Prospect Info: Ives Devils Day One Draft Review

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
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Brooklyn, NY
You are talking as if this is the first time in draft history a large, mobile dman with a cannon of a shot already playing pro minutes got "OVeRdrAFTeD".

A guy like this goes higher than the "experts" expect all the time. Also, he was going in the 1st or the first 3 picks of the 2nd. Don't believe me? Fine. If the above isn't persuasive enough, just take a look at what CBJ did (hot start influencing draft position).

This isn't nearly the reach some people are making it out to be and it is VERY possible he actually was their BPA. This is clearly a guy the Devs wanted or they would have traded back or taken a forward.

You present a very sound argument.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
To all the people disputing me on this thread, I have a tough time arguing as I may have over-speculated. Some great counter-points were presented.

To me, if I have one complaint about the draft it's that I believe if Sanderson or Drysdale fell to #7 it would have changed the #20 pick. I think this is a fair complaint. I am a big believer in "best available player", and I cannot believe that if the Devils went into the #20 pick with Sanderson and Mercer in the fold instead of Holtz and Mercer, that they would still have taken Mukhamadullin here.

The converse argument would be the Kevin Lowe run Edmonton teams of the 2010s -- who took the highest-upside scoring forward every year, when critics said they should have taken a defenseman or two somewhere in their recurrent mix of high draft picks.

Ultimately, I'm not unhappy with the draft. Though it would be tough for me to argue Holtz as the "best available player" at #7 -- he's certainly in the conversation and quite possibly the best pure goal-scorer in the 2020 class. Mercer for me at #18 was a home run -- both the "best available player" and filling a Devils need for a power forward with top-6 skills. And Mukhamadullin -- though not my ideal, I have to say that early in the draft process, I had him right outside my Top 10 overall. So, it's not like this is a player lacking talent or upside.

So, thanks for all the well-thought out and eloquent counterpoints. Part of doing what I do means being sticking your neck out and being wrong -- a whole lot -- and I hope you all will still continue to trust my analyses if I am wrong on this, as well.
 

Spoiled Bratt

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
4,819
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Okay, I just got home and I had a ton of messages and questions regarding the Devils draft which I felt I needed a thread in order to address,

7) RW Alexander Holtz
I can't dislike this pick. Holtz has the most are goal-scoring upside of any player in the 2020 draft. His shot is ridiculous, and his overall game -- while not superlative -- is certainly very good. He's going to be a player who contributes a bit to the team in every aspect -- two-way play, physicality, passing, puckhandling -- while being an absolute goal-scoring force.

However, I do not feel he was the right pick at #7 overall. Why not? Because it just so happened to be a draft where top-line scoring RWs were the most heavily available commodity. To me, it's bad asset management. There was only one Marco Rossi in the draft and only one Cole Perfetti in the draft, and the Devils went for a kid who a very comparable player was taken one pick later (Jack Quinn), a player at the same position with more line-driving ability was taken 6 picks later (Seth Jarvis), and a similar player with even more upside was taken 20 picks later (Jacob Perreault). The problem with taking Holtz was not Holtz at all -- he's surely deserving of being the #7 pick -- but rather the fact that the best available player at #18 and #20 both turned out to be comparative players at the same position. I feel the Devils showed a bit of myopia by not taking a Rossi or Perfetti here.

Ultimately however, my biggest concern with Holtz at #7 was that it would negatively affect the Devils pick at #18 or #20. At #18, this did not come to fruition. At #20, it did.

In the end, Holtz was a solid pick. Either Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier will greatly benefit from a sniping RW with the requisite talent to skate with them and the finishing ability to be a 40+ goal scorer at the NHL level. He just might not have been the best pick in terms of overall strategy and asset management.

18) RW/C Dawson Mercer
Our best pick of the round. Disregarding the fact that they took a RW 11 picks earlier, the Devils took the clear-cut best player available, a player who would have been considered a great pick if, say, Nashville had taken him at #11 overall. Mercer is a consummate, two-way power winger with off-the-charts IQ, character and compete level who also is a legitimate dual threat offensive talent with hands which are absolutely elite. He's a dynamic talent in every respect except for skating, where he is above average but certainly could use some improvements. However, the rest of Mercer's game is so flawless that I literally cannot see him NOT becoming an impact NHL-er. I've been lauding this kid forever, he's just the kind of player you win with.

