Prospect Info: Ives Devils Day One Draft Review

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
Okay, I just got home and I had a ton of messages and questions regarding the Devils draft which I felt I needed a thread in order to address,

7) RW Alexander Holtz
I can't dislike this pick. Holtz has the most are goal-scoring upside of any player in the 2020 draft. His shot is ridiculous, and his overall game -- while not superlative -- is certainly very good. He's going to be a player who contributes a bit to the team in every aspect -- two-way play, physicality, passing, puckhandling -- while being an absolute goal-scoring force.

However, I do not feel he was the right pick at #7 overall. Why not? Because it just so happened to be a draft where top-line scoring RWs were the most heavily available commodity. To me, it's bad asset management. There was only one Marco Rossi in the draft and only one Cole Perfetti in the draft, and the Devils went for a kid who a very comparable player was taken one pick later (Jack Quinn), a player at the same position with more line-driving ability was taken 6 picks later (Seth Jarvis), and a similar player with even more upside was taken 20 picks later (Jacob Perreault). The problem with taking Holtz was not Holtz at all -- he's surely deserving of being the #7 pick -- but rather the fact that the best available player at #18 and #20 both turned out to be comparative players at the same position. I feel the Devils showed a bit of myopia by not taking a Rossi or Perfetti here.

Ultimately however, my biggest concern with Holtz at #7 was that it would negatively affect the Devils pick at #18 or #20. At #18, this did not come to fruition. At #20, it did.

In the end, Holtz was a solid pick. Either Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier will greatly benefit from a sniping RW with the requisite talent to skate with them and the finishing ability to be a 40+ goal scorer at the NHL level. He just might not have been the best pick in terms of overall strategy and asset management.

18) RW/C Dawson Mercer
Our best pick of the round. Disregarding the fact that they took a RW 11 picks earlier, the Devils took the clear-cut best player available, a player who would have been considered a great pick if, say, Nashville had taken him at #11 overall. Mercer is a consummate, two-way power winger with off-the-charts IQ, character and compete level who also is a legitimate dual threat offensive talent with hands which are absolutely elite. He's a dynamic talent in every respect except for skating, where he is above average but certainly could use some improvements. However, the rest of Mercer's game is so flawless that I literally cannot see him NOT becoming an impact NHL-er. I've been lauding this kid forever, he's just the kind of player you win with.

20) LD Shakir Mukhamadullin
Okay, I'm going to theorize. I think the Devils really wanted Drysdale or Sanderson at #7 and just missed out. Then, I think the Devils really thought they would get Schneider at #20 and then the Rangers traded with Calgary to get him and left the Devils with their pants down. Instead of taking the "best available player" -- clearly Perreault, but with Khusnutdinov and Greig and Mysak not far behind -- they went for the highest D left on their draft board.

Why was this a bad pick? Well, if the Devils had strategized better, they could have traded down, acquired more assets, and still gotten Mukhamadullin. Washington gave up the #80 pick to move up from #24 to #22. I would have gladly taken that pick to move down to #24 and take Mukhamadullin there. Let's face it, there was little risk another team would take him between #20-#23. I feel it was a bit of a panic move to take Mukhamadullin at #20.

That being said, I'm willing to look at the optimistic side. To me, Mukhamadullin has the third-most upside of any LD in the 2020 draft after only Sanderson (gone at #5) and Poirier (a disaster defensively). Mukhamadullin has the best shot of any D in the 2020 draft and he's 6'3 and skates extremely well. He's pretty physical and good with the puck when he's on his game. So, Mukhamadullin is far from a disaster at #20 -- he's just bad asset management at #20. You want a disaster? If the Devils took Cormier or Wallinder at #20 -- that's a disaster. Though routinely ranked higher than Mukhamadullin, Cormier has Will Butcher-like upside with more risk, while Wallinder grades out as "poor" in shooting, hands, decision-making, physicality, defensive play, puck management, etc etc etc. Mukhamadullin -- with all of the questions raised by a troublesome draft-eligible season -- was a guy who entered my 2020 draft rankings in the top 15 overall because of his tremendous upside. But again, I would have preferred to have traded down to get him and also gained some more assets in the process. To me, it's proof that the Devils did not have a solid contingency plan after Schneider went off the board.

