Post-Game Talk: Jacket

[TheDirtyH]

I think Goodrow will hold them back, if you want an all-offense, no-defense line. I'm not even referring to Goodrow's defense. He's a black hole on offense except for the occasional beautiful-mind passing and deflections. You put Kravtsov on right wing.

Gallant just has to get over the mental hump that Chytil is not a legit 2C. He has gotten over other humps, like Miller on the power play, Trouba benched in overtime, Kakko top-line minites, etc. So hopefully he will flip Chytil and Trocheck.

The one thing about goodrow since he's been here is he's managed to put up points at an acceptable rate. And he can take faceoffs for Chytil. I definitely don't think it's an ideal line, but that's the biggest problem on the rangers at the moment--no line with #10 on it is going to be ideal.

 

[McRanger92]

2 days ago or was it 4x4? Either way, it's at even strength, and he's not a goal-scorer.

He averaged 30 a year through his first year with the Rangers.

.37 Goals per game pre-covid (148 in 391)
.28 Goals per game post-covid (46 in 162)

At 11.6 he needs to be a goals scorer and a playmaker

 

[will1066]

I don't think it's entirely his fault. His talent is alien here at Grinder Inc.

Clearly he doesn't want to play with people draped over him, unless he has to in the offensive zone, because he can't shake people off as well as he used to. As soon as he gets the puck on the breakout, he stops and throws it across the rink. Clearly he has told his linemates to fly down the opposite wing and in the middle of the ice for this play that he makes EVERY SINGLE TIME. And it gets intercepted or deflected nearly every single time. I don't think he avoids physical contact because he's gone soft. He avoids it because he can't get free as good as he used to. I also think he is much more selective in choosing when to go hard.

 

[Machinehead]

He's not shooting more. He's shooting LESS. He's shooting at the lowest rate since he joined the rangers. His iFenwick/60 is lowest in that span as well, and his icorsi is second lowest. (5v5)

That's interesting. I was going by shots.

That would mean he's getting a disproportionate amount of shots on goal which doesn't track with anything anybody is screaming about.

He leads the team in even-strength scoring, so this whole argument against him at even-strength is pure bullshit.

A trained chimp could lead this team in even-strength scoring.

He's 31st in the league. I think it's fair to expect better than that.

 

[Fitzy]

Yup
Quinn >>> Gallant

For Panarin's output? Sure.

For our defensive corps and goaltender? Not so much

How many cup winning teams play completely free range hockey?

 

[Machinehead]

For Panarin's output? Sure.

For our defensive corps and goaltender? Not so much

How many cup winning teams play completely free range hockey?

The Rangers have a positive xGF%, are top ten in corsi, and 11th in even strength goal differential.

I'd much rather do that than run around the ice to score a few more goals.

You know what's entertaining? Having a chance in the playoffs.

 

[chosen]

He averaged 30 a year through his first year with the Rangers.

.37 Goals per game pre-covid (148 in 391)
.28 Goals per game post-covid (46 in 162)

At 11.6 he needs to be a goals scorer and a playmaker

If he was a goal scorer and got assists at the same rate, he'd be the 2nd best forward to McDavid.

He had 96 points last season (his career high) and is on pace for 90 this season.

A player whose best season is 32 goals while being a point per game player for his career, is far more of a distributor than a finisher. You can want him to be a goal-scorer. You can want whatever you want, but it won't change reality.

 

[Machinehead]

I have two problems

1) What's going on with our kids? (beaten that horse)

2) We're completely mediocre at even strength offense

I think the two are related. Whatever, everyone has problems. This team is much, much, much better than David Quinn's teams.

We beat Carolina in the playoffs. Carolina spit out Quinn's Rangers in three games without trying.

 

[Kodiak]

I think you have to put him with Chytil. Chytil and goodrow. Accept that you're going to get caved defensively but pretend that goodrow can win faceoffs and block shots so it's not actually happening, and meanwhile let our best passer play with our best shooter. Hope they can outscore their deficiencies and match them against bottom six competition, bottom pair defensemen, and start them in the o-zone as much as possible

When we've tried Chytil and Panarin in the past, it was usually as part of a shake up because the forward lines in general were not working. Chytil, at those times, was not playing well and continued to not play well with Panarin. But right now, Chytil is playing with a lot of confidence, so this is a better time to try the Chytil and Panarin combination.

