Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 1

[sabrebuild]

Yes he would. He's effortless. That PK goal Tuesday night where he looks like he's hardly trying yet blows past the defenders who can't catch up sums it up.

That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve or work harder on his defensive focus. But much of the effort narrative is impacted by his skating style.

I’m totally open to the big guys get unfairly criticized for long strides, and his case excellent posture that looks odd. I am about his height and remember similar criticism as a youth.

But the difference from an actual speed and decisive move when he sees an opportunity to score vs an opportunity to shut someone down is very noticeable.

Let’s take an example from last game, preseason so take it with a grain of salt.

First his goal. At no point does he pump his arms like a maniac, but as soon as he recognizes the loose puck in the neutral zone and the defender in front of him, he immediately takes 3 hard steps to get in front of the Pen and from there easy peasy.

Same game, let’s look at his penalty. Pretty weak call, looks like it might not have even hit the guy, but the cause of it is exactly what some of us mean by his lack of intensity on defense. The puck is in the corner as a pen scoops it up, Eichel is inside the circle about two strides from the pen as they have their back to him. He glides towards his man, and then reaches for a stick lift/poke. Unfortunately misses by a lil bit and gets a call.

Now, the exact same two stride movement that he used in the transition play, applied to the man in the corner, would have allowed him to close the distance, pin his man to the wall avoiding the risk of a stick lift. And then he could move the puck or get help having killed any risk without putting in a huge effort.

Now we can call it preseason, but it strikes me that this is relatively common for him, and is the type of play that irks many of us who know he could do better and get tremendous results do to his ceiling free physical ability.

 

[Robls]

I’m totally open to the big guys get unfairly criticized for long strides, and his case excellent posture that looks odd. I am about his height and remember similar criticism as a youth.

But the difference from an actual speed and decisive move when he sees an opportunity to score vs an opportunity to shut someone down is very noticeable.

Let’s take an example from last game, preseason so take it with a grain of salt.

First his goal. At no point does he pump his arms like a maniac, but as soon as he recognizes the loose puck in the neutral zone and the defender in front of him, he immediately takes 3 hard steps to get in front of the Pen and from there easy peasy.

Same game, let’s look at his penalty. Pretty weak call, looks like it might not have even hit the guy, but the cause of it is exactly what some of us mean by his lack of intensity on defense. The puck is in the corner as a pen scoops it up, Eichel is inside the circle about two strides from the pen as they have their back to him. He glides towards his man, and then reaches for a stick lift/poke. Unfortunately misses by a lil bit and gets a call.

Now, the exact same two stride movement that he used in the transition play, applied to the man in the corner, would have allowed him to close the distance, pin his man to the wall avoiding the risk of a stick lift. And then he could move the puck or get help having killed any risk without putting in a huge effort.

Now we can call it preseason, but it strikes me that this is relatively common for him, and is the type of play that irks many of us who know he could do better and get tremendous results do to his ceiling free physical ability.

These are bad habits picked up through years from being the best player on the ice. Like I stated in a post above, seems like he is playing a summer pickup game, where fancy plays and coasting on defense are the norm. Don't expect him to be Bergeron or Kopitar, but have a clue in your own end.

 

[sabrebuild]

These are bad habits picked up through years from being the best player on the ice. Like I stated in a post above, seems like he is playing a summer pickup game, where fancy plays and coasting on defense are the norm. Don't expect him to be Bergeron or Kopitar, but have a clue in your own end.

I have kinda had a similar thought to it, reminds me of Tim Tebow in a weird way. Such a physically gifted player that at lower levels coaches just told him go score and don’t worry about anything else. For Tebow it was don’t worry about mechanics or staying in the pocket l, just win baby.

It’s been an enormous disservice to his ability. You can look at Asplund and see a guy who is so far ahead of Jack on defense, despite being younger with no nhl experience.