20) LD Shakir Mukhamadullin
Okay, I'm going to theorize. I think the Devils really wanted Drysdale or Sanderson at #7 and just missed out. Then, I think the Devils really thought they would get Schneider at #20 and then the Rangers traded with Calgary to get him and left the Devils with their pants down. Instead of taking the "best available player" -- clearly Perreault, but with Khusnutdinov and Greig and Mysak not far behind -- they went for the highest D left on their draft board.

Why was this a bad pick? Well, if the Devils had strategized better, they could have traded down, acquired more assets, and still gotten Mukhamadullin. Washington gave up the #80 pick to move up from #24 to #22. I would have gladly taken that pick to move down to #24 and take Mukhamadullin there. Let's face it, there was little risk another team would take him between #20-#23. I feel it was a bit of a panic move to take Mukhamadullin at #20.

That being said, I'm willing to look at the optimistic side. To me, Mukhamadullin has the third-most upside of any LD in the 2020 draft after only Sanderson (gone at #5) and Poirier (a disaster defensively). Mukhamadullin has the best shot of any D in the 2020 draft and he's 6'3 and skates extremely well. He's pretty physical and good with the puck when he's on his game. So, Mukhamadullin is far from a disaster at #20 -- he's just bad asset management at #20. You want a disaster? If the Devils took Cormier or Wallinder at #20 -- that's a disaster. Though routinely ranked higher than Mukhamadullin, Cormier has Will Butcher-like upside with more risk, while Wallinder grades out as "poor" in shooting, hands, decision-making, physicality, defensive play, puck management, etc etc etc. Mukhamadullin -- with all of the questions raised by a troublesome draft-eligible season -- was a guy who entered my 2020 draft rankings in the top 15 overall because of his tremendous upside. But again, I would have preferred to have traded down to get him and also gained some more assets in the process. To me, it's proof that the Devils did not have a solid contingency plan after Schneider went off the board.

Conclusion
I know Devils fans will be very unhappy with missing out on Drysdale, Sanderson, Rossi and Perfetti -- then missing out on guys like Perreault, Gunler, Greig, Khusnutdinov and Mysak. However, it's important to realize that the Devils likely have created a strength at RW for the next decade out of thin air while adding a nice, high-upside lottery ticket at LD. Do I think the draft could have gone better with a more experienced management team who strategized more comprehensively for the draft? Yes, I do. I think NJ got caught with their pants down with players who unexpectedly rose and fell, and if they knew who would be available at 18 & 20 they would not have taken Holtz at 7. But do I think the Devils gained three players with tremendous upside who could be part of a burgeoning franchise core going forward? Yes, I do.

As you know, I respect your opinion and your analysis are always appreciated but I have to disagree on several points you brought up in your post.

Alexander Holtz is THE best sniping forward in this draft. There was several guys that were close seconds but they never surpassed Holtz in the rankings, giving us the best of the bunch at a position of need that complements perfectly the future of this franchise in Hughes and Hischier.

As much as I liked Rossi, we were probably the team that saw him the most since we had multiple prospects playing for the 67’s. He’ll be a great player, don’t get me wrong but if he was labeled to be Brayden Point 2.0, Yzerman would’ve snatched him up, the Sens would’ve picked him over Sanderson since he was playing in their backyard and Buffalo would’ve picked him over Quinn. He’s also one of the oldest players in the draft if I’m not mistaken and certain GM’s/scouts feel that the room for growth has plateaued. Cole Perfetti dropped to 10th and that’s exactly where I had him. His hockey IQ is amazing but he didn’t check as many boxes as Holtz did and that’s why he went before both players.

Regarding Mercer, you and I have seen eye to eye on this kid since the start and couldn’t be happier with our pick at #18.

