Jack Eichel Pt. 12 "Isn't it a Pittis"

[joshjull]

I never said that they would.

The point is that it is dumb to take any option that has the potential of increasing the return completely off the table.

Whether it is retaining salary or trading Eichel to a team in the Eastern Conference or Atlantic Division or anything else, none of it should be a non-starter to talks.

Once you get talks started, then you negotiate and take an offer that makes the most sense. Having non-starters could mean that you may never get to hear another team's best offer.

The bolded is not what you’ve been saying. You’ve been arguing , as have others, that retaining 1-2mil might land us a huge reward. But you also dismissed retaining 50% as crazy. Which contradicts the argument in the bolded.

Pretty hard to argue against the idea that Jack at a 5mil cap hit (50% retention) isn’t the best way to get max value in a return. But any trade that happens isn’t in a hypothetical world. So hanging on to cap from Jack for another 4 season beyond this one is a tough pill to swallow. Which is why I think you and others are creating a wishful thinking scenario. Where we can gain a ton with little pain.


The most likely scenario with the retention of only 1-2mil is it had to be done to make the cap numbers work. That it simply helps make a trade happen. Not that it leads to some amazing award coming our way.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

We aren't all the calls with Adams right, so everything we hear is rumor.

But what have we heard?

Colorado called, told no to retaining salary, no discussion

Teams asked for medical info earlier this year, Adams asked for a 'serious offer' first....discussion killed.

This is starting to feel like Adams is the guy on craigslist saying "No Lowballs, I Know what I've got" and trying to make a trade work that way, which might be why things have dragged out so long.

He should take a couple of seventh rounders and some salary dumps. Shame on him

 

[BuzzKillington90]

He should take a couple of seventh rounders and some salary dumps. Shame on him

Don't forget he should retain 20-50% of the contract so that he can force the trade.

 

[Jim Bob]

The bolded is not what you’ve been saying. You’ve been arguing , as have others, that retaining 1-2mil might land us a huge reward. But you also dismissed retaining 50% as crazy. Which contradicts the argument in the bolded.

Pretty hard to argue against the idea that Jack at a 5mil cap hit (50% retention) isn’t the best way to get max value in a return. But any trade that happens isn’t in a hypothetical world. So hanging on to cap from Jack for another 4 season beyond this one is a tough pill to swallow. Which is why I think you and others are creating a wishful thinking scenario. Where we can gain a ton with little pain.

The most likely scenario with the retention of only 1-2mil is it had to be done to make the cap numbers work. That it simply helps make a trade happen. Not that it leads to some amazing award coming our way.

I have not been arguing that retaining $1-2M would land the Sabres a huge return.

I have been arguing that $1-2M in retention wouldn't cause the Sabres huge cap issues in the future and it is dumb to take any talk of retention off the table.

Any "non-starters" are dumb. Whether it is retention, taking back any bad contracts, limiting trades to teams in the West, or whatever.

Then when you have offers, you balance everything the other team is offering and what they require to make things work cap-wise and you make a call based on the offer. Just don't start off by scaring teams away by not considering certain things, including retention.

 

[Selanne00008]

Sabres not even listening to an offer on "if" they retain is just dumb. I doubt it even happened like that.

If the Sabres don't retain, get a total crap return, then later take on cap for a 1st round pick before the deadline that would scream incompetence. I have some hope in the new org.

 

[member 334057]

I have been arguing that $1-2M in retention wouldn't cause the Sabres huge cap issues in the future and it is dumb to take any talk of retention off the table.

Completely agree. The Sabres may have to pay a handful of players before the Eichel deal expires but on their current trajectory I don't see any of them commanding high dollar contracts where the team will need that extra cap space.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

The Sabres will need immediate cap hits so that they do not fall below the cap floor once Eichel's $10M cap hit is moved out the door.

If the Sabres make a trade that drops them below the cap floor, NHL central registry will reject it.

There can be a difference between a cap dump and a useful roster player. That was my point

 

[Buffaloed]

I have not been arguing that retaining $1-2M would land the Sabres a huge return.

I have been arguing that $1-2M in retention wouldn't cause the Sabres huge cap issues in the future and it is dumb to take any talk of retention off the table.

Any "non-starters" are dumb. Whether it is retention, taking back any bad contracts, limiting trades to teams in the West, or whatever.