Conclusion
I know Devils fans will be very unhappy with missing out on Drysdale, Sanderson, Rossi and Perfetti -- then missing out on guys like Perreault, Gunler, Greig, Khusnutdinov and Mysak. However, it's important to realize that the Devils likely have created a strength at RW for the next decade out of thin air while adding a nice, high-upside lottery ticket at LD. Do I think the draft could have gone better with a more experienced management team who strategized more comprehensively for the draft? Yes, I do. I think NJ got caught with their pants down with players who unexpectedly rose and fell, and if they knew who would be available at 18 & 20 they would not have taken Holtz at 7. But do I think the Devils gained three players with tremendous upside who could be part of a burgeoning franchise core going forward? Yes, I do.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
Good read overall, even if I don't agree with everything here.

I'm not unhappy at all though, so please don't speak for me by generalizing with "Devils fans".

Fitz contradicted a few of your points of speculation in his media scrum as well by the way, by stating that they didn't have Schneider as their pick and that they were in discussions to trade up and down but nothing materialized that worked.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
Good read overall, even if I don't agree with everything here.

I'm not unhappy at all though, so please don't speak for me by generalizing with "Devils fans".

Fitz contradicted a few of your points of speculation in his media scrum as well by the way, by stating that they didn't have Schneider as their pick and that they were in discussions to trade up and down but nothing materialized that worked.

I'm not an insider, so I'm not certain exactly what the nuances were, but I think the Devils clearly did not achieve what they planned and panicked a bit. Their draft certainly lacked strategy.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
I'm not an insider, so I'm not certain exactly what the nuances were, but I think the Devils clearly did not achieve what they planned and panicked a bit. Their draft certainly lacked strategy.
Well this is quite the claim. While I respect your opinion on prospects, you'd have to have known exactly what their strategy and internal list was to be making claims like this.
 

Blackjack

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
18,163
14,970
keyjhboardd +bro]ke
Visit site
Good read overall, even if I don't agree with everything here.

I'm not unhappy at all though, so please don't speak for me by generalizing with "Devils fans".

Fitz contradicted a few of your points of speculation in his media scrum as well by the way, by stating that they didn't have Schneider as their pick and that they were in discussions to trade up and down but nothing materialized that worked.

Did he say that? I didn't see it and I think I would have caught it.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
Well this is quite the claim. While I respect your opinion on prospects, you'd have to have known exactly what their strategy and internal list was to be making claims like this.

You are correct in calling me out for this.

However, a team like Calgary traded down twice and got a guy they likely targeted in Connor Zary. The Devils did not trade down from #20 and took a guy few thought would be taken in the first round with Mukhamadullin. My question is simply: if Washington is obviously trying to trade up from #24 and shopping the #80 pick as sweetener -- why not trade down from #20, get that #80 pick, and still get Mukhamadullin?

Look, I fully respect Fitzgerald. But the draft is a high pressure event. You need to make quick and crucial decisions, and this is Fitzgerald's first draft. I don't think it's a disaster, but I think mistakes were made which can be learned from in the future.
 
Last edited:

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
Especially when Fitz is on record saying this wasn't the case.

He could be lying, but it is hard to prove that.
If he was lying, why would he be so specific about it? He could have answered the questions he was asked in a much more vague way. Instead he answered questions about Holtz, Mercer, and Mukhamadullin that they had all 3 of them very high on their internal list.

Did he say that? I didn't see it and I think I would have caught it.
Yes, he was asked directly about it in his media scrum at about 9:38 if the Rangers picked "changed their plans", and he said "no, not at all".
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,431
75,974
New Jersey, Exit 16E
If they wanted Rossi, they would have taken him. Its a player they were certainly super familiar with.

There isn't any reason why they would panic because the D were taken (which was always a big possibility) and skip on Rossi for Holtz in a frenzy.

They took Holtz because he was at the top of their board of the remaining guys.

Perfetti dropped quite a few spots so there is something that spooked a lot of GMs about him.

Quinn went before Rossi despite some claiming Rossi was a locked top 5 and Quinn would be outside the top 10.

We simply don't know what the internal boards look like or what the teams scouts are seeing.
 

