Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 1

[OkimLom]

Am I the only one that hates seeing Eichel backcheck?
I'm not paying this guy 10 million to do things that someone making 2 million can do. And if he is exerting half of his energy doing this, then there is a problem with the guys that are specifically paid to do this. I am against the notion of turning every guy that has Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure, etc potential into a Bergeron.

My God, a good portion our fanbase is slowly becoming our Head Coach...Screw Defense, just offense.

 

[Jim Bob]

The problem is that Eichel’s offense-only phase hasn’t been as productive as any of those players.

He's not that far off from Modano.

After their first three NHL seasons:

Eichel 0.85 PPG
Modano 0.92 PPG

That's just 6 points over the course of 82 games.

 

[joshjull]

He's not that far off from Modano.

After their first three NHL seasons:

Eichel 0.85 PPG
Modano 0.92 PPG

That's just 6 points over the course of 82 games.

And Modano did that in an era with far more offense

 

[joshjull]

My God, a good portion our fanbase is slowly becoming our Head Coach...Screw Defense, just offense.

That's never been an approach from our coach. nor does a good portion of our fan base say screw defense , just offense.

 

[Jame]

Am I the only one that hates seeing Eichel backcheck?
I'm not paying this guy 10 million to do things that someone making 2 million can do. And if he is exerting half of his energy doing this, then there is a problem with the guys that are specifically paid to do this. I am against the notion of turning every guy that has Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure, etc potential into a Bergeron.

I don't know what's funnier.... the "hating Eichel backchecking part" or the "Eichel has Gretzky/Lemieux potential" part....

You have zero chance of winning a cup in today's game if your best players don't play a 200 ft game.

 

[Dingo44]

It's more Hanifin than Eichel other than it's fun to see Jack crack up. This story from their NTDP days rules.

 

[joshjull]

I wonder if Jack had a different skating style, he would be considered as a more intense player.

Yes he would. He's effortless. That PK goal Tuesday night where he looks like he's hardly trying yet blows past the defenders who can't catch up sums it up.

That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve or work harder on his defensive focus. But much of the effort narrative is impacted by his skating style.

 

[Jame]

I prefer he lie down at the blue line and then give a tongue lashing to the rest of the guys for having him endure that. The team should exploit his strengths and not the other way around, because we sure did have alot of players of his potential in the last 20 years.


Eichel back checking is like me sitting in traffic in my Ferrari. Value well spent. It's not that it's bad thing for Eichel to back check, it just means that there is an issue elsewhere and we are solving it by getting our lead scientist to sweep the floors.



I prefer he lie down at the blue line and preserve his energy. What I am trying to say is that when you have a talent like Eichel or Dahlin, you build to their strengths and not the other way around. I can't wait to look back in ten years and reminiscent on the times I spent in traffic in my Ferrari. Eichel is a Ferrari and should not have a wagon hooked up to him.

We should give Dahlin s***for trying to dance the blueline. Bench him and force him into becoming Chara. It sure as hell worked out for Myers.



Ok. So we should have traded away that 2nd overall pick. Imagine how much value we would have gotten in return, but now we are forced to try and possibly hinder a guy's strength so that he can fit a stereotype. What a waste of value.

I rather have a guy put up 100 points, sleep on the blueline, sell jerseys and kiss babies.


If he is stuck in our end, then there is an issue with the whole team and we are wasting the potential of a generational player.

This is the most bizarre argument I've read in ages....

 

[Reddawg]

This is the most bizarre argument I've read in ages....

I'm pretty sure his tongue is so firmly in his cheek that it's poking a hole.

 

[Jame]

Yes he would. He's effortless. That PK goal Tuesday night where he looks like he's hardly trying yet blows past the defenders who can't catch up sums it up.

That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve or work harder on his defensive focus. But much of the effort narrative is impacted by his skating style.

I think Jack lacks intensity... and it has nothing to do with effort/skating.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I don't know what's funnier.... the "hating Eichel backchecking part" or the "Eichel has Gretzky/Lemieux potential" part....

You have zero chance of winning a cup in today's game if your best players don't play a 200 ft game.

Phil Kessel.

I’d rather them explore the upper bounds of Eichel’s offensive production than ask him to handle the standard center’s defensive workload, especially when it looks like he’ll be paired with another player who takes shifts off for the fourth year in a row.

We have way more information that Eichel is producing like 75-80% of what he would given optimal deployments, than we do that Jack can up his defensive game in a way that also offsets a Skinner/Kane.

 

[Robls]

I think Jack lacks intensity... and it has nothing to do with effort/skating.

When I watch him play, it seems like he playing in a summer league pickup game. A lot of looking for the perfect pass, and floating on defense. Hopefully he will change in the regular season.

 

[Jame]

Phil Kessel.

I’d rather them explore the upper bounds of Eichel’s offensive production than ask him to handle the standard center’s defensive workload, especially when it looks like he’ll be paired with another player who takes shifts off for the fourth year in a row.

We have way more information that Eichel is producing like 75-80% of what he would given optimal deployments, than we do that Jack can up his defensive game in a way that also offsets a Skinner/Kane.

BS. You know there's a huge difference between putting a 1 dimensional winger on the 3rd line.... and the role Eichel is meant to play.

You can't win a playoff series if your #1 franchise center doesn't backcheck Crosby... while Crosby backchecks the shit out of him.

