Jack Eichel

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

this lowers the actual cost of acquisition (at least for some/most teams & in my mind)...

as @Winger98 mentioned in another thread: (3 injuries)

"The laundry list of health issues with Eichel right now, though...I would want him on the Wings but I'm not sure how big of a price I'd be willing to give up for a guy with some sort of abdominal injury that's never been fixed, a herniated disk that may or may not need surgery, a cracked rib...I feel like there was a fourth thing?

I am really curious what exactly the abdominal thing is and why he was allowed to play with it..."


IF, and that's a big IF he gets a clean bill of health from DET's Dr.'s, then my offer:

'21 1st
'21 1st (WAS)
Bert (extended to a fair 4-5+yr deal)

 

[Nut Upstrom]

What is our current equivalent to Slava Kozlov?

Namestnikov?

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I don't think we could afford him

Depends if we are willing to take Skinner as part of the deal.

 

[Ricelund]

I think he'll end up with the Rangers or Kings.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think he'll end up with the Rangers or Kings.

Likewise

 

[GMR]

I doubt Eichel wants to play for Detroit. He probably wants to play for a legit NHL team. Not another perennial bottom dweller. If he's traded to Detroit against his will, that doesn't bode well for the Wings.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think he'll end up with the Rangers or Kings.

Yup this is my guess as well, They can overpay for him. We need to stand pat and not acquire Eichel.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

He’s not going to get nearly what you guys seem to think he is

He’s already 25, has a major injury and has never topped 90 points and who’s to say he doesn’t want out of here too after awhile?

 

[HisNoodliness]

I see three problems with trading for Eichel:

1. The Sabres and their fans want an arm, leg, torso, neck and head for him. I just don't think I'm willing to match what they're asking for. I have to think it would be a deal revolving around Larkin/Seider + 2021 ~7 OA + Raymond/Zadina. If he ends up traded for less than that I can maybe do it, but that's the official price right now.

2. We're also a rebuilding team. We can't surround him with the talent to succeed soon and it's likely he'll be unhappy in Detroit as well. Perhaps we're a better run franchise that will be more understanding of his health situation but I worry that Eichel would be out of the frying pan and into the fire.

3. The aforementioned injuries. The soft tissue unresolved abdominal injury that he's been playing through is exactly the type of injury that lingers and always has him in and out of the lineup. It should be manageable though. The broken rib and sprained ankle I'm not too worries about. The real deal breaker is the neck problem. Firstly I think Eichel has wholly unrealistic expectations for it:

“It’s a pretty quick recovery,” he said. “It’s not bad. It’s a quicker recovery." I don't think there is such a thing for a herniated disk in your neck. More than likely he's going to have chronic pain issues. I'm sure he'll have a world class surgeon, but if he thinks that he's ever going to fully recover, that it won't be that bad- he's almost certainly wrong.

I know an ortho guy that mostly does hips and knees but has the best patient satisfaction in Ontario. His secret has nothing to do with being a better surgeon. He tells the patient that their leg will never work right again. They'll probably have pain, their walk will be awkward and they'll likely need (a) revision(s). This way when they come back for their post-op and it's almost normal, they can walk, there's only mild discomfort and it's ten years before a revision, they're really happy. Surgeons that tell you it will be like it was before the problem just set you up for disappointment. I think if Eichel is expecting to fix instead of manage his neck problem, he doesn't understand the situation he's in.

That being said, Eichel is one of the best centers in the world and I think that'll continue to be the case. If we can get him for a package like Bertuzzi + Zadina/Raymond/Vrana + Tuo/Wallinder/Johansson + Was '21 1st then I'd happily make that trade. I think that's a big package but they're trading an elite piece for 2 great pieces and 2 good pieces. I think Buffalo can probably do better. Anymore than that and we're setting back our rebuild and Eichel will be gone by the time we're good. So that's my limit.

 

[14ari13]

Quick question: what does everyone make of the laundry list of injuries/surgeries Eichel has talked about having/needing? Off the top of my head he has

-a herniated disk in his neck that he wants to have surgery to "fix"
-an abdominal injury that may also require surgery
-a broken rib that hasn't healed
- anything else?