Now, for pick #20, I wanted to take a flyer on Hendricks Lapierre but Fitzgerald and Castron took it one step further with Shak! This kid is doing what no one has done at his age in the 2nd best league in the world. Kids his age rarely get any playing time in the KHL and he’s being utilized as a regular, which is very very impressive. The amount of love that Romanov is getting from the hockey world is sky high and we got a player that’s bigger, stronger, faster and has a better shot. One can just think how good he’ll be in 2 years, since Romanov is 2 years older.

As for trading down to land Shak later on, it’s a gamble because someone like the Caps could’ve traded up to pick him, since they like drafting Russians and possibly missing out on our sleeper for an added 3rd would’ve been a colossal mistake. If he was our guy at #20, the right decision was made. No need to gamble for an extra 3rd round pick.

BTW, I don’t think they panicked at all since they had what, 6 months to come up with every, single, possible scenario. If anything, they were highly prepared and they knew before drafting Holtz at #7 that they were drafting Shak at #20, unless someone in their top #10 was still on the board.

With that said, thanks again for all the hard work you do for our board... keep up the great work!
 
Last edited:

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
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Ocean County
To all the people disputing me on this thread, I have a tough time arguing as I may have over-speculated. Some great counter-points were presented.

To me, if I have one complaint about the draft it's that I believe if Sanderson or Drysdale fell to #7 it would have changed the #20 pick. I think this is a fair complaint. I am a big believer in "best available player", and I cannot believe that if the Devils went into the #20 pick with Sanderson and Mercer in the fold instead of Holtz and Mercer, that they would still have taken Mukhamadullin here.

The converse argument would be the Kevin Lowe run Edmonton teams of the 2010s -- who took the highest-upside scoring forward every year, when critics said they should have taken a defenseman or two somewhere in their recurrent mix of high draft picks.

Ultimately, I'm not unhappy with the draft. Though it would be tough for me to argue Holtz as the "best available player" at #7 -- he's certainly in the conversation and quite possibly the best pure goal-scorer in the 2020 class. Mercer for me at #18 was a home run -- both the "best available player" and filling a Devils need for a power forward with top-6 skills. And Mukhamadullin -- though not my ideal, I have to say that early in the draft process, I had him right outside my Top 10 overall. So, it's not like this is a player lacking talent or upside.

So, thanks for all the well-thought out and eloquent counterpoints. Part of doing what I do means being sticking your neck out and being wrong -- a whole lot -- and I hope you all will still continue to trust my analyses if I am wrong on this, as well.
I gotta admit it... I look forward to your prospect write ups a lot more than I do some "professionals". Keep it up.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
As you know, I respect your opinion and your analysis are always appreciated but I have to disagree on several points you brought up in your post.

Alexander Holtz is THE best sniping forward in this draft. There was several guys that were close seconds but they never surpassed Holtz in the rankings, giving us the best of the bunch at a position of need that complements perfectly the future of this franchise in Hughes and Hischier.

As much as I liked Rossi, we were probably the team that saw him the most since we had multiple prospects playing for the 67’s. He’ll be a great player, don’t get me wrong but if he was labeled to be Brayden Point 2.0, Yzerman would’ve snatched him up, the Sens would’ve picked him over Sanderson since he was playing in their backyard and Buffalo would’ve picked him over Quinn. He’s also one of the oldest players in the draft if I’m not mistaken and certain GM’s/scouts feel that the room for growth has plateaued. Cole Perfetti dropped to 10th and that’s exactly where I had him. His hockey IQ is amazing but he didn’t check as many boxes as Holtz did and that’s why he went before both players.

Regarding Mercer, you and I have seen eye to eye on this kid since the start and couldn’t be happier with our pick at #18.

Now, for pick #20, I wanted to take a flyer on Hendricks Lapierre but Fitzgerald and Castron took it one step further with Shak! This kid is doing what no one has done at his age in the 2nd best league in the world. Kids his age rarely get any playing time in the KHL and he’s being utilized as a regular, which is very very impressive. The amount of love that Romanov is getting from the hockey world is sky high and we got a player that’s bigger, stronger, faster and has a better shot. One can just think how good he’ll be in 2 years, since Romanov is 2 years older.