 

[sabrebuild]

Eichel’s defense will come with more experience. People dogged Crosby’s defense for years while he was putting up 100+ pts. Now as a seasoned vet he’s a great two way center that still puts up top tier point totals.

Babcock deserves credit with how he’s handled Matthews/Nylander/Marner — knowing that Nylander and Marner were offense first players, he puts up with some of their defensive lapses because they are so creative offensively.

Eichel wants to be, and the Sabres need him to be, a top five center in the NHL. The best way to do that is by being amazing offensively and defensively. Eichel has all the tools to be great in his own zone, but we need to do that without paralyzing him on offense. That takes time.

Minor difference between Eichel and Crosby, was Crosby was leading the league in scoring when people thought his defense was a weakness.

Eichel hasn’t broken ppg for a whole season yet.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

BS. You know there's a huge difference between putting a 1 dimensional winger on the 3rd line.... and the role Eichel is meant to play.

You can't win a playoff series if your #1 franchise center doesn't backcheck Crosby... while Crosby backchecks the **** out of him.

And a big part of the Pens Cups under Sullivan was relaxing Sid’s defensive responsibility and letting him take risks with leaving the zone early.

I get your point, but I think there’s a lot of value in playing Eichel in an offense-only role, because he hasn’t capped out his production and we know he’s already at least great at scoring.

 

[joshjull]

And a big part of the Pens Cups under Sullivan was relaxing Sid’s defensive responsibility and letting him take risks with leaving the zone early.

I get your point, but I think there’s a lot of value in playing Eichel in an offense-only role, because he hasn’t capped out his production and we know he’s already at least great at scoring.

Sullivan didn't do that with Crosby.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Sullivan didn't do that with Crosby.

Yes he did.

 

[Der Jaeger]

And a big part of the Pens Cups under Sullivan was relaxing Sid’s defensive responsibility and letting him take risks with leaving the zone early.

I get your point, but I think there’s a lot of value in playing Eichel in an offense-only role, because he hasn’t capped out his production and we know he’s already at least great at scoring.

The Pens went away from man-on-man defense and to a zone where they protected the trapezoid at all costs to lower HDSCA. In that scheme, the center "shadows" the puck carrier and defender around, waiting for an opportunity to get the puck away. It's super effective with an offensive minded center, and leads to easy breakouts.

 

[joshjull]

Yes he did.

For starters "leaving the zone early" is not a thing for the center role in their system or any system for that matter. Malkin got more Ozone focused shifts not Crosby.

The Pens went away from man-on-man defense and to a zone where they protected the trapezoid at all costs to lower HDSCA. In that scheme, the center "shadows" the puck carrier and defender around, waiting for an opportunity to get the puck away. It's super effective with an offensive minded center, and leads to easy breakouts.

Yep and in no way leads to the center being allowed too leave early.

 

[truthbluth]

Jack doesn't have to be Bergeron, but he gets caved in playing the D zone like a below replacement level player. I don't see how anyone can argue that this is an acceptable state of affairs from our only legit top 6 center/$10 million franchise player.

 

[joshjull]

BS. You know there's a huge difference between putting a 1 dimensional winger on the 3rd line.... and the role Eichel is meant to play.

You can't win a playoff series if your #1 franchise center doesn't backcheck Crosby... while Crosby backchecks the **** out of him.

Agreed. Jack needs to keep rounding out his overall game until he is consistently reliable in all 3 zones.

 

[joshjull]

Jack doesn't have to be Bergeron, but he gets caved in playing the D zone like a below replacement level player. I don't see how anyone can argue that this is an acceptable state of affairs from our only legit top 6 center/$10 million franchise player.

Jack needs to improve as do the 4 guys around him. Every 5v5 stat for a player is impacted by the 5 skaters. Throw in the goalie for the goal stats and make it 6 for those. That's not an excuse that's just reality. Jack improving defensively and offensively as well as a better surrounding cast will lead to him not getting "caved in" 5v5.

 

[darcyRegier]

Saw this gem while looking for a different video...look at who else is on the ice with Jack (Moulson, Foligno, Falk, and Georges)

 

[hizzoner]

Am I the only one that hates seeing Eichel backcheck?
I'm not paying this guy 10 million to do things that someone making 2 million can do. And if he is exerting half of his energy doing this, then there is a problem with the guys that are specifically paid to do this. I am against the notion of turning every guy that has Gretzky, Lemieux, Bure, etc potential into a Bergeron.

I expect a ten million dollar player to be a complete player. I expect him to come back and pickup his man. I expect him to cover his man in the D zone but break quickly--maybe even cheat a bit when it looks like a Sabre--e.g. Dahlin gets the puck.. ALL star players are expected to help out on D.. Some are better than others. When Jack scores 70 goals or gets 200 points in a year a la Gretzky I will be very forgiving when he does not. Teammates do not like "basket hangers" and I do not think Jack wants to be one.

 

[Jame]

And a big part of the Pens Cups under Sullivan was relaxing Sid’s defensive responsibility and letting him take risks with leaving the zone early.

I get your point, but I think there’s a lot of value in playing Eichel in an offense-only role, because he hasn’t capped out his production and we know he’s already at least great at scoring.

Leaving the D zone early, has nothing to do with backchecking hard.