On paper, Chytil makes a lot of sense with Panarin. He drives the net, wins board battles, tries to make himself a passing option, and likes to shoot the puck. Those are all things Panarin needs.

 

[Fitzy]

I think the possession metrics are too hard on Goodrow and Schneider this season, and perhaps too charitable to Kravtsov. But that leg of the stool (Possession, traditional, eye) seems sound this year.

Goodrow has frankly been pretty good- it's that our utter lack of a real 4C and Vesey/Kravtsov's presence has been keeping him out of the top 9 a lot.

I look forward to seeing what we can get for Goodrow and Trouba this offseason if either is willing to waive.

As for the kids, as badly as Laf has performed, we've got two defensemen here who had we taken them 1st and 2nd overall (Fox, Miller) I don't think too many people would be unhappy with either of them.

Maybe Kakko is just a 40-50 point two way player. You know what? Teams need those too. Just means he won't be leading our offense in every game ending situation.

 

[McRanger92]

If he was a goal scorer and got assists at the same rate, he'd be the 2nd best forward to McDavid.

He had 96 points last season (his career high) and is on pace for 90 this season.

A player whose best season is 32 goals while being a point per game player for his career, is far more of a distributor than a finisher. You can want him to be a goal-scorer. You can want whatever you want, but it won't change reality.

I want him to make a difference consistently in the playoffs for the Rangers. That's what I really want. He is 0 for 1 in that regard (0 for 2 if we want to get technical), so it will be nut up time in a few months. And acting like him being the "2nd best forward to McDavid" is some unattainable goal is ridiculous. He has the 2nd highest cap hit in the league and was nominated for the Hart WITH the Rangers in 2019. 2nd best should be the expectation!

 

[chosen]

That's interesting. I was going by shots.

That would mean he's getting a disproportionate amount of shots on goal which doesn't track with anything anybody is screaming about.

A trained chimp could lead this team in even-strength scoring.

He's 31st in the league. I think it's fair to expect better than that.

I think how a player performs in relationship to his teammates is a far more important stat than how he compares to players on other teams. If the Rangers were a lottery team, then it would be fairer to complain about his output, but the Rangers are a top-10 team in the league (They currently are 7th in points). When you lead in even-strength scoring on a team that is a contender for the Cup, you're not a problem.

The only reason he catches so much flak here from some is because of his salary. That's not his fault and he turned down a bigger salary to play here.

You've always told me how great Kreider is, yet he can't even score at the rate of a trained chimp, per your analysis.

 

[JimmyG89]

TroPanarin is simply putrid right now. But who knows, maybe Laf takes Tro's focus away from Panarin. Tro and Laf do the work; Panarin can go hide and spring out to attack.

I just look at their earlier stint this season and it's the best of the rest. You could go Chytil there, but you just know Gallant doesn't trust him enough in his own end to put Lafreniere there too.

That line was the victim of poor goalie play more than anything else. Even in xGF, on the better end of shots, CF%, etc., but just didn't get the saves other lines got. I just think getting a better version of Shesterkin/Halak from the beginning of the season will help

 

[Machinehead]

I think how a player performs in relationship to his teammates is a far more important stat than how he compares to players on other teams. If the Rangers were a lottery team, then it would be fairer to complain about his output, but the Rangers are a top-10 team in the league (They currently are 7th in points). When you lead in even-strength scoring on a team that is a contender for the Cup, you're not a problem.

The only reason he catches so much flak here from some is because of his salary. That's not his fault and he turned down a bigger salary to play here.

You've always told me how great Kreider is, yet he can't even score at the rate of a trained chimp, per your analysis.

I don't think it's fair to just say "well the Rangers are good, so leading them in scoring is an accomplishment." The Rangers are objectively not good at scoring even strength goals.

The expectations are different for a player like Kreider. For Panarin's ability, leading the team in scoring is bare minimum. He should be one of the league leaders. I don't think that's unfair.

You can say "well, it's just because of salary" and yes, salary sets expectations. Again, I don't see anything unfair there. At $11.6m you're paying for a guy near the top of the league, not at the top of team.

 

[duhmetreE]

That's interesting. I was going by shots.

That would mean he's getting a disproportionate amount of shots on goal which doesn't track with anything anybody is screaming about.

A trained chimp could lead this team in even-strength scoring.