As for trading down to land Shak later on, it’s a gamble because someone like the Caps could’ve traded up to pick him, since they like drafting Russians and possibly missing out on our sleeper for an added 3rd would’ve been a colossal mistake. If he was our guy at #20, the right decision was made. No need to gamble for an extra 3rd round pick.

BTW, I don’t think they panicked at all since they had what, 6 months to come up with every, single, possible scenario. If anything, they were highly prepared and they knew before drafting Holtz at #7 that they were drafting Shak at #20, unless someone in their top #10 was still on the board.

Great take, and I love the optimism.
 

Cheddabombs

Status Quo
Mar 13, 2012
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To all the people disputing me on this thread, I have a tough time arguing as I may have over-speculated. Some great counter-points were presented.

To me, if I have one complaint about the draft it's that I believe if Sanderson or Drysdale fell to #7 it would have changed the #20 pick. I think this is a fair complaint. I am a big believer in "best available player", and I cannot believe that if the Devils went into the #20 pick with Sanderson and Mercer in the fold instead of Holtz and Mercer, that they would still have taken Mukhamadullin here.

The converse argument would be the Kevin Lowe run Edmonton teams of the 2010s -- who took the highest-upside scoring forward every year, when critics said they should have taken a defenseman or two somewhere in their recurrent mix of high draft picks.

Ultimately, I'm not unhappy with the draft. Though it would be tough for me to argue Holtz as the "best available player" at #7 -- he's certainly in the conversation and quite possibly the best pure goal-scorer in the 2020 class. Mercer for me at #18 was a home run -- both the "best available player" and filling a Devils need for a power forward with top-6 skills. And Mukhamadullin -- though not my ideal, I have to say that early in the draft process, I had him right outside my Top 10 overall. So, it's not like this is a player lacking talent or upside.

So, thanks for all the well-thought out and eloquent counterpoints. Part of doing what I do means being sticking your neck out and being wrong -- a whole lot -- and I hope you all will still continue to trust my analyses if I am wrong on this, as well.

Part of the fun is that this is all still guess work to a degree and projected players is very difficult. I think it's very interesting how there are so many different perspectives and people see different things in players that others might not. Like I've seen quite a few arguments against Rossi in that he might not be as good as some project at the next level - do I agree with that? Not really but we'll see if those concerns are legit in the future.

Another great part of this year's draft is we don't need to wait to see some of these guys in action, both Holtz and Muk play tomorrow and I'll likely try to watch both games.
 
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Edmonton East

BUT the ADvaNCEd STatS...
Nov 25, 2007
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To all the people disputing me on this thread, I have a tough time arguing as I may have over-speculated. Some great counter-points were presented.

To me, if I have one complaint about the draft it's that I believe if Sanderson or Drysdale fell to #7 it would have changed the #20 pick. I think this is a fair complaint. I am a big believer in "best available player", and I cannot believe that if the Devils went into the #20 pick with Sanderson and Mercer in the fold instead of Holtz and Mercer, that they would still have taken Mukhamadullin here.

The converse argument would be the Kevin Lowe run Edmonton teams of the 2010s -- who took the highest-upside scoring forward every year, when critics said they should have taken a defenseman or two somewhere in their recurrent mix of high draft picks.

Ultimately, I'm not unhappy with the draft. Though it would be tough for me to argue Holtz as the "best available player" at #7 -- he's certainly in the conversation and quite possibly the best pure goal-scorer in the 2020 class. Mercer for me at #18 was a home run -- both the "best available player" and filling a Devils need for a power forward with top-6 skills. And Mukhamadullin -- though not my ideal, I have to say that early in the draft process, I had him right outside my Top 10 overall. So, it's not like this is a player lacking talent or upside.

So, thanks for all the well-thought out and eloquent counterpoints. Part of doing what I do means being sticking your neck out and being wrong -- a whole lot -- and I hope you all will still continue to trust my analyses if I am wrong on this, as well.
Fair. This has been much better than the Hughes debate last year.

Also, you ended up being right about where Sanderson would go. I didn't think he'd reach top 5...I still don't see the top pairing potential others do. Still a good prospect to me...just not a top 5 guy.
 
