Jack Eichel

[FabricDetails]

Reading that piece about him in The Athletic- Where did those questions about his character come from?

I guess he seems like an outspoken guy. As in, you say something that offends him and he might clap back publicly and honestly. Even if that bleeds into his dealings with coaches, management and ownership I wouldn't characterize that as character issues necessarily.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Reading that piece about him in The Athletic- Where did those questions about his character come from?

I guess he seems like an outspoken guy. As in, you say something that offends him and he might clap back publicly and honestly. Even if that bleeds into his dealings with coaches, management and ownership I wouldn't characterize that as character issues necessarily.

I have no problems with Eichel's character personally. The big thing that scares me about him is his injury history.

 

[14ari13]

I honestly go back and forth with what I would be comfortable with. It wouldn’t feel good either way but you would have to be interested and willing to pay a decent price but I guess we are outbid easily

Not really. Not many teams can fit him on their payroll .
Both rangers and kings have to give up a very inexpensive player for a 10 mill player.
If we don't want to give them either Larkin or Seider, and we certainly should not, then we have to give them something good but not too expensive. We give them 3 players for under 8 mill.

 

[Bench]

I think it's unfair to judge the Karlsson trade knowing that San Jose bottomed out and the pick became 3rd OA. When the trade was made everyone, including Ottawa, had every expectation it would be a mid-late first.

It was the lack of impact players like Timo or Hertl going back that caused the fuss. It was that teams like Tampa could have "easily" beat that offer.

So when I see claims like "If it doesn't include a top line center going back..." On top of an elite prospect and top 10 pick.

We've seen this kind of deal time after time. Underwhelming returns are the standard for star players being moved. Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson straight across being another that sticks out.

 

[HisNoodliness]

It was the lack of impact players like Timo or Hertl going back that caused the fuss. It was that teams like Tampa could have "easily" beat that offer.

So when I see claims like "If it doesn't include a top line center going back..." On top of an elite prospect and top 10 pick.

We've seen this kind of deal time after time. Underwhelming returns are the standard for star players being moved. Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson straight across being another that sticks out.

I think it's fair to say that Buffalo will probably get an underwhelming return. I just don't think it's fair to say that Ottawa got a fair return for Karlsson with the knowledge that a then top 10 defenseman would get a lot worse and a late first would become 3rd OA Stutzle

 

[Sparty]

Everyone keeps citing the Karlsson trade as somehow comparable, but he was going to hit free agency in one year, how can anyone know what five years of Eric Karlsson closer to his prime would have cost though?

 

[19 for president]

I'd be fine with giving up our 2021 1st, Wash 2021 1st, and Raymond for him if they feel comfortable about his health status. Giving up more than 3 first for a player doesn't usually turn out well. Especially when you consider that he makes 10+ mil and has an injury history. I think some team would outbid us, but destroying your future depth for one player isn't a good idea. One star player cannot build a cup winner (See edm).

Also I very much think the below would at least be a playoff team if healthy.

Zadina- Eichel- Vrana
Bert- Larkin- Fabbri
Erne-Ras- Panik
Svech-Veleno-Smith

Hronek- DD
Seider- Martinez
Lindstrom- Staal/ Cholo

 

[SirloinUB]

I always say two things can be true. I can accept that in a vacuum Eichel is worth 3 or 4 premium assets. However in a real trade you need a partner that is willing to dance and I just don’t see anyone giving up that much.

I think in reality Buffalo will have to choose between one premium piece with a couple smaller adds or a package with 3 or 4 good assets. Not sure what if choose if I were in their shoes.

 

[Bench]

Everyone keeps citing the Karlsson trade as somehow comparable, but he was going to hit free agency in one year, how can anyone know what five years of Eric Karlsson closer to his prime would have cost though?

You're caught up in it as a 1 to 1. That's not the point.

The point is we have example after example of star players not returning what their perceived value is from HFBoards GMs.

 

[Ricelund]

When players of Eichel's caliber become available on the trade market, fans tend to overestimate what it will take to acquire them. These guys almost never return what fans expect.

Remember when a 26-year-old Joe Thornton was traded for Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, and Marco Sturm?

 

[SuperScript29]

I was thinking about it the other day but after giving it a thought, it's a hard no from me for the following reasons:

- He sounds like a drama queen.
- Seems to have a serious injury.
- Homeboy has a cap space of 10 million for the next 5 years.

No thank you, and that goes for Sam Reinhart as well.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Of course you would

You rather have Bert Zadina and the Washington first over Eichel?

 

[jkutswings]

Hard pass. I don't want a 1C that collects injuries like buffalo nickels. I'd rather have the assets that Ottawa got than Karlsson, and I'd rather have the assets it would require to land Eichel than Eichel himself.

Detroit is rebuilding the right way, by hoarding draft picks, flipping deadline guys, and testing reclamation projects on short term deals. If in 2-3 years they're ready to roll and just need one last major piece, then sure, you can risk something like this on a guy with great talent and questionable health. But not when you're still years away with several holes to fill.

