Player Discussion Jack Eichel Episode 9 -- The Rise of Impatience

[TehDoak]

There is a way for this to get materially worse. What if...

• Eichel is not traded by season start
• Risto was really as bad as many have suggested
• The team gets better without Eichel or Reinhart, because Risto is not eating big minutes and killing the team
• This also assumes some steps forward from younger players
• They get okay goaltending
• DG is a significant upgrade over RK (better than replacement level coaching?)

If much of that happens and this team overachieves, while JE is still a Sabre, I have to assume that further diminishes his value.

Yea but what if:

• Eichel is not traded but as a professional he plays as the therapy worked
• He has an excellent season hitting his highest ppg of his career
• He looks significantly better defensively without Risto on the back end
• They get excellent goaltending on a resurgence from Mr. Anderson
• DG is able to get Eichel to buy into the system showing his maturity

If much of that happens and this team overachieves, while JE is still a Sabre. I have to assume his value sky rockets.

What is the point in making up these scenarios?

Man, This is fun

What if.....

• Jack retires from Hockey to become a natural gas magnate
• Tries to sell Land to the Pegulas for fracking
• Terry informs him that since he owns the land around it, he owns whats under it
• Kim tells him that she drinks his milkshake
• Terry beats jack to death with a Bowling pin and informs Kevyn that "I'm finiiiiisssshed'

In this scenario, Eichel's trade value is nothing, because he was murdered in a fit of rage by our owner.

 

[Montag DP]

Man, This is fun

What if.....

• Jack retires from Hockey to become a natural gas magnate
• Tries to sell Land to the Pegulas for fracking
• Terry informs him that since he owns the land around it, he owns whats under it
• Kim tells him that she drinks his milkshake
• Terry beats jack to death with a Bowling pin and informs Kevyn that "I'm finiiiiisssshed'

In this scenario, Eichel's trade value is nothing, because he was murdered in a fit of rage by our owner.

This seems like the most likely of the three scenarios.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Is there an award for the number of times you trade Eichel using the armchair GM tool on Capfriendly? I think there should be.....

 

[oldgoalie]

Every time this thread gets a new thread entry, I read the title as the "The Rise of Impotence".

 

[TehDoak]

Every time this thread gets a new thread entry, I read the title as the "The Rise of Impotence".

I mean, I wish that was the only problem with the right now. It'd be an easy fix.

 

[joshjull]

My non controversial opinion on the return remains that it will be solid but unspectacular.

I’m expecting quantity instead of highest quality. I don’t expect a ROR disaster. But I’m not expecting a stud prospect either. I’m thinking we get some combo of 1 or 2 good prospects, picks and a roster players (or 2) we can flip.

 

[Der Jaeger]

My non controversial opinion on the return remains that it will be solid but unspectacular.

I’m expecting quantity instead of highest quality. I don’t expect a ROR disaster. But I’m not expecting a stud prospect either. I’m thinking we get some combo of 1 or 2 good prospects, picks and a roster players (or 2) we can flip.

I'm also hoping Adams fills some of the team's construction holes. Players like:

Comtois, power forward
Zary, 200 foot center
Valimaki, two way horse of a defender
Lundestrom, 200 foot center

And then a 2022 1st so we can be competitive getting Wright, Savoie, or Lambert.

 

[elchud]

I would bet 100 bucks that Jack Eichel gets traded sometime in September. For a return that we will find disappointing.

 

[joshjull]

I would bet 100 bucks that Jack Eichel gets traded sometime in September. For a return that we will find disappointing.

This forum being disappointed in the return is about as predictable as the sun rising.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I'm also hoping Adams fills some of the team's construction holes. Players like:

Comtois, power forward
Zary, 200 foot center
Valimaki, two way horse of a defender
Lundestrom, 200 foot center

And then a 2022 1st so we can be competitive getting Wright, Savoie, or Lambert.

Geekie is interesting me in this draft especially if we get a pick in the 7-12 range

 

[p0nchik]

My non controversial opinion on the return remains that it will be solid but unspectacular.

I’m expecting quantity instead of highest quality. I don’t expect a ROR disaster. But I’m not expecting a stud prospect either. I’m thinking we get some combo of 1 or 2 good prospects, picks and a roster players (or 2) we can flip.

I just see no benefit to accepting this type of trade.

I understand that having Eichel means him likely pulling a PLD. However, unlike Columbus, who had playoff aspirations, we don't. There is no reason to trade him. We can sustain the negative impact, whatever it is because the only thing we're competing for is Shane Wright. I know that makes Sabres fans sick, but it's the reality of the situation.