Personally I don’t think he has the natural processing speed and puck skills to compete with McDavid regularly for an Art Ross. But he does have the physical tools to be on the same level if he built the defense up. I mean, there is no Center in the league that can match his size, speed and strength combination.

I look at Kopitar last year and I think, that should be a standard Prime Eichel season, with more gamebreaking ability.

It’s so tantalizing and just a mindset flip away.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Yes he would. He's effortless. That PK goal Tuesday night where he looks like he's hardly trying yet blows past the defenders who can't catch up sums it up.

That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve or work harder on his defensive focus. But much of the effort narrative is impacted by his skating style.

100% agree. If you watch closely (and know what to look for), you can see he's put a LOT of effort into his edge work to be able to have that kind of speed without expending the extra energy of taking strides, but a lot of people just see his feet staying on the ice and think he's lazy/not trying.

 

[Gabrielor]

100% agree. If you watch closely (and know what to look for), you can see he's put a LOT of effort into his edge work to be able to have that kind of speed without expending the extra energy of taking strides, but a lot of people just see his feet staying on the ice and think he's lazy/not trying.

Personally, I’ve gotten used to his skating style, it’s his stick use that stands out to me (the lack of it defensively), and when he skates by guys with the puck and doesn’t challenge them.

 

[brian_griffin]

Personally, I’ve gotten used to his skating style, it’s his stick use that stands out to me (the lack of it defensively), and when he skates by guys with the puck and doesn’t challenge them.

For me it's losing his mark (or never truly finding it) in a box drawn from the faceoff hashes, circle-to-circle, and down to the goal line, and in particular when his mark doesn't have the puck. That rectangle is a defensive Bermuda Triangle for him. He gets lost in there. Too often, he'll pass off his man to the defense but then not pick up a trailer. Note: I never played organized hockey, so I could be looking at this wrongly. But you see it on his face too often when the guy standing within a stick-length of him pounces on a loose puck, or quick back-pass from behind the goal, for a relatively easy score.

Some of that is lack of active stick / stick work, as @Gabrielor noted.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

For me it's losing his mark (or never truly finding it) in a box drawn from the faceoff hashes, circle-to-circle, and down to the goal line, and in particular when his mark doesn't have the puck. That rectangle is a defensive Bermuda Triangle for him. He gets lost in there. Too often, he'll pass off his man to the defense but then not pick up a trailer. Note: I never played organized hockey, so I could be looking at this wrongly. But you see it on his face too often when the guy standing within a stick-length of him pounces on a loose puck, or quick back-pass from behind the goal, for a relatively easy score.

Some of that is lack of active stick / stick work, as @Gabrielor noted.

The best part is that we’ve seen these tendencies lead to bad defense over the past three seasons, and we still don’t know how much of it is actually being lost, and how much is trying to conserve energy.

Plus, our coaches don’t seem to realize that Eichel’s line is consistently a GA factory, and keep sticking him with other bad defensive players.

 

[brian_griffin]

The best part is that we’ve seen these tendencies lead to bad defense over the past three seasons, and we still don’t know how much of it is actually being lost, and how much is trying to conserve energy.

Plus, our coaches don’t seem to realize that Eichel’s line is consistently a GA factory, and keep sticking him with other bad defensive players.

I just think his down-low, above-the-goal-line, in-the-slot and to-the-sides-of-the-crease-defense is something he doesn't focus on. He's plenty strong enough and knows how to get good position / stance, he just doesn't seem to commit to it. I think he CAN do it - because he does work below the goal line, and in the corners in active pursuit of the puck. It's in the passive mark-your-man-and-let-your teammates take the 1-on-1 or 2-on-1 battle "patience" where he snoozes or becomes too passive, IMO.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Let's just put Asplund on his wing, like I've recommended for a while, and problem solved.

 

[Dingo44]

Let's just put Asplund on his wing, like I've recommended for a while, and problem solved.

