Why? Because he wouldn't wear a rainbow jersey??
Rumor: Ivan Provorov on the trade block
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GKJ
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KingPuckChoo
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After tonight's fiasco I would not be surprised at all to see teams back away from him and they should. His value is less than it was before tonight's game that for sure.
ScoreZeGoals
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GKJ
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Also remember we have Chuck Fletcher who is all too willing to let other GMs take him by the balls and thank them for it.
Scintillating10
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Provorov certainly has fallen off. I remember in the Bubble Flyer fans saying he was untouchable
Barnaby
Registered User
Oh stop… because he didn’t want to wear a rainbow jersey due to his religion / personal beliefs? It’s not like he was involved in a hate crime. He just sat out the warm up. If any teams evaluation of him as a player/person was effected by that then they are a joke of a franchise.
Is this for real?? Like the sunk cost on Myers and OEL wasn't enough of a lesson???
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
Like it or not, hockey organizations are part of a local community, and those communities have people represented by the rainbow jersey. Any player who can’t bring himself to even wearing a specifically colored jersey in warmup out of a personal belief that sees that part of the franchise‘s community as lesser or eternally sinful humans is unquestionably creating problems for the organization. It’s dumb to pretend this isn’t a real issue, it’s just a matter of just how willing each organization is to try to manage these issues or risking alienating a part of their fanbase or even co-workers next to or on the ice (which includes all those in favor of these small symbols).
Barnaby
Registered User
I disagree.
I think this is a non issue. He didn’t wear a rainbow jersey in warm up. He didn’t blast anyone. He didn’t stand out by coming out in a different jersey. He wasn’t disrespectful or hateful.
How many people in the community do you think really feel “represented by the rainbow jersey.” He didn’t say anyone was “lesser or eternally sinful.” He said he felt uncomfortable due to his religious beliefs. I don’t see how that alienates people. The small percentage of people who will actually care are being so tolerant that they become intolerant of his views. Kiss the ring or get canceled. I guarantee you there are players on the ice who feel uncomfortable with it, but they just go along to avoid the aggravation. Is that really fair to them? You should be giving the guy credit for being respectful of others and not demeaning anyone while also standing up for his beliefs.
I’ll leave it at that. This isn’t “that kind of thread.”
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
That’s on you, then. What do you think those religious beliefs are, precisely, that make it untenable to wear a specifically colored jersey? I was being quite diplomatic in phrasing it as him seeing these people as sinners for merely living their lives.
Yes, no tolerance for intolerance, that being the only way to go has long been established. But obviously he hasn’t been canceled, he’s just getting to hear people’s opinion of his actions.
They are acting as employees and getting paid for it. Feel free to give workers and employees vastly more rights across the board, but at the moment, there’s not much unfair about being asked to wear a special jersey for a few minutes on company time.
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Why wouldn't they just come up with an excuse to sit him for the game rather then create this shit storm and nuke his value? Like everyone is getting sick...just say he was sick and sit him out pride night and nobody ever knows Provorovs shitty values.
Barnaby
Registered User
A lot of these guys are raised in different countries, different cultures, different financial situations, and under different religions. You’re not supposed to be telling people what they can and can’t think or believe. That’s not fair or right. People are not, nor should they be, lemmings. If the guy went off on some crazy tirade I’d agree with you. Him being true to his beliefs and just respectfully refraining from wearing a rainbow jersey is fine to me.
If this guy was a Muslim from Saudi Arabia would you be saying the same thing or would you be saying we need to respect his religious beliefs?
What if that jersey was a religious garb instead of a rainbow? Is that the same thing? Where I work, we aren’t supposed to wear anything political or religious to avoid polarizing people. I’m glad you’re 100% on board but not everyone is. I think there’s a right way and a wrong way to deal with that. The right way is stepping aside and being respectful of others. The wrong way would be going on a tirade in an interview or on social media.
You don’t see the obvious correlation between this and religion? It’s as clear as day.
BLNY
Registered User
With at least 2 pages being a back and forth about the obvious, I think it's important to note two things.
1. If Provorov hadn't already alienated himself in the room, he did last night by not participating in a team activity. It doesn't matter what the activity is or when. It's tantamount to bailing on your team mates and says you're not willing to do what it takes for the guy sitting next to you.
2. Tortorella is, among other things, a hypocrite. When there was talk of players under his charge a few years back kneeling during anthems he threatened to scratch anyone that did, but Provorov is just being true to himself.
1. If Provorov hadn't already alienated himself in the room, he did last night by not participating in a team activity. It doesn't matter what the activity is or when. It's tantamount to bailing on your team mates and says you're not willing to do what it takes for the guy sitting next to you.
2. Tortorella is, among other things, a hypocrite. When there was talk of players under his charge a few years back kneeling during anthems he threatened to scratch anyone that did, but Provorov is just being true to himself.
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
That’s obviously wrong. Societies put up rules they see fit to live among each other, be it through constitutions, laws, codes or mere social customs. You are absolutely right and probably even encouraged to talk to people when their beliefs are antithetical to any of the above. They can continue to think whatever they like, but when their thoughts turn to actions, like in this case in the form of him denying to participate in a company event, it’s entirely natural that there are consequences, whether they’re legally or socially enforced.
Yes. On other platforms I’ve been vocal about specifically SA, Quatar, Tukey and other places where intolerant religious ideologies are being utilized to augment human suffering.
I don’t think he’s being respectful. I think he’s selectively enforcing rules from his religion in a way that very clearly communicates that he views people represented by those jerseys as somewhat lesser/flawed.
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
dunno if you know this but the Flyers are not a well-run company right now
I agree with you throughout however I would say that Provorovs actions were more inaction. I also think as opposed to selectively enforcing rules, he is selectively not following rules based on his beliefs or interpretation of his religion. Subtly change to what you said above.
I believe one can say something like...."everyone can choose to live their life as they see fit" while also choosing to not overtly support or engage in support. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
I support anyone in the LQBTQ+ community and would happily march in pride parades or wear pride colors as I have done in the past. But if I chose to just be spectator and never engage in being an ally, that doesn't necessarily make me a bad person or with a corrupt moral view.
Such a complicated issue
This instance went though our media cycle for about a month and there was no real consensus or conclusion on the right way to handle it.
If you really want to go down a rabbit hole google Israel Folau. Single best player in International Rugby Union, the McDavid of the sport, and he put up a religious post on his instagram saying gays are going to hell and refused to take it down. This went on for months until his contract was torn up, all sorts of free speach stuff about his right to his religious beleifs VS his right to express them.
It was an absolute shit show and eventually they tore up his contract based entirely on the fact that no organisation could put up with the bad publicity that he brought. Then, the best player in the world, couldn't get another contract because the moment a rumor started that he might sign somewhere a media storm errupted around the team and scared them off. That post ended up ending his multi million dollar carreer
Barnaby
Registered User
Yes and no. They’ll have to answer questions, but I really think it blows over in a week or two. If he went on some tirade I could easily see it becoming a major distraction.
He didn’t want to wear a rainbow shirt.
He made no degrading or negative statement whatsoever. I give him credit for being respectful while sticking to his morals whether I agree with him or not.
Other guys may not like it, but they just fall in lockstep to avoid the aggravation. IP at least showed a little backbone while not demeaning anyone.
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