The injury issues along with the season Eichel just had while playing with those injury issues makes me think Buffalo is going to have a damn hard time getting serious value for Eichel. Maybe I'm alone on this but I'd be hesitant to deal anything significant with those injury issues up in the air. I mean, just look at the conversation we've been having about Bert and how his spinal surgery could affect his career. Now put a $10m + trade asset price tag on Bert.

I think Bench's offer of Bert/Zadina/1st is pretty close to what I'd want to offer for Eichel right now. If we're looking to swing that sort of deal...even then I'd be curious what else we could pull elsewhere with those pieces on the table. Neck and abdominal injuries don't make Winger happy when looking at trading for a guy.

I didn't know about these injuries.

You got to be kidding us, Yeah let's just give away all of our top potential scorers, So Eichel has no one to feed the puck to. In good times you're looking at potentially 80+ goals between those 3

Go to their board, offer whatever you think and then come back.
I would gladly give them Nielsen, Namestikov, Biega and Djoos, but we talk about the realistic trade.
You can't start negotiating without offering either 1st line player or a top pair defender. If we take Larkin a d Seider off the list, then we have to offer something good.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Eichel just doesn't fit Detroit's timeline. When the Wings hit their window, he'll be a year or two from UFA. There's no way Yzerman will give up Seider or a lottery pick in either the Wright/Lambert or the Bedard/Michkov draft, and I doubt the Sabres would trade Eichel for less (say, Larkin, Berggren and a 2nd or some such).

Eichel alters the Wings timeline. He gives you the hardest piece to acquire. If you can get him and hang on to some of your best young players, it really changes the dynamic because you believe you would have your 1C, your 2C, your young soon to be 1D in Seider, a really nice 2nd pair anchor in Hronek. All you’re looking to fill out is depth D and scoring wingers, which are the easiest to find in free agency.

now you’ve set the stage to go buy some UFAs. To go find your goalie.

 

[golffuul]

Eichel requires too much effort to enable his style of play. I honestly think Buffalo becomes a better team with him not being there. He’s a better complimentary piece to an existing core than as the face of a franchise type player. Combine that with our rebuild timeline and his contract length/UFA status, and it’s a hard pass from me. He’s never helped his team be better than 23rd in the standings and He has already had some pretty significant injuries. I think it’s buyer beware for anyone trading for him. I think Columbus definitely should be interested, though. It’s the kind of risk/reward that Kekalainen loves to take and then fail spectacularly with.

 

[Inspiration]

I'd be willing to move any asset in the organization (player, prospect, or draft pick) in a deal for Eichel. It's not a particularly difficult decision, either - aside from maybe Larkin (solely for off-ice reasons).

 

[Hen Kolland]

Eichel requires too much effort to enable his style of play. I honestly think Buffalo becomes a better team with him not being there. He’s a better complimentary piece to an existing core than as the face of a franchise type player. Combine that with our rebuild timeline and his contract length/UFA status, and it’s a hard pass from me. He’s never helped his team be better than 23rd in the standings and He has already had some pretty significant injuries. I think it’s buyer beware for anyone trading for him. I think Columbus definitely should be interested, though. It’s the kind of risk/reward that Kekalainen loves to take and then fail spectacularly with.

He's a better complimentary piece to an existing core....by coming in and being the best player and the face of the franchise.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I think we might be ahead of the Sabres right now in terms of having a framework to build around to be competitive. They have terrible contracts like Okposo and Skinner and we have only Nielsen and Dekeyser left to worry about and they really aren't much of a concern with only 1 year left. Skinner might be the worst contract in the NHL right now. They do have Eichel and Dahlin (who the jury appears to still be out on) who could be the two most valuable pieces in both organizations.

My offer:

Veleno
Zadina
2021 1st round pick (DET)
2021 1st round pick (WSH)

That probably won't be the best offer, but I think it is a lot closer than most believe. Buffalo gets two fine young players and two first round picks. If they trade Eichel they have to accept that they set their rebuild further back, but still get some assets.

