Blue Jays Discussion: It's the off-season. Stuff might happen. Or it might not.

[Puckstuff]

Get Lindor, LeMahieu, Bauer and Pillar.

Trade Grichcuk, Orelvis Martinez, Hiraldo, Moreno, Pardhino for Lindor
Sign LaMahieu 4 years 100 million
Sign Bauer 5 years 150 million
Sign Pillar to a cheap 1 year contract for defensive depth

1. CF - Biggio
2. 3B - LeMahieu
3. 2B - Bichette
4. SS - Lindor
5. RF - Hernandez
6. LF - Gurriel Jr.
7. DH -Guerrero Jr.
8. 1B - Tellez
9. C - Kirk

1. Bauer
2. Ryu
3. Pearson
4. Ray
5. Stripling

1. Romano
2. Merryweather
3. Dolis
4. Cole
5. Bass
6. Hatch
7. Borucki
8. Kay

-- Gurriel Jr.———Biggio——Hernandez
LeMahieu——Lindor——Bichette——Tellez
————————Kirk —————DH - Gurrerro Jr.

- Biggio/Bichette can probably learn CF, we can also develop Austin Martin at CF.
- Kirk - some questions at catcher defensively over the long term but we still have Danny Jansen.
- Hernandez is the only real glaring whole defensively, hoping he can improve and be league average but if not we have Biggio who can move to RF.
- If Biggio/Bichette can't play CF we have Pillar to CF, Biggio to RF and Hernandez joins Tellez/Gurrero at 1B/DH and eventually someone moved for pitching (if Hernandez doesn’t work defensively in RF, eventually one of Tellez, Vlad or Hernandez will be moved)
- CF is the big question but we have internal options to try and make something work.

 

[Woodman19]

I would be trying to flip Guerrero for Lindor and then swing Bitchette over to 2B while leaving 3B for Groshans. That would open up the infield for plus defense across the diamond.

 

[Puckstuff]

I would be trying to flip Guerrero for Lindor and then swing Bitchette over to 2B while leaving 3B for Groshans. That would open up the infield for plus defense across the diamond.

I thought about it. I didn't think people would be ready for that conversation

 

[Woodman19]

I thought about it. I didn't think people would be ready for that conversation

Pretty sure they would be pretty happy once they see Lindor.

 

[hockeywiz542]

For Blue Jays prospect Mack Mueller, home is wherever the diamond is | The Star

After moving to Texas with his family to start high school, Mack went on to attend Rice, Cisco Junior College and Baylor in search of the best post-secondary fit. He also transitioned as a ballplayer in that stretch, from a pitcher to an outfielder.

At Cisco he thrashed junior college pitching and flashed raw power (15 home runs in 51 games). It attracted eyes. Max Semler, the Blue Jays’ Dallas-based area scout, looked at Mack’s six-foot-three frame and saw big-league potential.

“He was obviously big, but you could project that he’d be awfully strong, which he has (become),” Semler says. “It was all about the size and strength that you could see this young man was going to have.”

The scout was indeed proved correct. By his senior year at Baylor, Mack had filled out to 225 pounds and posted a .561 slugging percentage.

“I think that if he achieves what I believe he can we’re looking at possibly Bubba Trammell-type player and production,” Semler says, referencing the former outfielder who played in the 2000 World Series with the New York Mets and hit 25 homers and 92 RBIs the following year for the Padres, his best statistical season. “With (Mack’s) work habits, approach and strength … (we could see) possibly better production.”

When Toronto called two days after the June draft to sign him, Mack took all of 30 seconds to make his decision.

“Not a lot of thought needed,” he says.

So a new venture begins in the Blue Jays organization. If everything goes well, Mack will have many more stops to make on his way to Toronto, with minor-league teams dotting the map in places like Dunedin, Fla., and Manchester, N.H.

That pesky “where are you from?” question will keep popping up. The answer won’t matter. What matters is where he’s been.

“Once (you’re) on the field,” Mack says, “you speak the same language.”

 

[landy92mack29]

The Jays have payroll room for 1 big fish long term, not 3. Also with the SS FA class next year there's no way they should move a key future piece unless Lindor does a sign and trade. Even then SS isn't the position to target it's SP, CF or 3B. Go after Bauer hard and if the A's are willing to move Chapman that's the player to use prospect capital on.

 

[Kurtz]

I would be trying to flip Guerrero for Lindor and then swing Bitchette over to 2B while leaving 3B for Groshans. That would open up the infield for plus defense across the diamond.

Yea, that's insane. It shouldn't cost you anywhere near Vladdy to get Lindor, especially in this economic environment.

 

[kb]

Yea, that's insane. It shouldn't cost you anywhere near Vladdy to get Lindor, especially in this economic environment.

Agreed. No one is moving potential core pieces with multiple years of low salary control for 1 year of control on a player who will be close to $20 million, especially in this economic climate.

 

[Puckstuff]

The Jays have payroll room for 1 big fish long term, not 3.

Aha, yeah 3 won't happen (sorry over fantasizing here) I don't actually believe that will happen, but there could be money for two big players not just 1 if we move out Roark/Grichcuk. Moving out half of Roark's salary and Grichcuk could give us as much as 50 million to play with. At least this is the chatter around some of the main stream guys is that there is money to spend with such a low payroll.

Even then SS isn't the position to target it's SP, CF or 3B. Go after Bauer hard and if the A's are willing to move Chapman that's the player to use prospect capital on.

I do think think SP is the biggest area of need and then that is followed by SS/CF/3B depending on how guys develop. Some may be inclined to believe Bichette projects as a 2B long term and Martin/Groshans in the the medium term to play at 3B so then spending on a SS makes a ton of sense and with the Jays rumoured to go after Simmons at the deadline it makes me think they would seriously consider spending on a SS in addition to SP... so they would elect to put resources into SP/SS and then develop guys or go for cheaper options at 3B/CF.