Then when you have offers, you balance everything the other team is offering and what they require to make things work cap-wise and you make a call based on the offer. Just don't start off by scaring teams away by not considering certain things, including retention.

I don't think Adams has a choice just as Botterill probably didn't with ROR. Terry Pegula won't contribute to the lifestyle of what he sees as disloyal players. If Eichel is still here when his $7.5 million bonus is due we're looking at a ROR type trade. It can really suck being a GM.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I have not been arguing that retaining $1-2M would land the Sabres a huge return.

I have been arguing that $1-2M in retention wouldn't cause the Sabres huge cap issues in the future and it is dumb to take any talk of retention off the table.

Any "non-starters" are dumb. Whether it is retention, taking back any bad contracts, limiting trades to teams in the West, or whatever.

Then when you have offers, you balance everything the other team is offering and what they require to make things work cap-wise and you make a call based on the offer. Just don't start off by scaring teams away by not considering certain things, including retention.

The Sabres are obviously willing to take contracts to make the cap work. But retaining for 5 years continues to be a load of nonsense. The other team's cap 5 years from now is their problem, not ours.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Tuch and Smith combine to make close to what Eichel does. Plus, they don't need to worry about the cap until Eichel comes off of LTIR.

Correct me if I'm wrong @dotcommunism

A team can't trade for a player and have him immediately on IR without needing his salary to fit under the cap.

The team has to be cap compliant while including the players salary. Then if they are, they can place him on IR and no longer count on the cap.

But you have to be initially within the cap while including the new players salary.

So Vegas still needs $10 million of cap space to fit Eichel in order to trade for him.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

There is no prospect worth any salary retention on Eichel period. Last year we were just under the salary cap. Two years ago we could not waive Hutton and call up another goalie because of salary cap. Eichel suspended or on ltir with 10’million cap relief is worth more

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

Risto and Reino netted
A 2021 first
2022 first
2022 second
Goalie prospect and hagg

No salary retention with both on possible one year deals. Reino as Rafa and risers 1 year

 

[Jim Bob]

Correct me if I'm wrong @dotcommunism

A team can't trade for a player and have him immediately on IR without needing his salary to fit under the cap.

The team has to be cap compliant while including the players salary. Then if they are, they can place him on IR and no longer count on the cap.

But you have to be initially within the cap while including the new players salary.

So Vegas still needs $10 million of cap space to fit Eichel in order to trade for him.

I wonder if that is the case since Eichel is already injured?

I haven't heard anyone in the media make that point.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I wonder if that is the case since Eichel is already injured?

I haven't heard anyone in the media make that point.

A mod on these forums mentioned it in one of the many Eichel threads. It's possible that I misinterpreted it, which is why I'm asking if it is correct.

Edit for clarification: it wasn't a mod on the Sabres forums. It was in the trade forums.

 

[elchud]

There is nothing to support the idea that retaining 1-2mil will land us Krebs

Well we are all talking hypothetically here.

Teams retain on salary all the time. Granted 5 years is exceptionally long term...but not many 5 years 10 million players get traded.

Vegas may have another trade that adds salary that they may want to make on a deadline deal.

All I am saying is depending upon the return I'm not opposed to retaining up to 2 million. And for 2 million it needs to be a hell of a return. I dont think we will retain salary. I dont think another team will want to pay a steep price for us to retain salary. So all of this is probably moot.

This team can afford to retain salary so why the concept must be off the table and anathema is kinda strange. But since this is all most likely moot no sense circling the drain on this one. And everyone who doesn't want to retain salary...neither does Terry P. So you have that in common which should settle it, you got that going for you. If you can't be pro tank be pro yacht.

 

[Jacob582]

Correct me if I'm wrong @dotcommunism

A team can't trade for a player and have him immediately on IR without needing his salary to fit under the cap.

The team has to be cap compliant while including the players salary. Then if they are, they can place him on IR and no longer count on the cap.

But you have to be initially within the cap while including the new players salary.

So Vegas still needs $10 million of cap space to fit Eichel in order to trade for him.

A traded player doesn't arrive on the new team on the IR. They need to have the space. Then they can put him on IR or LTIR.

 

[oldgoalie]

Time to Slava Kozlov this thread.

 

[Zman5778]

Continue here:
Jack Eichel, Part 13. "Novotny knows the trouble we've seen"