Asplund could take the faceoffs...not a bad idea. Can Asplund finish?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Asplund could take the faceoffs...not a bad idea. Can Asplund finish?

Never trust a Swede to Finnish

 

[Dingo44]

Never trust a Swede to Finnish

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Watched Edmonton with a good lineup play Winnipeg last night. I realized the difference between Eichel and McDavid/Crosby/Matthews - they all play angry, like somebody stole their lunch money. Eichel's the kind of guy who would steal their lunch money. Gretzky was the same, angry crybaby types who want to prove themselves every shift. I don't see Eichel having the type of personality where he has to prove himself to anybody.

Dahlin thankfully is cut from the same cloth as McDavid and Crosby, nerdy and angry.

 

[Gabrielor]

Let's just put Asplund on his wing, like I've recommended for a while, and problem solved.

I’m actually hyper supportive of this. Hopefully we see it this year.

Also, now that I’m more familiar with Tage, I like him on Eichels right for the same reasons I wanted to trade for Tuch for a few years.

Asplund Eichel Thompson

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

At least a third of Eichel’s minutes over the past three seasons should have come with O’Reilly, but our organization is dumb.

Now that we sold the house before ever opening that door, Berglund and Asplund are the next logical replacements.

 

[Icicle]

Watched Edmonton with a good lineup play Winnipeg last night. I realized the difference between Eichel and McDavid/Crosby/Matthews - they all play angry, like somebody stole their lunch money. Eichel's the kind of guy who would steal their lunch money. Gretzky was the same, angry crybaby types who want to prove themselves every shift. I don't see Eichel having the type of personality where he has to prove himself to anybody.

Dahlin thankfully is cut from the same cloth as McDavid and Crosby, nerdy and angry.

Dahlin may be the best thing for Eichel. If anything is going to get him angry enough to play with fire in the belly, it’s someone showing him up on the same ice with the same excuses.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Asplund could take the faceoffs...not a bad idea. Can Asplund finish?

I think Asplund has a Arvidsson type game. He's not a natural finisher but he'll score.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I’m actually hyper supportive of this. Hopefully we see it this year.

Also, now that I’m more familiar with Tage, I like him on Eichels right for the same reasons I wanted to trade for Tuch for a few years.

Asplund Eichel Thompson

That's the line I was thinking about for the future.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think Asplund has a Arvidsson type game. He's not a natural finisher but he'll score.

Haven’t seen him enough to know his tendencies, but he looked pretty comfortable on that breakaway in the prospect tourney.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Haven’t seen him enough to know his tendencies, but he looked pretty comfortable on that breakaway in the prospect tourney.

Well, yeah. Huge difference between a breakaway and consistently getting to scoring positions and picking corners.

Skilled NHLers will find some success on breakaways. Guys with the release and instincts to consistently score aren't as plentiful. It's why a guy like Olofsson generates so much anticipation on getting to the NHL.

 

[tsujimoto74]

That's the line I was thinking about for the future.

I wouldn't mind seeing that line now. Or Asplund - Eichel - Reinhart. We've gotten a look at Skinner-Eichel already, and we obviously can't get a look at Sheary on that line since he's hurt. Might as well give Rasmus a look there in the preseason. Based on his play so far, he's earned that kind of opportunity.

 

[sabrebuild]

Well, yeah. Huge difference between a breakaway and consistently getting to scoring positions and picking corners.

Skilled NHLers will find some success on breakaways. Guys with the release and instincts to consistently score aren't as plentiful. It's why a guy like Olofsson generates so much anticipation on getting to the NHL.

Agreed, I just liked his relaxed feel. I’ve seen plenty of nhlers freeze up with that much time and space, particularly your typical defensive bottom 6 guy.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[old kummelweck]

anyone have any metrics on Eichel's FO% from pre-season? He looked MUCH improved.

 

[Flash20]

Can we just name him the captain already only in buffalo they wait

I would like to get the C on the jersey already