He's 31st in the league. I think it's fair to expect better than that.

does a shot count if you miss the net? I would guess his shot attempts are normal but I'd always thought that needed to be higher.

His quality in his shots has deteriorated. in 2019 he was picking corners.... in 2023 he's scuffing the boards

 

[chosen]

I want him to make a difference consistently in the playoffs for the Rangers. That's what I really want. He is 0 for 1 in that regard (0 for 2 if we want to get technical), so it will be nut up time in a few months. And acting like him being the "2nd best forward to McDavid" is some unattainable goal is ridiculous. He has the 2nd highest cap hit in the league and was nominated for the Hart WITH the Rangers in 2019. 2nd best should be the expectation!

They have had one real season of playoffs.

Expecting a 31-year-old to be the 2nd best player in the NHL isn't a realistic expectation unless you're a generational talent, but again, you can expect whatever you want.

Your gripe is with management, even if you don't understand that.

 

[EdJovanovski]

What a stud

 

[Machinehead]

does a shot count if you miss the net? I would guess his shot attempts are normal but I'd always thought that needed to be higher.

His quality in his shots has deteriorated. in 2019 he was picking corners.... in 2023 he's scuffing the boards.

A "shot" is on-goal. An attempt is a Fewick or and iCorsi which is what @TheDirtyH was referring to.

Panarin is getting more of his shots on goal than usual but attempting fewer, which does imply that the overall quality is down. He's hitting chests.

 

[chosen]

I don't think it's fair to just say "well the Rangers are good, so leading them in scoring is an accomplishment." The Rangers are objectively not good at scoring even strength goals.

The expectations are different for a player like Kreider. For Panarin's ability, leading the team in scoring is bare minimum. He should be one of the league leaders. I don't think that's unfair.

You can say "well, it's just because of salary" and yes, salary sets expectations. Again, I don't see anything unfair there. At $11.6m you're paying for a guy near the top of the league, not at the top of team.

Is that Panarin's fault or management's fault?

Like I said to someone else, expecting a 31-year-old to be a superstar when he's not a generational talent is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Machinehead]

You also have to keep in mind that around 90 points is not what it was in Panarin's first season.

Scoring is on crack the last couple of years. Like 20 guys are going to have a hundred points.

 

[Machinehead]

Is that Panarin's fault or management's fault?

Like I said to someone else, expecting a 31-year-old to be a superstar when he's not a generational talent is pretty ridiculous.

We can't expect Panarin to be a superstar?

 

[romba]

He should dip his shoulder and take the D-man to the net himself (like he did in OT against Dallas), or get a shot off and play for a rebound chance.

He’s not a power forward. He tries that move every few games but he’s never had the speed or strength to do that and 9/10 times ends up outmuscled, losing the puck and I think he feels emasculated lol. He’d rather try for the pull up and fancy pass and if it’s a turn over (50/50) at least he has his masculinity intact even though blue line turn overs are much rougher, and if successful it looks nice. The only other option he generally has is bad angle shots with no one available for screens or rebounds, or to dump it in which he does as well, but clearly is a last option.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Ok so here's Panarin

View attachment 636673

Do you want better offensive play-driving at his price tag? Sure. He's still a net positive.

Then there's this guy.

View attachment 636675

Don't know if I would pay the price tag for it in a trade but if we're ignoring the defensive side (which...fine), then it makes some sense.

Then there's this absolute piece of shit.

View attachment 636674

Trying to improve Panarin 5v5 with Kane is like trying to put out a fire by throwing a grenade at it.

What's Timo Meier looking like

 

[McRanger92]

They have had one real season of playoffs.

Expecting a 31-year-old to be the 2nd best player in the NHL isn't a realistic expectation unless you're a generational talent, but again, you can expect whatever you want.

Your gripe is with management, even if you don't understand that.

The point you're missing is that he was that player at one point, with the Rangers no less. What changed? He's 31 now so he isn't the same player? I don't buy that for one second. Star players in their mid-late 30s are succeeding throughout the league, why does Panarin get a pass? He was signed to be our difference-maker and he hasn't been over the last year and a half. It's not an unfair criticism.

I'll throw this in: Who do you think Trouba was addressing when he threw his helmet and yelled "wake up" at the bench? If you think it was the Kids, you're misguided.

 

[Machinehead]

What's Timo Meier looking like

Blue. Very blue.