Detroit then has a potentially solid PP and scoring line with Eichel, Vrana and co. and get to put Larkin in a much better slot to maximize his abilities.

 

[golffuul]

He's a better complimentary piece to an existing core....by coming in and being the best player and the face of the franchise.

Agree to disagree. I see him in the same vein as Taylor Hall, Max Pacioretty, and Phil Kessel. More successful players when the spotlight isn’t on them and working within another team’s structure. All three had good personal numbers, but were less successful when they were “the man” on their respective teams.

 

[jaster]

I'd like to complement this thread.

 

[Bench]

I have to think it would be a deal revolving around Larkin/Seider + 2021 ~7 OA + Raymond/Zadina. If he ends up traded for less than that I can maybe do it, but that's the official price right now.

If he's traded for anything remotely close to what you've outlined above, I'll eat my hat.

A top defensive prospect getting Hedman comparisons in Sweden, 7 overall (or higher), and a year removed #4 overall.

That would be like that Ducks moving Zegras, Drysdale, and this year's 1st. I just can't see this kind of return. Who could afford to gut their team to that degree?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I doubt either team will send a potentially a bigger star in return.


Bertuzzi, Zadina, Raymond and 1st and even this might not be good enough.
I too doubt strongly Yzerman would move Seider.
Vrana, Zadina, Raymond and 1st

These trades only make Buffalo better imo.

 

[HisNoodliness]

If he's traded for anything remotely close to what you've outlined above, I'll eat my hat.

A top defensive prospect getting Hedman comparisons in Sweden, 7 overall (or higher), and a year removed #4 overall.

That would be like that Ducks moving Zegras, Drysdale, and this year's 1st. I just can't see this kind of return. Who could afford to gut their team to that degree?

I honestly agree, but that's the reported asking price right now. I'm sure I'm negotiations it will go down somewhat but I think you're giving up a big package for Eichel and you're not going to be able to negotiate with Buffalo fans on the trade board without pieces like Larkin and Seider

 

[bellringer77]

I would do that if it's Washington's first.

Of course you would

 

[Bench]

I honestly agree, but that's the reported asking price right now. I'm sure I'm negotiations it will go down somewhat but I think you're giving up a big package for Eichel and you're not going to be able to negotiate with Buffalo fans on the trade board without pieces like Larkin and Seider

I could give two goose honks what people say on the trade forums.

I linked back to the Karlsson thread. Go take a look at the reactions and expected returns. Full laughing fest at the "joke" return Ottawa got.

Fast forward and I think they came away just fine. Stuetzle alone makes the deal worthwhile. Now add Josh Norris. They have another 2nd rounder still coming to them this year, too, I believe.

 

[bellringer77]

I honestly go back and forth with what I would be comfortable with. It wouldn’t feel good either way but you would have to be interested and willing to pay a decent price but I guess we are outbid easily

 

[HisNoodliness]

I could give two goose honks what people say on the trade forums.

I linked back to the Karlsson thread. Go take a look at the reactions and expected returns. Full laughing fest at the "joke" return Ottawa got.

Fast forward and I think they came away just fine. Stuetzle alone makes the deal worthwhile. Now add Josh Norris. They have another 2nd rounder still coming to them this year, too, I believe.

Yeah it's totally fair to disregard the trade boards. Not everyone does though so I think for anyone that goes there, it's worth it to remember that the deals Buffalo fans are going to want are going to be nuts.

I think it's unfair to judge the Karlsson trade knowing that San Jose bottomed out and the pick became 3rd OA. Sure there was always that risk when the trade was made and perhaps that weighed into the value a little, but I don't think anyone, including Ottawa, expected it to be any better than a 15th OA pick.

 

[pz29]

I doubt Eichel wants to play for Detroit. He probably wants to play for a legit NHL team. Not another perennial bottom dweller. If he's traded to Detroit against his will, that doesn't bode well for the Wings.

"Perennial bottom-dweller?" How long have you been a fan?