Blackjack

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
18,163
14,970
keyjhboardd +bro]ke
Visit site
If he was lying, why would he be so specific about it? He could have answered the questions he was asked in a much more vague way. Instead he answered questions about Holtz, Mercer, and Mukhamadullin that they had all 3 of them very high on their internal list.


Yes, he was asked directly about it in his media scrum at about 9:38 if the Rangers picked "changed their plans", and he said "no, not at all".

That doesn't mean they didn't have Schneider as their pick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StevenToddIves

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,431
75,974
New Jersey, Exit 16E
That doesn't mean they didn't have Schneider as their pick.

It doesn't mean they just threw their board out the window because he went at 19, which was always possible trade or no trade.

If they preferred the forwards available at 20, they would have taken one of them.

It doesn't mean it will work out of course, but this idea they panicked and threw their draft board away because a kid they wanted went at 19 doesn't make sense.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
You are correct in calling me out for this.

However, a team like Calgary traded down twice and got a guy they likely targeted in Connor Zary. The Devils did not trade down from #20 and took a guy few thought would be taken in the first round with Mukhamadullin. My question is simply: if Washington is obviously trying to trade up from #24 and hoping the #80 pick as sweetener -- why not trade down from #20, get that #80 pick, and still get Mukhamadullin?

Look, I fully respect Fitzgerald. But the draft is a high pressure event. You need to make quick and crucial decisions, and this is Fitzgerald's first draft. I don't think it's a disaster, but I think mistakes were made which can be learned from in the future.
Trading doesn't work this way. He said in his media scrum they tried to make trades and they didn't happen. Calgary managed to trade down, but there were very few trades made and they were likely made with teams who wanted a very specific player at a specific spot.

With the way he was talking about Mukhamadullin, I'd say it's very clear they had this guy way higher on their list than anyone thought. He described the scouts going to watch Amirov, but instead coming back raving about Mukhamadullin so they started scouting him closely.
 

Forge

Blissfully Mediocre
Jul 4, 2018
11,725
13,766
Vegas
I agree with the premise about the Holtz pick and I actually espoused the notion that I wouldn't take him because I could get a "lite" version with similar potential at 18 or 20 when I went on my Quinn V Holtz soliloquy in the last mock draft thread. Because of that ability, I wanted someone with a more unique skillset. But Rossi was the only higher ranked player on my board, and I'm not going to get to grumpy about that. I get it.

That being said, I feel so good about him as a player that I just can't even dislike the pick even a little. If it impacted the 20th overall pick, then that is on them and they need to not do that. There's no reason to pass on a guy like Foerster or Perrreault or whomever just because they do have a similar skillset in some regards. I think he's a lock for 30/60.

I'm glad you're higher on Mercer than me, it just makes me feel good. This is exactly where I had him pegged in my rankings (#18), so obviously, I think the value is good. I had guys left who were higher, but it's a minor quibble. Its weird, because I thought I was down on him, but I think I was higher on him than goose and only slightly lower on him than you. I think the type of player he is should be an excellent fit for what we could use.

Here are the things I can say about Muk to put look on the bright side. We didn't draft Askarov at #7. It's pick #20, he doesn't have to be super duper awesome for the pick to be a success. I had Grans in my first round so I can't be completely apoplectic by the selection of Muk. He's off to a dynamite start in the KHL.
 
Last edited:

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
That doesn't mean they didn't have Schneider as their pick.
The implication being made in this thread, and elsewhere on the board, is that because Schneider was picked they panicked and grabbed Mukhamadullin, which would mean a change in plans. It's possible that Schneider was higher on their list and they would have taken him, but it's absurd to claim without evidence that they passed on forwards they had ranked higher on their list because Schneider was taken.
 

R8Devs

1-5-6-12
Nov 20, 2010
21,089
4,463
New Jersey
The implication being made in this thread, and elsewhere on the board, is that because Schneider was picked they panicked and grabbed Mukhamadullin, which would mean a change in plans. It's possible that Schneider was higher on their list and they would have taken him, but it's absurd to claim without evidence that they passed on forwards they had ranked higher on their list because Schneider was taken.
I think some people are projecting how they felt onto how the Devils felt and basing their opinions on that. Whether or not you like the picks or not they've had months to build out their list
 

Forge

Blissfully Mediocre
Jul 4, 2018
11,725
13,766
Vegas
If they wanted Rossi, they would have taken him. Its a player they were certainly super familiar with.

