snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
- Dec 28, 2015
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Jack Eichel or Austin Matthews 17/18
- Thread starter mintmint
- Start date
Can Sabres fans fill me in on what was so horrendous about Bylsma? As for the person pointing out Reinhart's 5% shooting, please save us. We had to deal with Hyman. Atleast Reinhart isn't a bottom 6er playing with Eichel.
TheStorm
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The Winter Soldier
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X66
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Nope, the poster you quoted doesn't understand the conversation.
Hyman shot 4.5% at 5v5, which was obvious when you look at what I quoted.
Hopefully he pays more attention.
The Winter Soldier
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X66
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For starters, the poster who I originally quoted would understand that Hyman shot 4.5% at 5v5 because he had brought up Reinhart 5v5.
Secondly, just admit you jumped the gun and you were wrong bud. I do think you should take more time before you post, there is often a lot of misinformation in your posts.
Do your research.
Secondly, just admit you jumped the gun and you were wrong bud. I do think you should take more time before you post, there is often a lot of misinformation in your posts.
Do your research.
Muston Atthews
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Mattilaus
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So you come in and spout garbage like "Eichel has never had more assists than Matthews" to try and paint a narrative and when someone calls you on your blatant lie you call them irrational? Okay, we're done here.
X66
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That he had 4 SHG
Can't take the guy seriously though, he doesn't do any research when he posts.
Let me guess, the guy you saw play 82 is better then the guy you saw play 3 times live and a bunch on TV?
The Winter Soldier
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So you admit that Hyman shot 6.4% on the whole year last season without the benefits of the PP. I know you want to cite the lowest possible shooting % to bring home your narrative. But part of the picture is not the whole picture. Some like all the information. Where Nylander shot 10.7% and Brown 14.4% last year but ignore these stats also.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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No, he wants to cite the shooting percentage that's related to his time playing with Matthews since that's the discussion
X66
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It's getting embarrassing now.
He still fails to realize the original poster was talking to was discussing 5v5 shooting exclusively.
Just admit you're wrong, bud. Move on, you jumped the gun. Just take a bit more time and thought before posting in a reactionary manner.
The Winter Soldier
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It's getting embarrassing now.
He still fails to realize the original poster was talking to was discussing 5v5 shooting exclusively.
Just admit you're wrong, bud. Move on, you jumped the gun. Just take a bit more time and thought before posting in a reactionary manner.
Are you saying Hyman is a better shooter without Matthews than with him by continually ignoring his higher shooting % without PP time in all situations. It seems to me you are. Most would tell you playing on the PP increases a shooting %. What was Nylander's shooting % and Brown's shooting %'s last year?
That sounds like a good plan, as long as you have last change. Unfortunately it's not the players coach that decides who is a 1c and who is a 2c, its the opponents coach half the time.
I've probably watched Eichel 30-35 times (3-4 times last season) live and Matthews about the same. Been watching both since their USDP days. So thanks for guessing and no I have a large enough sample size watching them both live and on TV to make a fair assessment. I'm sure you've done extensive research and have had extensive # of viewing of both players to make an educated decision.
I'm sure you don't like my assessment of Eichel since he's your star but if you can't point out his shortcomings that's to your detriment not mine. Eichel is a fine offensive player but he's far away from a complete dominant 2 way C that contenders require. Be glad you guys have ROR to fall back on, if he wasn't there, Buffalo would've won the lottery this year and next year.
I've probably watched Eichel 30-35 times (3-4 times last season) live and Matthews about the same. Been watching both since their USDP days. So thanks for guessing and no I have a large enough sample size watching them both live and on TV to make a fair assessment. I'm sure you've done extensive research and have had extensive # of viewing of both players to make an educated decision.
I'm sure you don't like my assessment of Eichel since he's your star but if you can't point out his shortcomings that's to your detriment not mine. Eichel is a fine offensive player but he's far away from a complete dominant 2 way C that contenders require. Be glad you guys have ROR to fall back on, if he wasn't there, Buffalo would've won the lottery this year and next year.
30-35 times is not enough to make a fair assessment of either, and Eichel took huge strides in his defensive game last year. His stick positioning and ability to close off lanes quickly is very good, and if he wants to focus on his defensive game further that's fine, but I think most Buffalo fans know where his shortcomings are and are totally fine with his growth to this point. Bylsma's system was bad, and his injury hampered him most if not all season. He honestly gave up after the losses to Colorado and Arizona right when all the nonsense about a fractured lockeroom and players unwilling to buy in to Bylsma started.Not like he stopped playing, he just wasn't showing the emotion he had after coming back, and he needs to fix that.
The fact is we do have ROR to handle those matchup when possible and it allows Eichel to do what Eichel does. Matthews is better in corners and the dirty areas with his stick handling and positioning. Eichel has speed and explosiveness that Matthews will never have, and strength Matthews hasn't shown to this point but he can certainly bulk up. Where Matthews will cross you up, Eichel will blow past or through you. It's not flash and dash, its talent, and he offers much more then just that.
They play different style games completely and excel in areas the other is comparatively weak. Your assessment makes it seem like the thread title is Matthews vs Larkin. Rational Leafs and Sabres fans will tell you they're close as can be, but you saw them each play a handful of games so I guess everyone else is wrong.
First off, enough with the Bylsma complaints. I've seen Eichel play under 4 coaches now and his playing style hasn't changed under any of them. Team success is irrelevant when I'm talking about individual playing style and on ice effort.
Secondly, I've watched them over the past 5-6 seasons. I've seen the progression in their game and I've seen the lack of development in some aspects. Matthews was a horse with an unstoppable motor 5 years ago and he still is one now. Eichel likes to float still, that hasn't changed much. Eichel will never have Matthews'motor, just like Matthews may never have Eichel's speed and physical attributes.
Lastly, don't excuse his lacklustre play by saying you have ROR there to do the dirty work. I personally am a big fan of both players and I want to see Eichel do well. I have just been frustrated too many times. He has all the talent in the world but fails to give a **** when it counts. I hope Sabres fans hold him to a higher standard.
Eichel reminds me of what Tyler Seguin is. Offensive dynamo with inconsistent two way play. Matthews is a Benn/ Crosby. Two way elite grinder who can put up points. Yes both are different players and I don't think Matthews is miles ahead of Eichel, but as a complete center, I'm sorry but there is a gap there in Matthews' favor.
Dustin
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As someone who has watched them both over that many years, how has their development been?
I've seen more than enough stats showing me who's been better over the last years thanks to the almost daily Eichel vs Matthews threads but I am more interested in learning about actual on ice development. You say Matthews was a work horse before which is something that I think gets overlooked a lot but particularly what have you seen each player improve at?
I can say that after watching Matthews all last year it didn't take long for him to adapt to NHL positioning. By about the 20 game mark, he was rarely out of position and by the half way mark he anticipating where the puck would be at an even better level.
I have not seen nearly enough of Eichel to even remotely suggest any development but the things I have seen are pretty amazing. He enters the offensive zone pretty much undisturbed and like most of the truly elite players when he has the puck he is absolutely deadly.
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TDK67
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It's getting embarrassing now.
He still fails to realize the original poster was talking to was discussing 5v5 shooting exclusively.
Just admit you're wrong, bud. Move on, you jumped the gun. Just take a bit more time and thought before posting in a reactionary manner.
TWS just can't help getting roasted when facts/data come into play.
Good job. Big "W" for you and yet another huge "L" for him.
Eichel:
Skating:
He was a very good skater back then but had a really weird choppy stride but would accelerate like few others could. He has cleaned up his skating a ton though since the first time I watched him. Other then that, he's always used his skating to his advantage, by slowing down his speed and then exploding past defenders who are left on their heels. Eichel never blew through people as much as he loved to go wide on them.
Shot:
Elite. This kid's shot was probably the biggest thing I noticed at a young age. He hasn't used it much in the NHL for whatever reason but he can absolute rip it and pick corners from ways out. For those who have a love affair for Laine's shot, I think they would really appreciate Eichel's arsenal as well.
Playmaking:
He always had the puck and used to have a tendency to hold on to it a little too long. People didn't really care because most of the time he was the best option on the ice anyway and he always made something happen. Over time though, I think he has developed a few bad habits interms of wanting to go on solo missions. He can dish it with the best of them but more often then not, when its really crunch time, he'll force a shot then pass it off.
Defense:
The only time I would see Eichel in the defensive zone, it was on the PP or the odd time when the team was trying to breakout from their own zone. He was an okay defender when back checking because of his speed and strength but more often then not, he'd give it one shot and give up if he was unsuccessful at stripping the puck. Nothing much has changed since then. He's gotten better with trying to get his stick in passing lanes these days but overall, it almost feels like he can't be bothered to play D at times. He used to cheat for breakaways in juniors and NCAA and he still did it when I watched him play.
Competitiveness:
Very competitive, and would try to go solo/ hero mode when the team was down. He knew he was a star and at times was selfish. He's improved a ton in-terms of his overall team play but I see that even now, he still has a bit of a tough time adjusting to his teammates. He still goes on solo/hero missions though. I guess this time, it's not about him being the star (with little to no consequences) but instead having crappier teammates/ trust issues? Idk.
Even in games Eichel wasn't involved in a whole lot, he'd still end up with a couple points at the end of the night. He was just one of those players. Very offensively oriented but would often lose track of the fact that it is a team sport at the end of the day. He came off as a bit of a primadonna at times to us but I think that was just the over the top confidence at times.
Matthews:
Many of us had heard of the kid but he was always a dark horse prospect.