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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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So its Holtz, as a Djurgården fan im both exited and little scared. Watching JJ bust caused a bit of a trauma. But im optimistic that Holtz will do great things for our Devils. He's really good at finding open spots around the circles and his shot is a rocket
I wouldn't call Josefson a bust, but he was a big disappointment. He still managed to play over 300 NHL games but just peaked as a 4th liner in the league. Most players picked deeper in the first round don't even make the NHL, contrary to popular perception.
 

Edmonton East

BUT the ADvaNCEd STatS...
Nov 25, 2007
6,491
2,447
So its Holtz, as a Djurgården fan im both exited and little scared. Watching JJ bust caused a bit of a trauma. But im optimistic that Holtz will do great things for our Devils. He's really good at finding open spots around the circles and his shot is a rocket
His floor is a 20-20 guy. His shot is too incredible at that age to not put up 20g+ in the future.

Players with this shooting ability at that age busting as a high-ish pick are very, very rare.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
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Brooklyn, NY
Fair. This has been much better than the Hughes debate last year.

Also, you ended up being right about where Sanderson would go. I didn't think he'd reach top 5...I still don't see the top pairing potential others do. Still a good prospect to me...just not a top 5 guy.

I called a bunch of stuff correctly this year, I suppose. I did a lot better than the guys at the Athletic and ESPN, haha. Who else called Mercer to the Devils at #18?
 

JrFischer54

Registered User
Apr 4, 2017
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This kid got a weird name. So honest question


Who is the best person on a team sport that has a weird name like his?
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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I called a bunch of stuff correctly this year, I suppose. I did a lot better than the guys at the Athletic and ESPN, haha. Who else called Mercer to the Devils at #18?

upload_2020-10-7_12-30-34.gif
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,544
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So its Holtz, as a Djurgården fan im both exited and little scared. Watching JJ bust caused a bit of a trauma. But im optimistic that Holtz will do great things for our Devils. He's really good at finding open spots around the circles and his shot is a rocket
Just reading the scouting reports it sounds like they are two very different players. JJ was a smooth skating "2 way" center, but as it turns out was completely lost as a point producer in the NHL. We won't know how Holtz's game will translate to the NHL, but a sniping winger is about as far away as you can get as a fwd relative to Jacob.
 
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PKs Broken Stick

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Oct 9, 2008
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I just hope in 5 years this doesn't turn into a Zacha vs Barzal scenario bc I really wanted Barzal then and I wanted Rossi now.

I don't think it will be a zacha vs barzal in the sense that Zacha is pretty much doing nothing. It may become the case where we lost out on the better player though...time will tell.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,544
11,813
To all the people disputing me on this thread, I have a tough time arguing as I may have over-speculated. Some great counter-points were presented.

To me, if I have one complaint about the draft it's that I believe if Sanderson or Drysdale fell to #7 it would have changed the #20 pick. I think this is a fair complaint. I am a big believer in "best available player", and I cannot believe that if the Devils went into the #20 pick with Sanderson and Mercer in the fold instead of Holtz and Mercer, that they would still have taken Mukhamadullin here.

The converse argument would be the Kevin Lowe run Edmonton teams of the 2010s -- who took the highest-upside scoring forward every year, when critics said they should have taken a defenseman or two somewhere in their recurrent mix of high draft picks.

Ultimately, I'm not unhappy with the draft. Though it would be tough for me to argue Holtz as the "best available player" at #7 -- he's certainly in the conversation and quite possibly the best pure goal-scorer in the 2020 class. Mercer for me at #18 was a home run -- both the "best available player" and filling a Devils need for a power forward with top-6 skills. And Mukhamadullin -- though not my ideal, I have to say that early in the draft process, I had him right outside my Top 10 overall. So, it's not like this is a player lacking talent or upside.

So, thanks for all the well-thought out and eloquent counterpoints. Part of doing what I do means being sticking your neck out and being wrong -- a whole lot -- and I hope you all will still continue to trust my analyses if I am wrong on this, as well.
I get that your setting yourself up as a product and thus don't want to offend your clientele, but it is the nature of these boards to roll up the sleeves and hash it out.

I wouldn't take the opposing views as anything but a positive, I tend to ignore posters whose opinions I don't value.
 
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