I'm actually on board with this. I said elsewhere when someone brought it up that I was okay with them passing on him because there is no way that they didn't have enough information on him to make that decision and feel good about it. I don't know a lot of things, but I have to feel good about thinking that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StevenToddIves

Ol Dirty Bstrd

Registered User
Nov 25, 2007
1,784
396
Holtz is a nice player, but I would not have passed over Rossi or Perfetti to take him. Fitz mentioned he wanted to take the guy with the highest upside which I don’t feel he did at this spot (that would be Perfetti imo).

Mercer was a no brainer pick. Not sold on his offensive upside but I love the way he plays. Someone was bound to fall to 18 and I’m glad we were the beneficiary.

Mukhamadullin was obviously a controversial pick. BPA was clearly a forward here, and as has been discussed it seems like poor asset management not to trade down. Now that we’ve picked him I will try to be supportive since he has some promising tools and is off to a great start in his KHL season.
 

RememberTheName

Conductor of the Schmid Bandwagon
Jan 5, 2016
7,385
5,137
On Earth
Holtz is a nice player, but I would not have passed over Rossi or Perfetti to take him. Fitz mentioned he wanted to take the guy with the highest upside which I don’t feel he did at this spot (that would be Perfetti imo).

Mercer was a no brainer pick. Not sold on his offensive upside but I love the way he plays. Someone was bound to fall to 18 and I’m glad we were the beneficiary.

Mukhamadullin was obviously a controversial pick. BPA was clearly a forward here, and as has been discussed it seems like poor asset management not to trade down. Now that we’ve picked him I will try to be supportive since he has some promising tools and is off to a great start in his KHL season.
And, in terms of upside for Muk, he definitely has it. This dude could be a Shea Weber-lite player if he can figure it all out.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
10,386
24,637
Brooklyn, NY
It doesn't mean they just threw their board out the window because he went at 19, which was always possible trade or no trade.

If they preferred the forwards available at 20, they would have taken one of them.

It doesn't mean it will work out of course, but this idea they panicked and threw their draft board away because a kid they wanted went at 19 doesn't make sense.

My criticism is that the Devils did not take their highest ranked player at #20, but rather their highest ranked defenseman, since they had already taken two forwards. I will stand by that criticism, since it would be very difficult to convince anyone Mukhamadullin was at the top of the board at #20 with some of the forwards who were still out there.
 

Blackjack

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
18,163
14,970
keyjhboardd +bro]ke
Visit site
The implication being made in this thread, and elsewhere on the board, is that because Schneider was picked they panicked and grabbed Mukhamadullin, which would mean a change in plans. It's possible that Schneider was higher on their list and they would have taken him, but it's absurd to claim without evidence that they passed on forwards they had ranked higher on their list because Schneider was taken.

Watching the Fitz video, he was pretty adamant that they relied on their board, I think at one point he even described using the eraser on the whiteboard as each guy went. So I agree with you here.

It did feel uncomfortable that the Rangers traded in front of us and took the last consensus (or near-consensus) 1st round D, and then we jumped off the board for another D. But I believe Fitz here. I do also think it's likely that he had Muk above Schneider.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,422
45,309
My criticism is that the Devils did not take their highest ranked player at #20, but rather their highest ranked defenseman, since they had already taken two forwards. I will stand by that criticism, since it would be very difficult to convince anyone Mukhamadullin was at the top of the board at #20 with some of the forwards who were still out there.
How do you know he wasn't their highest ranked player? He's clearly not your highest ranked player at that spot, but that doesn't mean he wasn't their highest ranked player. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, and in this case that is you claiming they didn't take their highest ranked player.
 

Xirik

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
8,061
11,511
Alberta
Steve I was wondering if you have a Player Comparable for Muk? TSN says Zadorov but to me the draft notes people have on him he reminds me of Adam Larsson. Depending on how he develops and if he keeps his current points spree up he could be the Adam Larsson we wished we gotten or the Larsson who we had just before we traded him. if either happen id be happy with a Adam Larsson clone for 20th overall
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad