Macs and Turris' down years in production. (I don't think they've been terrible) were expected. By a lot of people.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I agree, but wouldn't be surprised to see crowds become lower and lower in attendance as the years goes on.

I doubt Sens fans will tolerate another year of this and still keep going to games. I've rarely seen a crowd this quiet.

They sounded pretty rowdy last night based on my high-quality stream

 

[blahblah3]

Macs and Turris' down years in production. (I don't think they've been terrible) were expected. By a lot of people.

It has nothing to do with Spezzas departure. They just aren't burying their chances, which they have had many this year. Every game they are missing empty nets and hitting posts multiple times a game.

 

[HavlatMach9]

takes an extra ability to bury those chances though

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Yeah screw this improving thing! We expected this team to suddenly turn into a contender! Not just improve from most aspects! And who cares if most players have said they feel better under Cameron and are playing with more confidence, including Karlsson. The record is all that matters in a season where the playoffs were never really a goal!

WE WANT FIRE.

It's hilarious that people see a slightly better team defensively and an uptick in fancy stats and that's more important than the overall offense going ice cold, the prospect goalie regressing, and the powerplay going into the toilet.

But..but...Corsi!

This is a results-based business. At the end of the day, Cameron isn't getting results. Is he doing a better job than Maclean? Probably. Is he the best coach available? No. He was a hire of circumstance and the team's play reflects that.

You know who also has improved possession stats? Toronto. Should Horacek stick around too?

Good luck selling tickets keeping the coach who moved them to a 5th overall pick.

 

[jbeck5]

Agreed

On the bright side he's improved since getting a few starts in a row so there's that

The problem then becomes how do you rely on him if he isn't capable of coming in and play well after not playing for a little bit?

Alternate starts?

The goalies played the best combined hockey when they were playing every other game.

Anderson's season numbers seem to be better when he plays less games than most.

Play em each 41 games that way Anderson doesn't get worse with too much work, and lehner gets better with consistent work.

 

[jbeck5]

Why don't we ever change up who we use on the PP?

At this point shouldn't Cowen get a chance out there? Do we ever practice one-timers? We seem to be the only team in the league that can't do a one-timer.

I know it's a 'high skill' play, but shouldn't some of our players be able to hit a puck at the net when it's already moving?

Another point; only Toronto and Buffalo have given up more short handed goals against (8) than Ottawa (6).

We're also 6th in the league for PP opportunities. 7th overall for PP TOI.

Count me in one someone that is noticing our lack of one timers.

Redden and Alfie used to fire one timers at will.
Gonchar and karlsson used to fire one timers at will.

I look at other teams PPs and their sharp shooters are firing one timers at will. Chara, weber,subban, phaneuf etc.

Why is karlsson or Hoffman or turris never one timing? The only person that has done it this year is zibby on the far side and even he seems to have stopped doing it.

Also the amount of tick tack toe plays in close that we don't tap in. We cradle the puck and hold on to it until the goalies slides across to cover the open net. We then shoot.

Too much hesitation on almost every shot. Passes are quick. Shots are delayed.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

It's hilarious that people see a slightly better team defensively and an uptick in fancy stats and that's more important than the overall offense going ice cold, the prospect goalie regressing, and the powerplay going into the toilet.

But..but...Corsi!

This is a results-based business. At the end of the day, Cameron isn't getting results. Is he doing a better job than Maclean? Probably. Is he the best coach available? No. He was a hire of circumstance and the team's play reflects that.

You know who also has improved possession stats? Toronto. Should Horacek stick around too?

Good luck selling tickets keeping the coach who moved them to a 5th overall pick.

A new GM is going to want to bring in his coach as well. I'd be surprised if Cameron is back behind the bench next season.

Also Coris . . . bleh

 

[mat_sens]

They sounded pretty rowdy last night based on my high-quality stream

Other than 5 year old screaming their lungs out and a section full of Jackets fans, it was the worst I've seen live.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It's hilarious that people see a slightly better team defensively and an uptick in fancy stats and that's more important than the overall offense going ice cold, the prospect goalie regressing, and the powerplay going into the toilet.

But..but...Corsi!

This is a results-based business. At the end of the day, Cameron isn't getting results. Is he doing a better job than Maclean? Probably. Is he the best coach available? No. He was a hire of circumstance and the team's play reflects that.

You know who also has improved possession stats? Toronto. Should Horacek stick around too?

Good luck selling tickets keeping the coach who moved them to a 5th overall pick.

Who else is available that could get this team to score more without completely sacrificing the defensive side things like Maclean did

At the end of the day that's what the problem is: we don't have the players to be good defensively AND offensively.

Cameron is pretty much doing the opposite of what Maclean was doing and it shows in all those fancy stats and while they certainly don't make losing any easier to swallow they show that this team is capable of adhering to the fundamentals and that the failings are skill-based

Management's job is to get the talent needed so that the team can continue playing the way it currently is but also score goals, especially on the PP.

If the fundamentals are solid you don't change the coach, no matter how much you think it's nepotism it doesn't change the fact that another coach will not be able to get different results since we've seen the two options that are available to us considering the roster.

It's on management to find way to get the players that could help this team score more because the system is fine now, it was a disaster under Maclean (due to the personel, not the coach).

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Alternate starts?

The goalies played the best combined hockey when they were playing every other game.

Anderson's season numbers seem to be better when he plays less games than most.

Play em each 41 games that way Anderson doesn't get worse with too much work, and lehner gets better with consistent work.

Hear that coaches? Never play a goalie two games in a row. That's what dummies do.

 

[Back in Black]

Not sure why nobody is blaming our GM for the rebuild. (Sure we can feel sorry for him going through hell right now with his personal life), but come on, his rebuild did not work, nor will it in a couple of years when some of these guys mature.

There will be more turnaround while this happens. I'm very thankful Murray is stepping down at the end of the season, it is seriously time for new blood in the GM position.

And yes, his move to replace Maclean did nothing in the big picture, but save his job for the time being.

So hate me for saying this!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not sure why nobody is blaming our GM for the rebuild. (Sure we can feel sorry for him going through hell right now with his personal life), but come on, his rebuild did not work, nor will it in a couple of years when some of these guys mature.

There will be more turnaround while this happens. I'm very thankful Murray is stepping down at the end of the season, it is seriously time for new blood in the GM position.

And yes, his move to replace Maclean did nothing in the big picture, but save his job for the time being.

So hate me for saying this!

The rebuild isn't done. The two first years were the worst things that could have happened. Set expectations way to high.
They started this thing in 2011. Our first 4 picks in that draft were zibanejad noesen puempel and prince.

Zibanejad is just starting to come into his own now. Which is normal. He's 21. Puempel is just getting ready for his first call up. Same with prince. When did people think we would start seeing an improvement? Unless your drafting a player that can put up 100 + points in his first two years each (Crosby) .... Rebuilds take time. We've only had 2 first round picks since 2011. Picks probably later then where we should have been drafting. But still we got two good players. But that's only 2 more realy building blocks that we added. And they themselves are going to take a few years to get to the level we need. Looking back, spezza probably should have been traded in the rebuild. Would have gotten us the best return.
We are definitely doing the rebuild the long way.
We aren't drafting Crosby and Malkin , stamkos and hedman, or toews and Kane. So of course we are taking longer than Those teams

 

[StefanW]

Not sure why nobody is blaming our GM for the rebuild. (Sure we can feel sorry for him going through hell right now with his personal life), but come on, his rebuild did not work, nor will it in a couple of years when some of these guys mature.

There will be more turnaround while this happens. I'm very thankful Murray is stepping down at the end of the season, it is seriously time for new blood in the GM position.

And yes, his move to replace Maclean did nothing in the big picture, but save his job for the time being.

So hate me for saying this!

With you and a couple of other posters blaming our GM for everything across other threads maybe no one feels the need to.

 

[DrEasy]

Count me in one someone that is noticing our lack of one timers.

Redden and Alfie used to fire one timers at will.
Gonchar and karlsson used to fire one timers at will.

I look at other teams PPs and their sharp shooters are firing one timers at will. Chara, weber,subban, phaneuf etc.

Why is karlsson or Hoffman or turris never one timing? The only person that has done it this year is zibby on the far side and even he seems to have stopped doing it.

Also the amount of tick tack toe plays in close that we don't tap in. We cradle the puck and hold on to it until the goalies slides across to cover the open net. We then shoot.

Too much hesitation on almost every shot. Passes are quick. Shots are delayed.