Skating:
Very agile, tough to knock off but used to have a very long stride. He was impressively strong on his skates though. He wouldn't blow you away with his skating though, but he would always end up in the right spot when he needed to be there. For many of us, including myself, I honestly thought his playing career would take a huge hit when he broke his femur. Specially for a kid that likes to move around and make so many pivots, I thought the injury would really affect his game. When he came back, he shortened his strides, not sure if it was adjustment post injury or something new he was trying to do but he went from a much more cerebral player to pushing the pace and always being on the go. Players could catch Auston, but they were never able to pin him. His constant motor and his quick feet always allowed him to be super elusive. His skating has come a very long way and I still think he can add another extra step.
Shot:
Shooting machine. As he is now, he has always been a shooting gallery for every team he has played on. He likes to generate chances and he was never afraid to pepper the net. Matthews doesn't have the hardest shot out there but his shots are accurate and they are very deceptive. I've seen him make the goalies look foolish. Even talking to some goalies afterwards, you can hear them say that they saw the puck the entire way and tracked it to the net but somehow it still beat them. He would always find the high % shooting areas. The kid used to have a very good slapshot back in the day, I'm not sure what happened to that. I haven't seen him take many slapshots recently. Other then his actual shooting abilities though, he's a premier garbage man. The kid knows how to score and he knows where to find the goals. It's amazing how prolific a scorer he is with the shot arsenal he possesses.
Playmaking:
Probably one of his biggest strengths. Regardless of who he is playing with, Matthews always makes his lines work. He loves to distribute the puck and get his teammates involved. You'll see him make at least a couple of slick cross crease passes to a wide open teammate. There have been so many goals scored by his line mates where all they had to do was stand beside the net and just clean up the garbage or tap in an easy pass. He still has the same vision and passing abilities, I know this season he was snakebit and his assist totals suffered but Auston has always been a 50 G - 55 A type guy. He's not going to blow away in one specific category though, because he's out there cleaning up with his line mates. When I first watched Auston play, he was a typical 2 way center who preferred to dish the puck and take care of the D-zone but he has over the years really learned to push the pace and get much more involved in the offensive zone.
Defense:
First game I ever watched him play, he was starting on the 3rd line playing in a defensive role. He played it safe for most of the game. Didn't take any unnecessary chances or put his team at risk. They were losing the game and he eventually got moved to the top line wing and ended up setting up the game tying goal and scored the game winning goal. He was always trusted to play D. Even as the years went on. He made the WJC team primarily as a 3C and his job wasn't to create offense, it was to play a sound two way game. His game has always been very polished defensively. I believe it's well known info now but they used to say how he was a very small kid growing up playing on half ice sheets. The only way he would see the puck is if he went out there and got it. He played with the same mentality. He would easily strip pucks off of guys and anything near the boards was his. I don't think I've ever seen him lose more then one or two lose puck battles ever in a single game. It's stupid how good he was with his stick and hand eye coordination. That part of his game still remains the same and it still baffles me just how efficient and effective he is along the boards.
Competitiveness:
We used to call him Mr. Cool. He would go out there and beat the entire team and not bat an eye. Kind of like Toews, he has a very calm personality. You would never see him slam the door or break a stick or yell in frustration. He was always respectful of coaches and teammates but on the ice, he laid it all out. You can see the effort he gave every shift. He would hold his teammates to the same standards. Talking to the coaching staff and even the players, they all said he was one of the biggest competitors out there, it's just he never showed it. He scored many big goals in clutch moments but even his celebrations were always collected and calculated. Watching him even now, nothing much has changed.
Matthews and Eichel both came from the same programs and believe me, all the hype Eichel earned on the national stage, Matthews had that much more hype amongst us who were involved in the program. Eichel had the cameras and he knew he was a star. Auston went about his way as soon as the game/ practice was over. He never stuck around to do interviews or talk up his future plans. When Auston broke his femur, I honestly thought he went from a budding superstar to maybe a good future NHLer. But all he did was come back and blow away the development league and the NCAA circuit. Eichel gives you raw tools that are off the charts. His compete level however, is what I always questioned and even to this day I truly wonder, how badly does he want to win? Auston Matthews raw tools were good. He wasn't the most jacked player though, neither was he murdering any drills. But when it came to playing hockey, he had the IT factor. He was calm, he was cool and he was dominant. He dominated more than Eichel did but you wouldn't know it by just looking at the kid. Always humble, always quiet and always about his business. Matthews and Eichel in my mind are both truly generational talents for American Hockey. I am glad I got to watch the both of them. That said, Eichel is a raw offensive beast, while Matthews gives you the offense and so much more. I truly don't think Matthews got his due. It's just ironic that he landed in Toronto of all places. He has the skill of Kane and the leadership/ professionalism of Toews.
It's really a shame that we aren't going to the Olympics. Watching Matthews/ Eichel as the 1/2 punch would have been an absolute treat to watch. I really hope both end up having long careers and end up as HOF players. Both were legends at the NTDP.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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