 

[MBH]

I normally don’t start these kind of threads but Eichel is a top 10 forward in the game. He is a major building block. Based on recent reports, Eichel’s time in Buffalo is likely over. Obviously we should have interest, but how much should we pay?

Thread on the trade board is seeking a top line player, 1st + 2 top prospects. I’m not sure they get that value but either way he won’t be cheap.

I pulled the Karlsson trade for reference as he was the most recent superstar I could think of that was traded.





I’m sure the trade market will be highly competitive but
my question is how much should we be willing to pay?

I ask this because from a team building perspective you still need to have some pieces to build around. Obviously Eichel won’t be cheap so what are your best offers?

I hate to shit on a guy like Eichel, but this guy has been dissatisfied in Buffalo for a long time.
How much do the Wings want to pay for a guy who doesn't seem able to help his team improve, who constantly has problems with his coaches, who's super expensive (capwise), who would cost and arm and a leg (trade-wise), and who, at 24, might be beyond his production peak?

I'd be willing to move Raymond + Veleno and a pick (Washington 1st).
That's a big haul.
But then again, maybe it's a 2nd line winger, a 3rd line center and whatever comes from a later first.

 

[Shaman464]

I would trade Larkin for Eichel without a second thought. My package would be Larkin+Caps 1st+3rd (or a throw in prospect).

 

[ThankGord]

We've been patient up to this point and it's going well enough, would rather not gut our depth and prospect pool to run a top-heavy lineup that'll still miss the playoffs.

 

[MBH]

You're caught up in it as a 1 to 1. That's not the point.

The point is we have example after example of star players not returning what their perceived value is from HFBoards GMs.

True. But not true.
Karlsson's warts had started showing. he was about to be a UFA.
At the time of the deal, it seemed Ottawa got ripped. But then Karlsson and the Sharks started to suck.
The cost to keep Karlsson, a declining asset, was going to be ridiculous.
Eichel will cost a lot. But he's a long, long ways away from being a truly declining asset.

 

[Shaman464]

We've been patient up to this point and it's going well enough, would rather not gut our depth and prospect pool to run a top-heavy lineup that'll still miss the playoffs.

Yeah, but if Detroit can get out trading Larkin and any pick that isn't their first overall, Eichel is a no brainer.

 

[Ishad]

I don’t see why eichel would want to come here. We’re not anywhere close to being rebuilt.

 

[14ari13]

Eichel just doesn't fit Detroit's timeline. When the Wings hit their window, he'll be a year or two from UFA. There's no way Yzerman will give up Seider or a lottery pick in either the Wright/Lambert or the Bedard/Michkov draft, and I doubt the Sabres would trade Eichel for less (say, Larkin, Berggren and a 2nd or some such).

He is as old as Larkin 24 and 2 years older than Hronek, he fits perfectly.

The wings and the Sabres are not the same.
We are here because we have our many glory years, while the Sabres because they are not capable of getting a good team. So I definitely think he wants to come here.

 

[Bench]

True. But not true.
Karlsson's warts had started showing. he was about to be a UFA.
At the time of the deal, it seemed Ottawa got ripped. But then Karlsson and the Sharks started to suck.
The cost to keep Karlsson, a declining asset, was going to be ridiculous.
Eichel will cost a lot. But he's a long, long ways away from being a truly declining asset.

Eichel may not be a declining asset, but you've already pointed out his warts. And to say nothing of his own injury issues.

I'm obviously nitpicking but I think that's justified if I'm ponying up the equivalent of three 1st round talents.

 

[Retire91]

Can we please just stay the course. It hasn't even had a chance to work yet. If we were going to blow our picks and depth on a magic bullet it should have been done 4-5 seasons ago.

 

[BSHH]

Reading that piece about him in The Athletic- Where did those questions about his character come from?

I guess he seems like an outspoken guy. As in, you say something that offends him and he might clap back publicly and honestly. Even if that bleeds into his dealings with coaches, management and ownership I wouldn't characterize that as character issues necessarily.

Being outspoken is no positive trait in this situation. Eichel has every right to be unhappy or even angry about the Sabres' decisions, but there is no need at all to voice his anger via the media. If he solely wants to solve the medical dispute, he better try to discuss it - or ideally have it discussed - behind closed doors.

Eichel certainly is (or can be) a sensational player. I would be on board with this Zadina/Bertuzzi, Veleno & 2 2021 1sts offer that has been suggested here. But I think Eichel's injury history, current conduct and lack of elevating that Sabres team are some red flags for me.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Run the Jewels]

I would trade Larkin for Eichel without a second thought. My package would be Larkin+Caps 1st+3rd (or a throw in prospect).

Max Bultman suggested they would want Seider. I would not do that deal with Eichel's injury history. I am fine with rolling the dice and seeing if you can get Barkov either via trade or free agency.

 

[Shaman464]

Max Bultman suggested they would want Seider. I would not do that deal with Eichel's injury history. I am fine with rolling the dice and seeing if you can get Barkov either via trade or free agency.

Quite a gamble. And I saw the article too, but I think a package around Larkin could be workable.