RF - Biggio
2B - Bichette
SS - Lindor
DH - Hernandez
1B - Vlad/Tellez
LF - Gurriel Jr.
CF - Grichcuk (stop gap?) / Martin ? Pillar or someone cheap if they move Grich?
3B - Groshans/Martin/Shaw
C - Jansen/Kirk

 

[xxOCZMSxx]

Anyone thinking Roark or ray’s salaries are going to inhibit the teams cash flow, need to remember that the jays apparently offered $300m+ for cole last offseason. The money is there, they just aren’t splashing it around yet. Be patient. It’s going to be a fun offseason.

 

[Discoverer]

The Jays have payroll room for 1 big fish long term, not 3. Also with the SS FA class next year there's no way they should move a key future piece unless Lindor does a sign and trade. Even then SS isn't the position to target it's SP, CF or 3B. Go after Bauer hard and if the A's are willing to move Chapman that's the player to use prospect capital on.

Depends... are they going to have a payroll similar to last year's or are they ramping it up like they normally do when they're ready to contend?

 

[trellaine201]

I have a suspicion the Jays are frustrated with Vlady and questionable commitment to conditioning etc. I know I know he’s young etc but from a team standpoint.

 

[landy92mack29]

Depends... are they going to have a payroll similar to last year's or are they ramping it up like they normally do when they're ready to contend?

Oh I expect them to start spending more but not on long term deals other than 1 big fish(Bauer/Lindor/etc). Instead bring in vets like Turner/Brantley/Morton/Paxton/etc on 1-2 year deals to round out the team.

 

[Kurtz]

I have a suspicion the Jays are frustrated with Vlady and questionable commitment to conditioning etc. I know I know he’s young etc but from a team standpoint.

He apologized to the team for being fat after the season and has lost 30 pounds already so it sounds like he's turned the corner on that.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Vladdy for Lindor? Lindor would have to come with an extension for me to even consider that TBH. Even looking at prospect deals, given we have Bo at Short I'm not too anxious to get Lindor as a 1 year rental unless it's a deal you can't say no to. Martin, Groshans and SWR are all untouchables for any rental from my end. We're not there yet, and I don't really loive the idea of shoehorning Bo or Biggio into 3rd base or the outfield. Though if Bo could be a solid defensive center fielder that would intrigue me. Martinez is likely a no as well, and I'd only listen on Manoah because the bust rate of pitching prospects. I just don't see this year as the go for it year.

Lindor with an extension however, my ears are perking up.

 

[Discoverer]

Vlad for Lindor is hilariously bad. Just a really, really terrible idea in every way.

 

[kb]

I have a suspicion the Jays are frustrated with Vlady and questionable commitment to conditioning etc. I know I know he’s young etc but from a team standpoint.

I get the opposite.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

They probably want one of Giminez or Rosario +.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I’m a fan of both the Jays and the Indians, and the Indians will need an outfielder this upcoming season (barring any FA signing). Gurriel or Hernandez would be a preferable person to go back in a Lindor trade. Grichuk will not be the OF in the return because that’s just wasted money on the Indians part. But he will be cheap depending on the condition of the trade (Jays can pre-talk about extension, extend and trade, or just a trade with no prior talks). And the Indians always love pitching.

So that in mind (assuming a straight up trade):

To Indians:
- Gurriel
- lower end pitching prospect not on the Jays MLB roster or expected to be next season but has MLB upside

To Blue Jays:
- Lindor

As a fan of both teams, that’s palatable to me.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Gurriel is a no go for me without an extension in place too. Jays aren't exactly flush with outfielders either, and absolutely nothing coming up in the system to fill any holes they make. Giving up a quality one with tons of control for 1 year of Lindor. I know he's Lindor but it just doesn't make sense. What would our outfield be then? Teoscar, Grichuk and Fisher? Gross.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Gurriel is a no go for me without an extension in place too. Jays aren't exactly flush with outfielders either, and absolutely nothing coming up in the system to fill any holes they make. Giving up a quality one with tons of control for 1 year of Lindor. I know he's Lindor but it just doesn't make sense. What would our outfield be then? Teoscar, Grichuk and Fisher? Gross.

Fair enough. But what if Lindor came with a two year extension (basically the same team control as Gurriel)? Is it more palatable then? The only thing is with an extension it will cost more, unless the Jays can take a cap dump and the Indians don’t really have any of those.

Unfortunately as as Indians fan first, then the Jays, I know Cleveland has to basically go for it for a couple years, then dump and rebuild and repeat. Equating it to NHL players, it’s like choosing between Crosby and Malkin

 

[Canada4Gold]

Fair enough. But what if Lindor came with a two year extension (basically the same team control as Gurriel)? Is it more palatable then? The only thing is with an extension it will cost more, unless the Jays can take a cap dump and the Indians don’t really have any of those.

Unfortunately as as Indians fan first, then the Jays, I know Cleveland has to basically go for it for a couple years, then dump and rebuild and repeat. Equating it to NHL players, it’s like choosing between Crosby and Malkin

I don't see a world where Lindor signs a 2 year extension anywhere. Also Gurriel has 4 more years of control. 3 on his contract and then he's arbitration eligible for 1 more year.

I'd be down on Gurriel+ for Lindor with an extension, but like you said with an extension I think the Indians aim higher.

 

[stickty111]

 

[Discoverer]

Maybe I'm just higher on him than others, but I see Gurriel as roughly a 3 WAR player. Three years of that for $15 million total is worth a LOT.