I appreciate KA's steadfast and unwavering approach. We either get X for Eichel or he stays. Imagine trading scraps for Draisaitl or Matthews. It just wouldn't happen. Even more so. An analog player like Eichel, who is available, doesn't diminish his value but increases it because there is nothing else like it available.

We're going to be a shitshow with or without Eichel. I'll ride it out before trading him for scraps. While I think KA's ask was a bit high (4 or 5 first round equivalents), I'd settle in the middle, which means nothing less than the value of Zegras, Dry, and a 1st. It doesn't have to be those, but the same value.

If that means waiting until Eichel is healthy, then so be it. If Eichel complies and stops playing games through his agent, then screw it, make these teams pay more.

Tl;dr There is no negative impact to holding him. Our team is bad and we are going to be bad regardless. You can't get worse than where we are (a last place team who has lost Reinhart, Hall, and won't have Eichel). Eichel is our golden ticket. Trading for scraps does the Sabres no good. Trading him for less than market value just for the sake of ridding ourselves of him is a poor strategy, one we've seen from previous GMs.

 

[Jim Bob]

I doubt that this is resolved prior to the start of the season.

With weeks and weeks of potential rehab time being wasted, I don't see any team being willing to give up a significant package only for Eichel to miss a TBD chunk of the season.

This will get uglier once Eichel reports to camp and the showdown over the injury and treatment drags on.

If Eichel is traded before camp, I expect that the Sabres get back one prospect in the JJP-Quinn range of prospects, a camp dump, and a couple of conditional picks based on how many games Eichel is able to play. I just don't see why any team wouldn't hedge their bets with all the questions over Eichel's health.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I doubt that this is resolved prior to the start of the season.

With weeks and weeks of potential rehab time being wasted, I don't see any team being willing to give up a significant package only for Eichel to miss a TBD chunk of the season.

This will get uglier once Eichel reports to camp and the showdown over the injury and treatment drags on.

If Eichel is traded before camp, I expect that the Sabres get back one prospect in the JJP-Quinn range of prospects, a camp dump, and a couple of conditional picks based on how many games Eichel is able to play. I just don't see why any team wouldn't hedge their bets with all the questions over Eichel's health.

If that's the kind of heaping garbage pile of shit that's being offered, I'd be happy just to let Eichel rot right here. Not moving him is better than moving him for trash.

 

[TehDoak]

My non controversial opinion on the return remains that it will be solid but unspectacular.

I’m expecting quantity instead of highest quality. I don’t expect a ROR disaster. But I’m not expecting a stud prospect either. I’m thinking we get some combo of 1 or 2 good prospects, picks and a roster players (or 2) we can flip.

I'm of the same opinion.

A young NHLer, a roster player with some salary, one or two prospects good, not elite prospects, and a 1st. Maybe an extra conditional pick based on games played/team performance.

For example, from Anaheim, I expect a deal like this:

Lundestrom, Rackell, Perrault, 2022 1st (with protection). And that is probably about it.

 

[Jim Bob]

If that's the kind of heaping garbage pile of shit that's being offered, I'd be happy just to let Eichel rot right here. Not moving him is better than moving him for trash.

With Eichel missing a week of the regular season for every week that he doesn't have surgery, I don't get why people would expect offers to be getting better right now.

The only way that I foresee the Sabres getting a good return at this point is if Eichel can play through the injury and Adams lets him know that Eichel needs to play his way out of town by showing other GMs that he is healthy and productive.

If he does need surgery, it's going to be a huge mess until he is healthy again.

 

[Archie Lee]

I just see no benefit to accepting this type of trade.

I understand that having Eichel means him likely pulling a PLD. However, unlike Columbus, who had playoff aspirations, we don't. There is no reason to trade him. We can sustain the negative impact, whatever it is because the only thing we're competing for is Shane Wright. I know that makes Sabres fans sick, but it's the reality of the situation.

I appreciate KA's steadfast and unwavering approach. We either get X for Eichel or he stays. Imagine trading scraps for Draisaitl or Matthews. It just wouldn't happen. Even more so. An analog player like Eichel, who is available, doesn't diminish his value but increases it because there is nothing else like it available.

We're going to be a shitshow with or without Eichel. I'll ride it out before trading him for scraps. While I think KA's ask was a bit high (4 or 5 first round equivalents), I'd settle in the middle, which means nothing less than the value of Zegras, Dry, and a 1st. It doesn't have to be those, but the same value.

If that means waiting until Eichel is healthy, then so be it. If Eichel complies and stops playing games through his agent, then screw it, make these teams pay more.

Tl;dr There is no negative impact to holding him. Our team is bad and we are going to be bad regardless. You can't get worse than where we are (a last place team who has lost Reinhart, Hall, and won't have Eichel). Eichel is our golden ticket. Trading for scraps does the Sabres no good. Trading him for less than market value just for the sake of ridding ourselves of him is a poor strategy, one we've seen from previous GMs.

To the bolded, it would be easier to just say that if you were the GM you would never in a hundred years trade Eichel.

 

[ozpensfan]

Every time this thread gets a new thread entry, I read the title as the "The Rise of Impotence".

Hey me too!

 

[old kummelweck]

No one knows where Eichel is in his recovery plan and we shouldn't assume anything.

 

[joshjull]

I doubt that this is resolved prior to the start of the season.

With weeks and weeks of potential rehab time being wasted, I don't see any team being willing to give up a significant package only for Eichel to miss a TBD chunk of the season.

This will get uglier once Eichel reports to camp and the showdown over the injury and treatment drags on.

If Eichel is traded before camp, I expect that the Sabres get back one prospect in the JJP-Quinn range of prospects, a camp dump, and a couple of conditional picks based on how many games Eichel is able to play. I just don't see why any team wouldn't hedge their bets with all the questions over Eichel's health.

I don’t think it really matters that much to other teams if he comes in Sept/Oct. if the package is heavy on futures. Even if he’s out into Jan. The teams with a playoff shot should be fine. His return would be an enormous boost for the second half of the season. A deadline deal of sorts on steroids. The ones building for the future obviously won’t care.


It’s 5 seasons of team control.

 

[Jim Bob]

No one knows where Eichel is in his recovery plan and we shouldn't assume anything.

His doctor has said that he needs surgery and that no further rest and rehab would change that.

I am assuming that is the case until new news comes out.

If Eichel wants out as badly as he seems to want out and he were healthy, he should be tweeting that every hour on the hour and not just a single emoji.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don’t think it really matters that much to other teams if he comes in Sept/Oct. if the package is heavy on futures. Even if he’s out into Jan. The teams with a playoff shot should be fine. His return would be an enormous boost for the second half of the season. A deadline deal of sorts on steroids. The ones building for the future obviously won’t care.

It’s 5 seasons of team control.

He is out until November/December at a minimum at this point. Plus, there is uncertainty around whether he would be available by then.

And I absolutely believe that is impacting the offers.

 

[joshjull]

His doctor has said that he needs surgery and that no further rest and rehab would change that.

I am assuming that is the case until new news comes out.

If Eichel wants out as badly as he seems to want out and he were healthy, he should be tweeting that every hour on the hour and not just a single emoji.

A surgeon who what’s to expand acceptance of this procedure in professional sports feels Jack needs it. The surgeon the Sabres are consulting on this is one of the pioneers of the procedure and doesn’t feel he needs it.

I get this doesn’t change the basic fact Jack wants this done. But it’s far from clear it’s the best course of action.

 

[joshjull]

He is out until November/December at a minimum at this point. Plus, there is uncertainty around whether he would be available by then.

And I absolutely believe that is impacting the offers.

I said a return sometime in January.

I don’t think it’s mattered all that much. It seems things are the same as they’ve been from the start. Teams don’t want to pay what Adams is asking for. That was the case before the draft. Nothing will change until either Adams lowers the ask or teams are willing to pay the price.

 

[Jim Bob]

A surgeon who what’s to expand acceptance of this procedure in professional sports feels Jack needs it. The surgeon the Sabres are consulting on this is one of the pioneers of the procedure and doesn’t feel he needs it.

I get this doesn’t change the basic fact Jack wants this done. But it’s far from clear it’s the best course of action.

We have not heard from the Sabres team doctor. Everyone is assuming what Cappuccino's take might be without ever hearing a single word from him.

I think the Sabres know he likely needs surgery. But, they want to pass the decision on to the next team. That's why Team Eichel said that they haven't heard anything from the Sabres medical team since the 12 weeks of rest and rehab passed without the issue resolving itself.

 

[Jim Bob]

I said a return sometime in January.

I don’t think it’s mattered all that much. It seems things are the same as they’ve been from the start. Teams don’t want to pay what Adams is asking for. That was the case before the draft. Nothing will change until either Adams lowers the ask or teams are willing to pay the price.

And I believe that a big factor in what teams are offering is impacted by Eichel's health situation. The situation dragging on and on is not helping improve the offers.

But if Eichel shows up for camp and is cleared to play, I bet the offers get better.