Yeah, the lack of one-timers has been one of my long-time pet peeves. This is one of the 1000 ways Alf's departure hurt. That's also why I wanted to get Garrison when he was a free agent. Does Puempel have a good one-timer?

Put me on board the Cowen for the PP bandwagon.

 

[Back in Black]

With you and a couple of other posters blaming our GM for everything across other threads maybe no one feels the need to.

Who should we blame? Murray came out at the beginning of the season saying he was confident we had a Playoff team this year.

We are in the basement. Thats bad judgement!

 

[Micklebot]

Agreed.

We didn't even get the dead cat bounce improvement in our record under Cameron. We are further behind than where we were when we fired Maclean.

Maclean needed to be replaced, but Cameron has been an awful choice in that regard. I don't even want to hear the "we look better on the ice" argument either, Maclean had lost the room so badly that there was no real way the team could have played any more lackluster than the way they were playing under Mac. They had nowhere to go but up, and they have BARELY gone up at all.

I will give Cameron all the credit in the world if he can change it up and try something new that finds success, I'm just not expecting it anytime soon.

Well, our ES Sv% went from .930 to .918. once Cameron took over. Part of that is Lehner struggling and Anderson getting injured, how much of it can you blame on Cameron? Because, that, and our struggling PP, have been the difference.

I think a lot of people are letting end results influence their perception of the events. I've found our offense has remained pretty static, though we haven't had the result to show for it.

War-on-ice has a pretty solid scoring chance definition, and their research shows it doing a better job of predicting future goals than Corsi. They include data on rush shots, rebounds and shot location.

Coach|Scoring Chance %|SC for /60| SC against/60
Cameron|53.1%|26.0|23.0
MacLean|48.4%|25.0|26.7

To me, this aligns pretty well with how I've perceived the games. We've looked far more competitive in my mind.

The PP on the other hand is an interesting one to me, because in a lot of cases the head coach isn't the one running the PP. I'm not sure who did it under MacLean or who does it now, but it's certainly failed to get results lately. How much of that is a different system, the coach, or luck, Idk.

 

[Super Cake]

It's hilarious that people see a slightly better team defensively and an uptick in fancy stats and that's more important than the overall offense going ice cold, the prospect goalie regressing, and the powerplay going into the toilet.

But..but...Corsi!

This is a results-based business. At the end of the day, Cameron isn't getting results. Is he doing a better job than Maclean? Probably. Is he the best coach available? No. He was a hire of circumstance and the team's play reflects that.

You know who also has improved possession stats? Toronto. Should Horacek stick around too?

Good luck selling tickets keeping the coach who moved them to a 5th overall pick.

We would most likely be 5th overall with Maclean as well for what its worth.

 

[Super Cake]

I extremely hope we don't play like this again next season.

 

[BonkTastic]

We would most likely be 5th overall with Maclean as well for what its worth.

Probably.

I think Maclean was a fairly good coach who had the team tune him out and he resorted to a combination of mad-scientist ideas and stubborn adherences to styles of play that the roster couldn't support to try and salvage a bad situation.

I think Cameron is a fairly unimaginative coach who has the ear of the players but is nothing special.

We weren't making the playoffs with either guy, IMO.

 

[Senscore]

We would most likely be 5th overall with Maclean as well for what its worth.

Good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Cameron may have a different way of doing things, and he's been an improvement in certain areas, but in others he hasn't and at the end of the day the team is just as crappy now as it was earlier in the year.

Hard to win when the team is just fundamentally broken.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Probably.

I think Maclean was a fairly good coach who had the team tune him out and he resorted to a combination of mad-scientist ideas and stubborn adherences to styles of play that the roster couldn't support to try and salvage a bad situation.

I think Cameron is a fairly unimaginative coach who has the ear of the players but is nothing special.

We weren't making the playoffs with either guy, IMO.

Agreed.

Nothing against Cameron, but he is the epitome of vanilla.

MacLean has much better pedigree, but he also has a shelf life.

 

[StefanW]

Who should we blame? Murray came out at the beginning of the season saying he was confident we had a Playoff team this year.

We are in the basement. Thats bad judgement!

You know, you're totally right. I've never heard of a GM who said his team is good at the start of a season when it actually wasn't. I think BM must have invented that.